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Unsolved Triple Murder, North Carolina, 1972


Regi

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In the seventies that would be the starter.

nope. the starter does click but the rapid click is the battery or the battery connection.. and I had a 1974 chevy and replaced the starter...lol

Edited by mbrn30000
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Good question. Maybe the local newspaper is lazy, or it's been so long ago that it's hard to generate very much interest

Authorities have always seemed to be stubborn about giving out info, maybe in hopes of still solving.

But somebody had to tell Investigation ID for it to be in the magazine.

I think it has been established this story has it's own self promoter - aka - Tim Bullard.

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No, Docy, I have to stand with MB, sorry but he's right. I think you might just be reversing your experiences. The bad starters I have gone through will make a low buzzing for a couple of times, then you got nothing.

But re. this topic on a slightly different note, isn't it odd that we have them asking Ginny how the car sounded and not one comment about them asking Troy or what he described happened. The other thing, now you may think I'm off on this one, is that Ginny's response of the "clicking" sounds to me very juvenile. My response at that question at her age would have been more like, "sounded like the battery's bad." At her age I could tell you if it was the starter or the battery. I just get a whiff of a possible non-committal attempt to be vague.

Since they assumed it was the battery wouldn't it have made more sense to have taken a couple minutes (and as we have stated) 1- CALL THE DANG COPS and 2- ask for a jump-start instead of imposing on someone to both potentially put themselves in danger, not to mention trudge out in a snow storm..

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In any case of the car, if the Halls did do this crime, something was wrong with their car in the first place for Mr Duham to have to picked up Ginny. The story of Troy being to sick to pick her up, but then he goes to the library does,nt make sense. Perhaps there was a dispute over asking the parents to give them a car from the lot to use, and the parent refused rising to their anger to go over killing them, and ditching their borrow car. There are many cases of kids killing parents for so much less just out of anger.

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Since they assumed it was the battery wouldn't it have made more sense to have taken a couple minutes (and as we have stated) 1- CALL THE DANG COPS and 2- ask for a jump-start instead of imposing on someone to both potentially put themselves in danger, not to mention trudge out in a snow storm..

the whole story is crazy. the thinking it must be a joke, the keystone cops going over and then getting stuck fleeing the scene. I have said, it's just a stupid enough story to be true. But I think the assumptions the cops made in the first hours, have made this a cold case.

Edited by mbrn30000
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Along and about these 72 pages we have all tossed a lot of theories about. I have to wonder if one of us has actually hit upon what actually happened. :unsure2:

I went back and read through a little more of GoWilkes and there are multiple comments about Ginny and Troy being uncooperative with LE and Ginny as being disconnected from the Durham family

after the murders. I know it could just be gossip but I also think there are times when locals have a good idea of what is happening.

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Along and about these 72 pages we have all tossed a lot of theories about. I have to wonder if one of us has actually hit upon what actually happened. :unsure2:

I went back and read through a little more of GoWilkes and there are multiple comments about Ginny and Troy being uncooperative with LE and Ginny as being disconnected from the Durham family

after the murders. I know it could just be gossip but I also think there are times when locals have a good idea of what is happening.

I do not know how Ginny could ever get over the brutal murder of her Mother, Father and little brother. That would haunt me to the end of my days. I remember this story of two sisters who inherited their fathers bar back decades ago,. they kept the bar running hoping to just sell it one day. one night, one sister was murdered in the bar. The surviving sister closed the bar and never allowed anyone to change a thing from that night, hoping that one day someone would solve the case. http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/2233491-181/suspect-identified-in-36-year-old-napa

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It might make sense if the crime was supposed to go down on the date, regardless of the weather. Or if the weather was taken into account for the crime to go down. It was midweek and during the Olympics, so either bet might be valid.

I did find a tidbit of a local auto person buying up the local "Buick, Pontiac, GMC" dealership in March of 72. It looks likely so far that it's the Durham dealership. So they passed in early Feb, the dealership was sold in March. I'm still trying to get together information that way. A name in it triggered a recall, but I don't want to post it till I find it for sure or not. Now I need to comb back though the whole thread to see if any names turn up or not.

What made me think about this part was overhearing a discussion recently about quarterly dealings. Mid March was a quarterly cut off for a lot of things. This might have absolutely nothing to do with this case, but might have a bearing too.

I was just going back through the thread and these to posts seemed very interesting.

Ashe, I was about to ask you where you were at with the possible horse trading involvement ?? And here, I bumped right into it.

