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Regi

Unsolved Triple Murder, North Carolina, 1972

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Regi

I guess I'm accustomed to reading inaccuracies because I read right over all that switch-a-roo name stuff...I just went right on by it. I think I knew who they were referring to so it didn't phase me....

Just chewing the cud... Going through articles..

http://news.google.c...&pg=6136,697117

This one says the killers came close to being seen at least twice as the fled in the Jimmy. Twice? TWICE? Grrr, the once is being hard enough to track, what the heck is this at least twice comment?

I think 'twice' is referencing the one witness who actually sighted the Jimmy- in other words, he didn't see the occupants, and then that the trio of Hall, the daughter and Small could have passed them.

Btw, now that I've thought about it, I don't think the 'Jimmy sighting' info was ever released to the media. I don't think it was made public until that agent spoke about it in an interview.

And btw of that, I think that agent missed strong indicators from the profiler's assessment of the crime. He remembered the profiler had concluded that the perp was comfortable at the scene. Now, I think the profiler recognized by the evidence that the perp(s) had to have spent a considerable amount of time at the scene and so that was his conclusion, but the agent seemed perplexed as to how strangers could be comfortable. :-*

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mbrn30000

I guess I'm accustomed to reading inaccuracies because I read right over all that switch-a-roo name stuff...I just went right on by it. I think I knew who they were referring to so it didn't phase me....

I think 'twice' is referencing the one witness who actually sighted the Jimmy- in other words, he didn't see the occupants, and then that the trio of Hall, the daughter and Small could have passed them.

Btw, now that I've thought about it, I don't think the 'Jimmy sighting' info was ever released to the media. I don't think it was made public until that agent spoke about it in an interview.

And btw of that, I think that agent missed strong indicators from the profiler's assessment of the crime. He remembered the profiler had concluded that the perp was comfortable at the scene. Now, I think the profiler recognized by the evidence that the perp(s) had to have spent a considerable amount of time at the scene and so that was his conclusion, but the agent seemed perplexed as to how strangers could be comfortable. :-*

The name ray and troy was confused when a person on that other blog claimed to know Ray and Troy Hall, brothers. So if that poster is truely someone that knows the "hall brothers" and one goes by ray the other troy, then who is Ray Troy Hall referred to by police? I am suspecting that poster might have been an imposter..and might not really know the Hall brothers. I am really beginning to wonder if Cecil was in on it from the beginning. Going to find out more info on this private investigator/mobile park manager, witness to JFK assasination and maybe many other claims to fame.

I do think that old retired investigator misinterpreted "comfortable in the house." he seemed to think it could mean a professional killer might not mind 3 dead people...at least thats how I took his comment. But i take the profiler saying the killer was comfortable in the house meant there was no sense of urgency to leave, no fear of sudden discovery....in other words he knew nobody was going to show up suddenly so they could take the time to strangle and arrange the bodies, stage the scene and drive off in the Jimmy on their own schedule. Seems if a killer caught Virginia on the phone, he would have killed her then and fled. Not make her part of the staging. A stranger would not know who would be popping in, perhaps the daughter and in-law who lives a couple of miles away could stop by at any time.

Edited by mbrn30000

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Regi

I do think that old retired investigator misinterpreted "comfortable in the house." he seemed to think it could mean a professional killer might not mind 3 dead people...at least thats how I took his comment. But i take the profiler saying the killer was comfortable in the house meant there was no sense of urgency to leave, no fear of sudden discovery....in other words he knew nobody was going to show up suddenly so they could take the time to strangle and arrange the bodies, stage the scene and drive off in the Jimmy on their own schedule. Seems if a killer caught Virginia on the phone, he would have killed her then and fled. Not make her part of the staging. A stranger would not know who would be popping in, perhaps the daughter and in-law who lives a couple of miles away could stop by at any time.

Yes, I agree...the profiler probably meant there didn't appear to be any urgency; the entire crime took considerable time, even for more than one perp to accomplish. And that's an excellent point re: Mrs. Durham, yet the perp apparently took additional time to move her body.

