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Merc14

Is Obamacare on death's door?

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spartan max2

Alrite same thing.

I always took it as just being a liberal in name only because everytime I read something from. Far left person they call democrats like Obama neoliberals. And the people they accuse of that never act libertarian.

But I guess by the technical definition then it is th same.

My mistake

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Merc14

Liberal as defined in the early 20th century is nothing like what we call a liberal today. A liberal of today would be the exact opposite of neo-liberalism as defined in your example.

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Liberal as defined in the early 20th century is nothing like what we call a liberal today. A liberal of today would be the exact opposite of neo-liberalism as defined in your example.

You could not be more wrong, Liberal was defined in the English civil war(~1640), and except in small adaptations to the times, kept the same until this day.

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Merc14

You could not be more wrong, Liberal was defined in the English civil war(~1640), and except in small adaptations to the times, kept the same until this day.

No, I am not. I am not talking about the dictionary definition I am talking about the beliefs of teh modern liberal are and they most definitely don't believe in small government, big business capitalism. Ted Kennedy, the quintessential liberal, was not a small government, big business guy in anyway. Joseph Lieberman was a liberal but he definitely didn't follow teh definition you posted. I wil agree that the word liberal was hijacked by a very different creature in the last 50 years and I have no idea how it happened but Thomas Jefferson, a solid liberal, would be aghast at the kind of creature wearing the tag today.

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No, I am not. I am not talking about the dictionary definition I am talking about the beliefs of teh modern liberal are and they most definitely don't believe in small government, big business capitalism. Ted Kennedy, the quintessential liberal, was not a small government, big business guy in anyway. Joseph Lieberman was a liberal but he definitely didn't follow teh definition you posted. I wil agree that the word liberal was hijacked by a very different creature in the last 50 years and I have no idea how it happened but Thomas Jefferson, a solid liberal, would be aghast at the kind of creature wearing the tag today.

If they did not follow that definition they were not a liberal, just as, if you are blond and have blue eyes you are not a native American or if you were no uniform you are a civilian and no soldier (even if you are one in uniform).

Whatever others called Kennedy, or Lieberman, or what they called themselves, is hardly relevant.

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Yamato

Whatever others called Kennedy, or Lieberman, or what they called themselves, is hardly relevant.

It is, in his world.

It seems to me like there's a huge disparity in the meaning of the word "liberal" from one hemisphere to the other. And so much of this arguing could be avoided ahead of time if we simply checked our different definitions, and all acknowledged them together.

Contemporary liberals in the US today are much different creatures than classic liberals of old. If Europe still goes by the old definition there's no wonder why there's such confusion on an international board like this. Plus the word "liberal" is a political cudgel that the Mercs of the world love to flail around with. It's an insult. The word has been hijacked. I read liberal in the encyclopedia and I like everything I see. But instead of coming up with more accurate terminology, you can't stop one from having their political tirades when politics is so important to them. So the word gets used much too often and depending on geography inaccurately to boot.

But is Obamacare on death's door? If Republicans did just that one thing, just killed Obamacare by whatever means they do, they'd be so happy with themselves. They'd be boastful braggarts full of themselves and void of good ideas as usual.

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It is, in his world.

It seems to me like there's a huge disparity in the meaning of the word "liberal" from one hemisphere to the other. And so much of this arguing could be avoided ahead of time if we simply checked our different definitions, and all acknowledged them together.

Contemporary liberals in the US today are much different creatures than classic liberals of old. If Europe still goes by the old definition there's no wonder why there's such confusion on an international board like this. Plus the word "liberal" is a political cudgel that the Mercs of the world love to flail around with. It's an insult. The word has been hijacked. I read liberal in the encyclopedia and I like everything I see. But instead of coming up with more accurate terminology, you can't stop one from having their political tirades when politics is so important to them. So the word gets used much too often and depending on geography inaccurately to boot.

But is Obamacare on death's door? If Republicans did just that one thing, just killed Obamacare by whatever means they do, they'd be so happy with themselves. They'd be boastful braggarts full of themselves and void of good ideas as usual.

