More Americans are throwing in the towel...

[F3SS]

Older workers have figured it out and are harder to manipulate.

Also, of course, older workers can be more expensive in health care and time off and so on.

Now would you consider the employers decision not to hire one to be discrimination or the right choice?

[danielost]

I have to say I think the trap many Americans are in that they have to work to keep health insurance is a creation of their own, and especially the labor unions' making, combined with the powerful trial attorneys. They have created a situation where normal people cannot afford to get sick. To be without insurance and to have a preemie or liver disease or a serious burn is to be thrown away.

Another problem is that every country except the USA has prices fixed for meds. Thus forcing americans to pay for all ad vances in producing new/better ones. When we fix our prices there won't be new meds.

[+DieChecker]

I have friends in Australia, and from what I've heard, the number of treatments/medications is also limited. Where a ailment like hand arthritis in the US might have 10 to 20 different types of treatments of varying effect and varying costs, in socialized medicine there likely would be only 2 or 3 choices, and all of them cheap. Thus many people in the world fly to the US to get medical choices unavailible in their home nations.

But if nation is going to keep healthcare cheap, this is what must be done. If 3 choices helps 98% of the people, then it is too bad for that 2%.

Edited February 15, 2014 by DieChecker

[Guest]

I have friends in Australia, and from what I've heard, the number of treatments/medications is also limited. Where a ailment like hand arthritis in the US might have 10 to 20 different types of treatments of varying effect and varying costs, in socialized medicine there likely would be only 2 or 3 choices, and all of them cheap. Thus many people in the world fly to the US to get medical choices unavailible in their home nations.

But if nation is going to keep healthcare cheap, this is what must be done. If 3 choices helps 98% of the people, then it is too bad for that 2%.

Most of those more exotic treatments have poor ethicacy but a willing market among the desperate few who have a willing insurance company or more money than sense. In this case they just aren't worth the money - but no one has to tell that to the smuck who gets suckered in. Many desperate people give up a lot to try those marginal/dubious treatments and travel to the USA to get them.

Bottom line is health outcomes are no better on average in the states than most other national health systems, and in many areas they are worse.

The U.S. spends more on health care than other wealthy nations - in 2006, health care expenditures were 15 percent of GDP in the U.S., compared to 11 percent in France and Germany, 10 percent in Canada, and 8 percent in the United Kingdom and Japan. Yet health outcomes in the U.S. are generally no better than those in other countries. This has led to concern that the U.S. health care system may be less efficient than those of other countries.

............

The authors conclude "perhaps the greatest hope for improving both allocative and productive efficiency will come from efforts to measure and reward accurately outcome productivity - improving health outcomes using cost-effective man-agement of diseases - rather than rewarding on basis of unit service productivity for profitable stents, caesarian-sections, and diagnostic imaging regardless of their impact on health outcomes. This will require rethinking what we pay physicians and hospitals and most importantly how to measure and pay for outcomes rather than inputs."

http://www.nber.org/...no3/w14257.html

Br Cornelius

Edited February 15, 2014 by Guest

[+DieChecker]

Most of those more exotic treatments have poor ethicacy but a willing market among the desperate few who have with a willing insurance company or more money than sense. In this case they just aren't worth the money - but no one has to tell that to the smuck who gets suckered in. Many desperate people give up a lot to try those marginal/dubious treatments and travel to the USA to get them.

Bottom line is health outcomes are no better on average in the states than most other national health systems, and in many areas they are worse.

Br Cornelius

Ahhh.... The defense of "Your alternative treatments don't work."

I don't believe that US outcomes are worse. Unless it is by way of public ignorance, such as in regards with diabetes. The treatments people get here are just as effective. More options always equals more people treated successfully. It is simply a numbers game of at what percentage of sufferers do you stop paying for treatments that will only help 1% of the population.

[Guest]

Ahhh.... The defense of "Your alternative treatments don't work."

I don't believe that US outcomes are worse. Unless it is by way of public ignorance, such as in regards with diabetes. The treatments people get here are just as effective. More options always equals more people treated successfully. It is simply a numbers game of at what percentage of sufferers do you stop paying for treatments that will only help 1% of the population.

You can choose to believe what you want - but the data clearly shows that the American Health system produces the same results but costs more. Its not a matter of belief, its a matter of evidence. When belief comes in true leaves the room.

Lets face the fact that most of those exotic treatments are unavailable to most paying Americans.

Br Cornelius

Edited February 15, 2014 by Guest

[Einsteinium]

I have been reading doom and gloom articles for years now, ever since the crash in 2007/2008 people have been saying "in 3 months...in another year...total COLLAPSE!!" I don't buy it. The American economy is far more capable of weathering crisis and even bad policies than most people realize. Are hard times coming? yes. Will we make it through those hard times and come out better for it? History says yes.

[Guest]

The reality is that in the American system there is no one to say that a 2% increase in survivability is not worth paying 4 times the cost of the marginally poorer treatment. That is why your health costs are staggeringly out of control - and many people cannot afford any treatment at all.

Br Cornelius