The only reason for that particular act has to be that he wanted to be assured she wouldn't survive and so, evidently, that was more important to him at the time than was fleeing the scene.

No, I don't think the perp(s) killed Mrs. Durham, moved her body (and moved it for any other reason) and then fled the scene, primarily because there was staging which occurs after the fact.

Edited by regi
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rashore

I know it takes a salt lick with the whole Ray and Troy thing. Putting too much credence into a forum posters comments and some old journalism. That's why I said it was probably nothing in the first place. But I knew it would bother me if I didn't say anything about it. And it can't hurt to lay it out and get the nod or no way about it.

I looked up this Justin Troy from Georgia that was mentioned to be Troy too. Not much info when you look him up. Justin Troy AKA Troy J. Hall. 62 year old attorney, graduated from John Marshall law school and on the Georgia bar since 1979. Depending on the lookup, he might have relations of Raymond, Josephine, Carmen, Bonnie, and Sheryl. He might or might not be connected with Troy Hall Construction.

I'm not too sure this is our guy.

Something else that's bothering me with reading through articles... The state of the case file itself. There's reports of destruction of a couple dates, 76 comes to the top of my mind though I think there are others. Sometimes the file is being stated as being large, filling a whole drawer in a cabinet or well documented- other times it's described as an empty jacket. It does make me wonder what physically exists now, if it's just paperwork or if there is an evidence box somewhere.

I dunno.. Maybe I'm thinking too hard and chasing my tail about this case at this point.

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mbrn30000

I really want to know more about Cecil Small. I have this image of an old man with tall tales. A wannabe. It does not appear he was a very successful Private Investigator. I searched his name in the Charlotte observer but I am not a member so did not pay for articles. there were references to his claim about JFK. there was an intro to another article about a motel owner in the 80's i think who hired a "gun toting" former cop to clean up his hotel or something. Now cecil was not in that intro, but I wonder if he was the former cop? I don't think he was a former cop, but there was info that he ran for sheriff of that NC county years after the murder. I kind of think he went around telling everyone interesting stories about his life and the adventures he had, but in reality he was never any of those things. He would have known if the hall's had financial issues. It was just after the first of the month, so could the halls late on their rent? Had this become an issue? Did Hall spend many times talking with Small about his inlaws wealth and how they never helped them out...did this lead to a plan to get rich quickly? Ok I am in hollywood now, but i cannot understand the slow drive to the house that night, never thinking to call the police before, the car getting stuck....nothing makes sense as they have told it.

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docyabut2

Yes, I agree...the profiler probably meant there didn't appear to be any urgency; the entire crime took considerable time, even for more than one perp to accomplish. And that's an excellent point re: Mrs. Durham, yet the perp apparently took additional time to move her body.

The only reason for that particular act has to be that he wanted to be assured she wouldn't survive and so, evidently, that was more important to him at the time than was fleeing the scene.

No, I don't think the perp(s) killed Mrs. Durham, moved her body (and moved it for any other reason) and then fled the scene, primarily because there was staging which occurs after the fact.

The time line from the witnesses said the neighbors saw the Jimmy pull in at the home at 9:00 o clock and the other man saw the Jimmy that almost ran his car off the road leave the area and he said he got home about 10:30.

That's just only a little over a hour for the killers to kill these three people and do all they did , it does`nt seem to be enough time. It was said the Durum's came home the husband went up stairs change his clothes and then they prepare something to eat, that must have took some time. Who ever did this it was fast in the murders and in the staging.

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rashore

More chasing my own tail, lol.

The food thing bothers me. If the book reported the coroners report accurately... Bryce and Virginia had eaten hours earlier by the state of digestion the food was in. Now, that does not mean they could not be eating the same thing for dinner when they got home. But I also have to wonder if the food being out was part of the staging, like the living room being sacked but a glass of water and plate of food is sitting undisturbed. Make it look like they took the time to set up and eat dinner before the crime, confuse the time frame some more.