What nobody gets is that a label defines qualities and detriments, and a label is only valid when both these are present, else it is false advertisement.

To put it simple:

Progressive: lets change the wheels for a bigger one and the cart will move faster

Liberal: If all are happy we need no changes

Conservative: If it is not broken, don't fix it

Reactionary: lets put on the broken wheel we took off last week, it did not-work so much better.

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Yamato

What nobody gets is that a label defines qualities and detriments, and a label is only valid when both these are present, else it is false advertisement.

To put it simple:

Progressive: lets change the wheels for a bigger one and the cart will move faster

Liberal: If all are happy we need no changes

Conservative: If it is not broken, don't fix it

Reactionary: lets put on the broken wheel we took off last week, it did not-work so much better.

Political animals today can belong in every one of those labels at the same time, and it all depends on the issue at hand. Are you coming into my bathroom or my bedroom? That's the difference between the left and the right where I'm from.

That's what makes these labels so confusing. They don't apply to people like the blankets they're used as unless someone is just mindlessly droning their ideologies on the internet, and talking about their labels in a vacuum.

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Br Cornelius

I think people are going off on a tangent here - I said NeoLiberal which defines an economic philosophy of deregulation and free markets . It has nothing to do with been a Liberal which is a progressive state of mind on social issues.

You can be a Liberal with any economic philosophy you like.

Terms are important, and generally they have a specific meaning. All this misuse of terms (such as calling everything Ravenhawk dislikes Socialism) is an abuse of language and an impediment to communication of well understood concepts.

Br Cornelius

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aztek

old news. Website is fixed. 14 million have signed up.

lmao. another lie. 3,3mil signed up.

Biden: 'We may not get to 7 million' by Obamacare deadline.

Biden, on his way to a Democratic National Committee fundraiser in Minneapolis, spoke with a small group of people in the city who are working to help others sign up for insurance, and thanked them for their work.

"We may not get to seven million, we may get to five or six, but that's a hell of a start," Biden said, according to a pool report of his meeting.

The Obama administration said last week that 3.3 million people have enrolled in private Obamacare health plans between October 1 and Feb 1.

http://news.yahoo.co...54--sector.html

so where did number 14 mil came from??? i know where, you pbly can't sit down, cuz it hurts so much, from so much stuff taking out of...... you know.

Edited by aztek
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Merc14

If they did not follow that definition they were not a liberal, just as, if you are blond and have blue eyes you are not a native American or if you were no uniform you are a civilian and no soldier (even if you are one in uniform).

Whatever others called Kennedy, or Lieberman, or what they called themselves, is hardly relevant.

Well you are a force of one because the rest of the world uses the term as I do. At least yamato agrees with you! LMAO

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Well you are a force of one because the rest of the world uses the term as I do. At least yamato agrees with you! LMAO

If by the rest of the world you mean a certain group of reactionaries working hard to pass as conservatives I agree with you.

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aztek

Progressive: lets change the wheels for a bigger one and the cart will move faster

Liberal: If all are happy we need no changes

Conservative: If it is not broken, don't fix it

Reactionary: lets put on the broken wheel we took off last week, it did not-work so much better.

so what was wrong with the cart in a first place? lol.

actually never mind, politicians never fix what needs to be fixed, and always brake what is not broken.

Edited by aztek

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Merc14

If by the rest of the world you mean a certain group of reactionaries working hard to pass as conservatives I agree with you.

Keep pounding your drum. BTW, you are starting to sound like yamato.

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Eldorado

actually never mind, politicians never fix what needs to be fixed, and always brake what is not broken.

As do some doctors when you can't afford to pay them.

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aztek

As do some doctors when you can't afford to pay them.

they ef you up even when you do pay them, along with med cartel, but that is for another thread.

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Eldorado

they ef you up even when you do pay them, along with med cartel, but that is for another thread.