Sorry the I messed it up and the Ashe post I was referring to is below

Edited by Vincennes
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It's exciting to see all of this new activity on this thread after it went really quiet for 3 to 4 months. But at the same time, it is a little bit frustrating to watch people go off on what I consider to be a errant tangent related to the Jimmy. Maybe this is a good example of how crime investigators sometimes get fixated on the wrong items, thinking they are clues, and then get way off the correct path to solving a crime.

Up front here, I will admit that this is only my opinion, but I don't think the Jimmy has any significance at all. That just happens to be what family drove home that night, nothing else to it. I think the killers were already waiting inside the house when the family came home, most likely hiding in the basement. They either walked or were driven to the Durham home, and that's why they took the Jimmy, to make it back to another car.

A couple of pages back in this thread (which was several months ago) I shared some info that I found in a news source from 1972 that sheds a lot of additional light on this case. The source info stated that something else was taken from the house that night, probably from the basement. And in another forum, a poster indicated that Bryce had a safe that was in the basement or built into the underside of a stairwell. For some reason this info fell out of stories about this case in later years. My guess would be the additional item(s) taken that night were something like legal documents, or something similar that could be used to implicate someone in some type of illegal activity. In other words, something that somebody wanted to get into their own hands very badly. This would also go a long way towards explaining the crime scene. The victims were tortured as a means of getting Bryce (who was tortured first) to reveal where the item was. Bobby may have been clueless, but was tortured as additional incentive to try to get Bryce to fess up. And so the ransacked house was not staged, they really pulled out all the drawers looking for whatever the desired item was. Maybe after several minutes of near strangling and near drowning, Bryce finally told them about the safe. And since he knew the intruders, or at least some of them, there was no way they were going to let them live. And the son-in-law probably was an accomplice in helping to plan this out.

There is another thread about this case on a site called websleuths. It's much shorter than this thread, but one person shared the most informative and thoughtful theory I have ever seen related to this case.

Here is a link to the thread, the post I'm referring to is post #9.....

http://www.websleuth...oone-2-Feb-1972

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But Vin, gossip, rumors you would think someone, family, friends or neighbors in the Durham's past, would come forward if they knew of anyone the Durham's might had bad some bad dealings with or grudges against them. Families of the Durhams as the cops most likely believe it was three black men in Troy and Ginny`s story, that came out of no where on a snowy night just to killed them.

Edited by docyabut2
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But Vin, gossip, rumors you would think someone, family, friends or neighbors in the Durham's past, would come forward if they knew of anyone the Durham's might had bad some bad dealings with or grudges against them. Families of the Durhams as the cops most likely believe it was three black men in Troy and Ginny`s story, that came out of no where on a snowy night just to killed them.

they first arrested 4 white men. I think your first statement is true. I think law enforcement was split. Some think the call happened. some think it was made up. Cops that think the call never happened, have to believe Troy is involved. there is no other conclusion. the cops screwed up as we often here, because they follow their bias and not the book. Start with the people closest and work out.

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I feel strongly that - as we've all agreed - there is a lot of information that the public just isn't privy to...

As to why that's the case? My gut tells me - from a 'local' standpoint as I grew up very near here - that the Boone LE were totally caught off guard with this whole situation.. They hadn't ever had to secure a crime scene like this.. Collect evidence.. Investigating a crime of this magnitude.. on this level.. just didn't "happen around here". I think that's one of the reasons the snow storm has been so overly embellished through the years. I feel it's an attempt to mask the obvious ineptitude of the local LE... With that said it was probably most certainly justifiable in the back country of WNC in the 1970's. I'm. It making excuses for their mistakes.. I'm just saying that I know the progression of technology and the mindset of the ppl here.. I think that they made some really poor calls early on In this case and once the SBI converged on Boone.... they were so embarrassed at their mishandling that they actually (probably even unknowingly) threw this case into a "cold case' status very early on.. Someone actually said a much shorter version of this earlier this week.. This case was fast tracked to unsolvable early - very early - in the investigation. I just elaborated on the reasons I feel may have been the cause..

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But Vin, gossip, rumors you would think someone, family, friends or neighbors in the Durham's past, would come forward if they knew of anyone the Durham's might had bad some bad dealings with or grudges against them. Families of the Durhams as the cops most likely believe it was three black men in Troy and Ginny`s story, that came out of no where on a snowy night just to killed them.

Why don't people come forward ? Because who exactly do you go forward to ? The LE, who already know what people know and just aren't acting on it ? A lazy DA who doesn't want to take on a case that make actually take some work and that he might loose in an election year ? How about cases that just might cross county line jurisdictions. ?