Considering the reports that the whole house was sacked, makes me almost wonder if the perps were in the house prior to 9 PM, and the Durhams came home to the crime already in progress. It can take a while to toss a whole house, even if it's staged. But that does not make sense either, because I can't imagine the family would have calmly walked in and taken their shoes off if the house was tossed when they entered.

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Regi

Well, the food's been referred to as "snacks", and my impression is that the son had been snacking in front of the TV.

The food scenario together with the fact that Mr. Durham's coat and some type of shoes he was believed to have worn were located upstairs indicates to me that when the Durham's arrived home, they each went about usual routines which they surely wouldn't have if they were confronted with anything out of the ordinary.

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rashore

Well, the food's been referred to as "snacks", and my impression is that the son had been snacking in front of the TV.

The food scenario together with the fact that Mr. Durham's coat and some type of shoes he was believed to have worn were located upstairs indicates to me that when the Durham's arrived home, they each went about usual routines which they surely wouldn't have if they were confronted with anything out of the ordinary.

Yeah, the chicken is on the plate in the living room, and looks like it was on the kitchen table as well. It seems like they came home and went about their business like ordinary. That's part of why it don't make sense that the perps would have been there before they got home- but with the whole staging stuff and how much time that could take I do wonder if they actually did their ordinary business when they got home- or if that too was staged, and the perps set it up to make it look like they went about their business. Fudge up the timeline more.

It's extremely far fetched, I know. But perhaps the perps were done tossing the place and awaiting the Durhams. Durhams come home and are immediately set upon. After they are in the tub, perps finish the staging with things like wiping down floors, setting out food, putting shoes where they belong. Make it look like more time was spent normally by the Durhams after 9 than was really spent.

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mbrn30000

I have looked over the timeline, though there are conflicts between newspapers on some facts. I guess we can agree some sloppy reporting is involved, given the changing names and such. Here it goes.

First of all here are three distances to remember. I could not find an address for the trailer park but it was described in an article as just past the baptist church, near the A&P on the left. Well the boone pharmacy was next to the A&P and is supposedly still there. looking at the map, on W King (also 421) across from ASU there is a boone pharmacy attached to a whole food like store that very well could have been an A&P back then. A&P is no longer in Boone. And there is a First Baptist church just up from there heading towards the crimes scene. So if you were driving away from the crime Scene, you would pass the First Baptist church, the next cross is Cherry and the A&P should be at that intersection if I am right, making the trailer park somewhere on Cherry around 3.5 miles from 187 Clyde Townsend Road the murder scene approaching 105 bypass from the North using those directions. the Jimmy was abandoned about 1.4 miles from the crime scene heading South down 105 bypass in the opposite direction of 421 then making left on 105 towards boone, and then left on Popular grove where it was abandoned. the current map shows that you can reach the trailer park quite easily in each direction, but heading from W. King (421) to the Durham House appears shorter today. Not sure of the state of the roads then. So it appears in good driving weather the Halls lived less than 10 mins away. I don't know which direction they drove, but from the 421 would be the shortest today. The halls lived very close to the university and not far and in somewhat the direction of the abandoned Jimmy.

5:00 PM Troy goes to Library. No info on what Ginny is doing or Mr. Small

8pm-9pm Troy is seen taking a break at Library

9PM Durhams are seen arriving home by neighbors

9:55 Troy is reported arriving home by Ginny to watch Olympics

10:10 TV goes on blink, Troy/Ginny Turn on music

10:15 Troy receives call from Virginia whispering 3 black men are beating Bryce and Bobby phone goes dead

10:16ish Troy asked Ginny if it could be joke and redials. Phone is busy

10:18 Troy cannot start car goes to Cecil Small's trailer two doors down

10:20 Jimmy nearly runs car off road racing down 105 by-pass before turning left towards Boone on 105 (abandoned less than half mile further up 105 on cross street Popular Grove

10:20 The trio sets out in bad weather for the 3.5 trek to save the Durhams

10:35 They report arriving, looking in windows, go thru garage with gun drawn and find the Durhams

10:37 they run back to the car, down the hill and while leaving run it into the ditch. They walk to nearby apt complex for help

10:50 Call is logged by Police about the murders from either the Halls or Small.