I was only joking, Aztek. I'd sooner trust a doctor than any politician, preacher or resident troll.

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aztek

I was only joking, Aztek. I'd sooner trust a doctor

i would too if i lived where you live.

our doctors however,........

In 2010, the Office of Inspector General for the Department of Health and Human Services said that bad hospital care contributed to the deaths of 180,000 patients in Medicare alone in a given year.

Now comes a study in the current issue of the Journal of Patient Safety that says the numbers may be much higher — between 210,000 and 440,000 patients each year who go to the hospital for care suffer some type of preventable harm that contributes to their death.

That would make medical errors the third-leading cause of death in America, behind heart disease, which is the first, and cancer, which is second.

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Eldorado

Looks like you need an overhaul of your Health services. :(

Good luck!

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Yamato

Once again you are wrong and I find it hilarious that you are now defending a President that has run up more debt than all the past Presidents combined and has shat on the constitution to the point that even uber-liberal constitutional lawyers are getting angry. I know you are probably afraid of pretty and intelligent women but close your eyes, chant la la la and wait for your fellow traveler Turley to chime in.

http://www.ijreview....s-obamas-power/

I'm not defending a President. I've raised posts here stating that Obama has doubled the debt of all Presidents combined from George Washington to George W. Bush and you were nowhere in sight. You had no interest in participating in my thread because if you did, you'd wind up shooting yourself in the foot again.

You have one thing to complain about Obama for, because other than that one thing, he's the 3rd term of Bush. There's precious little that I can credit Obama for, that I can agree with Obama on. There's a grand canyon between Obama and I. Take away Obamacare and there's a chalk drawing between Obama and you. Maybe a small crack on the sidewalk worth of separation, and not much else.

Let me make this as mathematically clear as possible.

Merc14 - Obamacare = Obama

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Merc14

I'm not defending a President. I've raised posts here stating that Obama has doubled the debt of all Presidents combined from George Washington to George W. Bush and you were nowhere in sight. You had no interest in participating in my thread because if you did, you'd wind up shooting yourself in the foot again.

You have one thing to complain about Obama for, because other than that one thing, he's the 3rd term of Bush. There's precious little that I can credit Obama for, that I can agree with Obama on. There's a grand canyon between Obama and I. Take away Obamacare and there's a chalk drawing between Obama and you. Maybe a small crack on the sidewalk worth of separation, and not much else.

Let me make this as mathematically clear as possible.

Merc14 - Obamacare = Obama

Wow, woke up and reacted to a post from the 13th. I thought I was on your dumb list and you were going to leave me alone. What happened? Does your husband know you are on his computer? Stop wasting my time knothead.

Edited by Merc14

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Yamato

Wow, woke up and reacted to a post from the 13th. I thought I was on your dumb list and you were going to leave me alone. What happened? Does your husband know you are on his computer? Stop wasting my time knothead.

Here's some of your own medicine you desperately need: "Your President" sucks, Merc.

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Merc14

Here's some of your own medicine you desperately need: "Your President" sucks, Merc.

p*** poor response.

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Yamato

p*** poor response.

Yeah man, I've gotten that response from you a dozen times. Continuing and even escalating all of Bush's greatest turd drops were the wrong prescription for the country. But only Obamacare deviates from the norm, so you've got that to whine about, and what else? Your objections to Obama are hollow at best. It was okay when Bush did it. It'll be okay once again when Romney or Huckabee or Christie or Rubio or whatever conservatives shill does it in 2017.

Gas prices don't come from the White House, rightie. I've had about enough of you partisan price fixers and your great ideas for what the White House needs to do, to run the world, to run the economy, and to run our lives.

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ninjadude

Biden: 'We may not get to 7 million' by Obamacare deadline

so where did number 14 mil came from???

as was posted here previously there is no "obamacare deadline". It's a CBO projection.

And the 14 mill came from acasignups.net which I've posted here many times. The ACA is not just about private insurance.

You might want to read before spouting off.

aca_chart_140220.jpg

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