I've talked about our local Patty Adkins murder before. They know (and so do locals and people she worked with ) who killed this girl. Sadly, the press didn't continue pushing them, the body was never found (and there is a problem with she was taken from one county and probably killed in another ) So both LE in both counties just walked away. Leaving the perp and hid wife to proudly display the gifts had bought him around his house.

Add to this the mishandling factor that LMom just pointed out above and you've got an unsolved cold case.

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I don't know why I`m so obsessed with this case but the Hall`s were at the scene, there are many cases of kids that kill their parents just out of jealousy.I remember this one case where a couple disguised them selves while their children were at the foot their parents bed, baby sitting their kids and shot the parents just over sibling jealousy to make a cover up

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Vin - I read the post you and ash are talking about.. Idk why but it sent a chill Up my spine. It seemed like it was just too much like a first hand account to me. Even though the poster repeatedly said that it was just their opinion. Idk that was just my gut feeling.

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Vin - I read the post you and ash are talking about.. Idk why but it sent a chill Up my spine. It seemed like it was just too much like a first hand account to me. Even though the poster repeatedly said that it was just their opinion. Idk that was just my gut feeling.

As Vin's posting mentioned "torture". I do think these deaths, were needlessly cruel and slow if you just wanted to kill someone. It does seem there was either a form of retribution or someone was trying to get information out of them first. Was it the location of a safe? or as some suggest incriminating evidence? You also have to wonder if the killer wanted us to think that. The movie "In Cold Blood" had been released a few years before. The 1959 murder of the Clutter family made famous by Truman Capote. You had the Manson murders around that time. Maybe even the murders contained staging for some bizarre reason, or maybe the torture was real and for those other purposes.

I still don't get not calling the cops and then heading over. I cannot understand why they would take that call as a joke. Even if he was unsure of what she said, a mumbled call from a loved one would at least make me think it was a medical emergency.

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Vin - I read the post you and ash are talking about.. Idk why but it sent a chill Up my spine. It seemed like it was just too much like a first hand account to me. Even though the poster repeatedly said that it was just their opinion. Idk that was just my gut feeling.

Interesting observation ~~~~ That never occurred to me but what did occur to me as I read it that it was certainly more of an in depth description of what could have happened than I've ever been able to imagine. I'm thinking that's what Ashe said he felt too when he initially posted it.

Now I'm going to go back to Go Wilkes and see what else that poster brought to the table....

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As Vin's posting mentioned "torture". I do think these deaths, were needlessly cruel and slow if you just wanted to kill someone. It does seem there was either a form of retribution or someone was trying to get information out of them first. Was it the location of a safe? or as some suggest incriminating evidence?

I've always wondered about the "torture" aspect of it too. It seems that both methods employed (strangulation and holding a head underwater) are so up close and personal. Now that's just the psych aspect of it as to the physical aspect. Why and how the drowning ? Why because, as you said, it would only lengthen what they were already accomplishing. The "how" was it torture because the reports say that there was NO water on the floor. How ya goin' to do that and not have that person splash around a bit ??? Why are you going to do it, haul bodies here and there, IF they are too incapacitated to splash a bit ?

Actually I have trouble with the totally dry floor period. If the water was left running the flow in would have to be timed perfectly with what the upper drain could carry out. That just happen by a fluke ? Also, being fully dressed in that position their clothes would be wet quickly and thoroughly at least to the waist and those clothes themselves would create dripped water on the floor. If the floor wasn't wet, it seem to me that they had to have been discovered even before their shirts could be saturated, meaning pretty darn quickly.

I still don't get not calling the cops and then heading over. I cannot understand why they would take that call as a joke. Even if he was unsure of what she said, a mumbled call from a loved one would at least make me think it was a medical emergency.

I think it's easy to dismiss the IMPORTANCE of this because when reading it we already know they did not actually run into the perps still there BUT when you contemplate they would not have known that, Virginia supposedly tells them there are MULTIPLE men involved, it's pretty totally unbelievable.

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I've always wondered about the "torture" aspect of it too. It seems that both methods employed (strangulation and holding a head underwater) are so up close and personal. Now that's just the psych aspect of it as to the physical aspect. Why and how the drowning ? Why because, as you said, it would only lengthen what they were already accomplishing. The "how" was it torture because the reports say that there was NO water on the floor. How ya goin' to do that and not have that person splash around a bit ??? Why are you going to do it, haul bodies here and there, IF they are too incapacitated to splash a bit ?