So many problems with this timeline and the behavior of the rescue party. I think there was a fourth person, maybe related to Hall or Small participating who left a car at Popular, and who drove the Jimmy off to this spot. Would have been the first side street off the main road 105 on the left. The Halls could have approached from the south on 105 rather than the closer 421 approach on the north to obscure their path. but if they were not part of it, it would make sense they would not have seen the Jimmy if they approached from the North.

The investigator Whitman reports asking Ginny what the car did when they tried to start it and said it made a clicking sound. But it sounds like nobody ever checked it. WHy would you be relying on this as the determining factor of what was wrong with Hall's car. Whitman at the time was SBI but still years later never referred to any mechanics view. It appears the police focused in on the alledged 3 black men theory for several days and by then Hall lawyered up. Does not sound like they got the three alone to let them tell their stories of how they came to be there that night. I wonder if they even checked out to see if the tv was on the blink. More questions than answers. Well this is my contribution today.

Edited by mbrn30000
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docyabut2

I have looked over the timeline, though there are conflicts between newspapers on some facts. I guess we can agree some sloppy reporting is involved, given the changing names and such. Here it goes.

First of all here are three distances to remember. I could not find an address for the trailer park but it was described in an article as just past the baptist church, near the A&P on the left. Well the boone pharmacy was next to the A&P and is supposedly still there. looking at the map, on W King (also 421) across from ASU there is a boone pharmacy attached to a whole food like store that very well could have been an A&P back then. A&P is no longer in Boone. And there is a First Baptist church just up from there heading towards the crimes scene. So if you were driving away from the crime Scene, you would pass the First Baptist church, the next cross is Cherry and the A&P should be at that intersection if I am right, making the trailer park somewhere on Cherry around 3.5 miles from 187 Clyde Townsend Road the murder scene approaching 105 bypass from the North using those directions. the Jimmy was abandoned about 1.4 miles from the crime scene heading South down 105 bypass in the opposite direction of 421 then making left on 105 towards boone, and then left on Popular grove where it was abandoned. the current map shows that you can reach the trailer park quite easily in each direction, but heading from W. King (421) to the Durham House appears shorter today. Not sure of the state of the roads then. So it appears in good driving weather the Halls lived less than 10 mins away. I don't know which direction they drove, but from the 421 would be the shortest today. The halls lived very close to the university and not far and in somewhat the direction of the abandoned Jimmy.

5:00 PM Troy goes to Library. No info on what Ginny is doing or Mr. Small

8pm-9pm Troy is seen taking a break at Library

9PM Durhams are seen arriving home by neighbors

9:55 Troy is reported arriving home by Ginny to watch Olympics

10:10 TV goes on blink, Troy/Ginny Turn on music

10:15 Troy receives call from Virginia whispering 3 black men are beating Bryce and Bobby phone goes dead

10:16ish Troy asked Ginny if it could be joke and redials. Phone is busy

10:18 Troy cannot start car goes to Cecil Small's trailer two doors down

10:20 Jimmy nearly runs car off road racing down 105 by-pass before turning left towards Boone on 105 (abandoned less than half mile further up 105 on cross street Popular Grove

10:20 The trio sets out in bad weather for the 3.5 trek to save the Durhams

10:35 They report arriving, looking in windows, go thru garage with gun drawn and find the Durhams

10:37 they run back to the car, down the hill and while leaving run it into the ditch. They walk to nearby apt complex for help

10:50 Call is logged by Police about the murders from either the Halls or Small.

So many problems with this timeline and the behavior of the rescue party. I think there was a fourth person, maybe related to Hall or Small participating who left a car at Popular, and who drove the Jimmy off to this spot. Would have been the first side street off the main road 105 on the left. The Halls could have approached from the south on 105 rather than the closer 421 approach on the north to obscure their path. but if they were not part of it, it would make sense they would not have seen the Jimmy if they approached from the North.

The investigator Whitman reports asking Ginny what the car did when they tried to start it and said it made a clicking sound. But it sounds like nobody ever checked it. WHy would you be relying on this as the determining factor of what was wrong with Hall's car. Whitman at the time was SBI but still years later never referred to any mechanics view. It appears the police focused in on the alledged 3 black men theory for several days and by then Hall lawyered up. Does not sound like they got the three alone to let them tell their stories of how they came to be there that night. I wonder if they even checked out to see if the tv was on the blink. More questions than answers. Well this is my contribution today.

Troy got the phone call at 10;15 and the Jimmy was seen racing away at 10;20? there no way Mrs Durham could have made that call and been alive .I read some where its takes at least twenty minutes for a person to stop breathing in a strangulation or a drowning.

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mbrn30000

Troy got the phone call at 10;15 and the Jimmy was seen racing away at 10;20? there no way Mrs Durham could have made that call and been alive .I read some where its takes at least twenty minutes for a person to stop breathing in a strangulation or a drowning.

That is an estimate based on the person who saw it at the intersection of 105 and the 105 bypass got home at 10:30. The witness turned right and the Jimmy turned left. The Jimmy was dumped at the first left after the turn. I can only estimate the 10:20. I guess you could push it towards 10:30 and of course the witness may have gotten home a little later than 10:30.

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Regi

Bryce and Virginia had eaten hours earlier by the state of digestion the food was in. Now, that does not mean they could not be eating the same thing for dinner when they got home. But I also have to wonder if the food being out was part of the staging, like the living room being sacked but a glass of water and plate of food is sitting undisturbed.

It sounds to me like there was food leftover from the meal Bryce and Virginia had eaten sometime earlier that day and somehow those leftovers were there in the home so that the son was later able to snack on that same meal.

The Halls could have approached from the south on 105 rather than the closer 421 approach on the north to obscure their path. but if they were not part of it, it would make sense they would not have seen the Jimmy if they approached from the North.

They apparently approached from the south.

From that first link of articles Rashore posted: "Small said they saw no cars on the one mile stretch of icy road as they rushed to the house. Since it had only been about 20 minutes since Mrs. Durham had called, Small believes he just missed seeing the killers."

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Regi

That is an estimate based on the person who saw it at the intersection of 105 and the 105 bypass got home at 10:30. The witness turned right and the Jimmy turned left. The Jimmy was dumped at the first left after the turn. I can only estimate the 10:20. I guess you could push it towards 10:30 and of course the witness may have gotten home a little later than 10:30.

It'd be nice to know where that witness lived, right?!

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mbrn30000

It'd be nice to know where that witness lived, right?!

it would be nice. I did make my scenario based on my interpretations of the current maps of boone. Its possible the by-pass did not intersect 421 back then, but why would they call it a by pass? I am also assuming the trailer park is off the 421 which is pure interpretation of what one person said. It would make sense giving w king is where the university is. It could be they lived south of there making the southern route the only logical way. One investigator said in one of the anniversay articles, he had interviewed Ginny and she even was hypnotized by the SBI and he was convinced she knew nothing about who did it. I don't know if that is just some of the same blindness that lead those investigators way back when, or what. Nobody gave Troy such a clean bill of health. Is it possible that Troy, perhaps Cecil and others did this? The phone call was a signal all was done or the car is dumped, now set the alibi into motion? Or could there be some grudge against this family that made some third party do this? Seems strange that the investigators referred to the person who was going to buy the buick dealership with Mr. Durham as an unknown. If you buy a dealership you have to not only make the deal with the owner but submit names and such to Buick for approval since its their franchise contract. You could not do that without a name, address, financials for all partners. Even if it fell apart before a bonifide offer, the previous owner and others surely would have heard the name of Durham's potential partner. Seems odd. Perhaps the link is there. Maybe that person felt frozen out. BTW i looked at real estate transactions at that time and I cannot fine where the Durhams bought that house, so were they renters? Also Small bought some lots in July 1972 but purchased with loan from bank...does not sound like he came into money. I found no records that house was sold by Ginny or the estate. It seems house might have been built in 1967 and the only ownership records for that address was a rent agreement some years later. The owners bought lots of land in that area so I assume one of the legal descriptions covered what eventually was Clyde Townsend RD. Also the man that sold most of those parcels appears to be a Mr. and Mrs. Clyde Townsend back in the 50's and 60's...go figure. Big fish in a little pond. Lots of unknowns here.