Actually I have trouble with the totally dry floor period. If the water was left running the flow in would have to be timed perfectly with what the upper drain could carry out. That just happen by a fluke ? Also, being fully dressed in that position their clothes would be wet quickly and thoroughly at least to the waist and those clothes themselves would create dripped water on the floor. If the floor wasn't wet, it seem to me that they had to have been discovered even before their shirts could be saturated, meaning pretty darn quickly.

I think it's easy to dismiss the IMPORTANCE of this because when reading it we already know they did not actually run into the perps still there BUT when you contemplate they would not have known that, Virginia supposedly tells them there are MULTIPLE men involved, it's pretty totally unbelievable.

the first reports said water was overflowing...and then others have said dry. I think this has to be one of the strangest murder scenes I have heard of. I just can't imagine what these people went through in those final minutes.

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the first reports said water was overflowing...and then others have said dry. I think this has to be one of the strangest murder scenes I have heard of. I just can't imagine what these people went through in those final minutes.

It looks to me with the height of that water being what it was that I pretty strongly feel it just had to be overflowing. The reason that the water is not at the actual top of the tub is that their bodies are siphoning it off onto the floor and keeping it just below total fill.

So who began dancing around saying the floor was TOTALLY dry ? I'll have to say here that one of those dry reports came from Whitman. Sorry to say but he strikes me as a vapid politician with more ego thrown in than knowledge. As I said before he was more interested in he had one more opportunity to portray himself as right when he detailed how the phone was disabled. Vague about everything else but detailed on that because he'd been called on the error of the phone call happening. I think he might just be the one LMom pointed out as they type to close the case too early so mistakes couldn't be identified.

Edited by Vincennes
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Again gossip, rumors you would think someone, family, especially Ginny, friends or neighbors in the Durham's past, would come forward if they knew of these three men the Durham's might had bad some bad horse dealings with or grudges against them. Then there`s the unknown finger prints in the Jimmy, did they ever try matching to these known criminals?

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The thing is, there is so much 'guesswork' involved in this case that everyone can come across as 'making things up' - it's a shame that it has been worded that way though as I prefer it to be called 'Theorising what may have happened in light of no other evidence'.

There's no 'guesswork' for me; I interpret what's known and I identified what I found to be a questionable circumstance and I left it at that rather than make-up an excuse in an attempt to explain it away.

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Vincennes - it's a shame to see you go but more of a shame that you have been made you feel you have to? :( For the record - I have read the entire thread and valued everyone's contributions. The thing is, there is so much 'guesswork' involved in this case that everyone can come across as 'making things up' - it's a shame that it has been worded that way though as I prefer it to be called 'Theorising what may have happened in light of no other evidence'.

well I guess you stepped in the mud puddle of judgment and ridicule..LOL. Take care. and don't be afraid to tread. in all fairness, you did put guesswork in quotes..but that is lost on some..lol.

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A poster suggested an idea which still begged the question as to how it was that the victims were even possibly presumed dead... and nobody got it.

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we are all experts at human behavior, we just don't always remember. why do we stare at people acting strangely, and how do we even know they are acting strangely? it's innate. we are the best judge of what is normal human behavior and what is not. The differences we have might be explained by personal experiences, but in reality if you listen to your inner voice and you have average intelligence, you are better than you will ever know. Our limitation here is, we don't know all the facts. Maybe nobody does, but we certainly don't. The fun, if I can use that word, is trying to fill in the gaps, by reasoning or guessing or supposing, it matters not what word I use. that's what we are trying to do. explain this strange case and the strange behavior we have been told has occurred. If I saw my friend, or a family member who I just talked to, slung over a tub with their head in water, I just think my first reaction would be to pull then out. Maybe I wouldn't. Maybe I would run around the house screaming like a banshee, or maybe I would grab mr. smalls gun and go about clearing the house like some cop show. Or maybe I would run down the hill straight to a neighbor. if someone called me and mumbled someone is being beaten in the back room and hung up, I don't think I would take a 20 minute sunday drive to find out if it was a joke. maybe I would laugh like heck and tell my spouse her mother is one strange bird. but I really think I would be frightened. Maybe call a neighbor nearby if I knew one. Or maybe I would dial zero and ask the operator to break in the line. I just remembered something we did back in the 70's. not sure you can now. If a line was busy, you could dial 0 give the number and ask them to verify. the operator would come back and tell you if the line was off the hook, out of service or engaged in a conversation. you could also ask them to break in for an emergency. we did that as kids...yeah I find everyone's behavior suspect. Not because I am a Sherlock holmes but because I am a human.

Edited by mbrn30000
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