Edited by mbrn30000
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Regi

Oh sure, the bypass was there...as in your timeline, the Jimmy took that bypass and then made a left where it's a mere block to where it was ditched on Popular Grove. (1.8 miles from the Durham's.)

About the trailer park, there's info. in an anniversary article that it was behind where the Wal-Mart was currently located and if it's at the same location as it is today, then that's at 200 Watauga Village Drive. (4.6 miles from the Durham's.)

Yes, to get to the Durham's from there, the most direct route would be to take the bypass from the south.

Re: Jenny, that hypnosis thing is lame, but it makes me wonder what they encouraged her to remember that she apparently couldn't/didn't...

About the dealership partner, I know they would have made an effort to identify him because Sheriff Carroll called this a "grudge killing" fairly early on.

I think they probably did investigate him and didn't name him because they'd ruled him out.

Edited by regi
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mbrn30000

Oh sure, the bypass was there...as in your timeline, the Jimmy took that bypass and then made a left where it's a mere block to where it was ditched on Popular Grove. (1.8 miles from the Durham's.)

About the trailer park, there's info. in an anniversary article that it was behind where the Wal-Mart was currently located and if it's at the same location as it is today, then that's at 200 Watauga Village Drive. (4.6 miles from the Durham's.)

Yes, to get to the Durham's from there, the most direct route would be to take the bypass from the south.

Re: Jenny, that hypnosis thing is lame, but it makes me wonder what they encouraged her to remember that she apparently couldn't/didn't...

About the dealership partner, I know they would have made an effort to identify him because Sheriff Carroll called this a "grudge killing" fairly early on.

I think they probably did investigate him and didn't name him because they'd ruled him out.

I thought I remember an article saying it was behind the walmart, but when i was working on the timeline I only found one that said it was behind the A&P. I googled Boone A&P and found Boone pharmacy that's history said it was located adjacent to the A&P some years ago in downtown boone and was there today. I found 3 boone pharmacies but could not tell which was the first. I did find one on W King near the university near the baptist church that was also mentioned. most articles said the mobile home park was less than 4 miles away. The street I thought of next to the boone pharmacy was 3.2 miles away from crime scene. But i did look at that walmart, but assumed when I found the article about the A&P i had just not remembered it correctly. Perhaps there was an original walmart somewhere close to the new one within the 4 miles, and perhaps an old A&P location. Or perhaps once again, the articles conflict. But it is clear the Jimmy was driven south on the bypass down to 105.

I wonder though why in at least one article they say unknown partner and not just say, we checked on this partner and he was cleared?

And as far as hypnosis is concerned, it only works if you have a willing subject, so someone could always pretend to be hypnotized. I still see this as more personal than some grudge. A grudge of this magnitude seems like it would come from months of run ins. I would think other family members would know about someone with that much venom. One investigator suggested a professional hit. I am not so sure. Seems professional hits would be quick and there would be no need to stage a robbery. Staging is to cover connections, and whomever this person with a grudge is, it appears his connection is already well hidden. I doubt very much it was a grudge.

Edited by mbrn30000
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Regi

Well, a grudge is a personal thing...

No, there's nothing about this crime which would indicate a "professional" hit...

Back to the hypnosis thing, I think it's out of the ordinary for investigators to resort to hypnotizing a witness, so it seems to me there must have been info. that they believed she should have known, but claimed not to remember.

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mbrn30000

Well, a grudge is a personal thing...

No, there's nothing about this crime which would indicate a "professional" hit...

Back to the hypnosis thing, I think it's out of the ordinary for investigators to resort to hypnotizing a witness, so it seems to me there must have been info. that they believed she should have known, but claimed not to remember.

You are right by definition, a grudge would be personal. I was thinking the cops meant more business, but maybe they didn't.

You make an excellent point about hypnosis. usually its for a witness to focus on an event searching for some lost info. Why would Ginny fit into that category? What info did they want her to remember? Strange. I did not think of that. Interesting.

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ReddHeadsRantings

There were some very odd cases like this one its from around FEB 1970-FEB 1978 all over NC.

Are you famiular with Jeffery R MacDonald MD ? His family was killed in a bazar way on Fort Bragg. I think it was 17 (27?) years later he was found guilty of killing his family in FEB 1970, and he was a green barte. I wonder if that may be the rumor to them PLUS their demonstration.

Last year i saw a show, an update about MacDonalds case. The MP's saw a lady with a floopy hat walking on the road.

She did an interview on that show-but i think it was filmed years before-i can't recall-BUT she talked about this group that her brother? boyfriend? sister? friend? had started running around with.

They were subpose to be going to random locations ransacking homes and if anyone come home while they did their "game" they would kill them in various ways-ive tried finding the show i saw on this AS what the lady with the floopy hat said about this group seems to be dead on for this killing, or so my subconsious says.

Anyway-try to find her interview-i think it was to a sherif and she was a snitch ? I'm going to find the show and rewatch her part-then tell post it.

I'm sure y'all will find it most interesting.

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Regi

You are right by definition, a grudge would be personal. I was thinking the cops meant more business, but maybe they didn't.

Oh, I see what you meant...an association through his business life rather than his private life... :tu:

It appears to me that Sheriff Carroll simply recognized the staging and was knowledgeable of what that said about the crime.

You know, he's is the only one in LE I've read about who was capable of following the evidence and forming a conclusion! It's very dismaying for me to hear these LE people say something like "I have no idea." :whistle:

And to hear them run in circles..."Well, there's this, but then why that?"...Or "there's that, but then there's this." :rolleyes:

Oh, Brother! :no:

You make an excellent point about hypnosis. usually its for a witness to focus on an event searching for some lost info. Why would Ginny fit into that category? What info did they want her to remember? Strange. I did not think of that. Interesting.

:tu::yes:

Apparently, they believed Jenny could have revealed important info....

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ReddHeadsRantings

Helena Stockley is floopy hats name, the responding MP who M.P. saw her was Kennth Mica and a preson named Gunderson did the interview.

Still looking for show with her interview though-

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mbrn30000

Helena Stockley is floopy hats name, the responding MP who M.P. saw her was Kennth Mica and a preson named Gunderson did the interview.

Still looking for show with her interview though-

There is another thread for Macdonald. I am sure someone posted that some time ago. That woman i think died of an overdose soon after she was interviewed. But you should check out that thread, they would probably appreciate your thoughts.

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ReddHeadsRantings

Im. Stating there could be a link between helena's interview & theses murders.

Why would i want to go to the MacDoland site ?

Heres a link about unsolved murders in the area going. Back to the '70's

http://www.examiner....ers-is-haunting

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mbrn30000

Im. Stating there could be a link between helena's interview & theses murders.

Why would i want to go to the MacDoland site ?

Heres a link about unsolved murders in the area going. Back to the '70's

http://www.examiner....ers-is-haunting

I doubt there is a link to these. I know all about the MacDonald's murder. The thread for this crime is this site. just another discussion on this forum under true crime.

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