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Merc14

Is Obamacare on death's door?

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Merc14

Yeah man, I've gotten that response from you a dozen times. Continuing and even escalating all of Bush's greatest turd drops were the wrong prescription for the country. But only Obamacare deviates from the norm, so you've got that to whine about, and what else? Your objections to Obama are hollow at best. It was okay when Bush did it. It'll be okay once again when Romney or Huckabee or Christie or Rubio or whatever conservatives shill does it in 2017.

Gas prices don't come from the White House, rightie. I've had about enough of you partisan price fixers and your great ideas for what the White House needs to do, to run the world, to run the economy, and to run our lives.

No one on this thread has mentioned gas prices. Once again, don't do bong hits before posting, you are becoming nunjadude without a rudder.

as was posted here previously there is no "obamacare deadline". It's a CBO projection.

And the 14 mill came from acasignups.net which I've posted here many times. The ACA is not just about private insurance.

You might want to read before spouting off.

aca_chart_140220.jpg

Absurdly out of tune with reality.

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Yamato

No one on this thread has mentioned gas prices. Once again, don't do bong hits before posting, you are becoming nunjadude without a rudder.

Nobody else on this thread mentioned that there's no other difference between you and Obama either, so that's my job.

You don't offer any real alternatives to this OBushma spending orgy. You don't offer any alternatives to Bush's Czars. You just whine about the whole shebang simply because Obama is currently at the switch. A democrat won an election and all your problems began in January 2009. You just offer more price fixing, more market making, more debt, more foreign adventures, more dishonest counterproductive right-wing statist policies. You avoid my posts on monetary policy like the plague they are to your right wing statism.

Gas prices, among many other things that conservatives deserve our scorn for, don't come from the White House. Unemployment rates don't come from the White House. You need to learn this all over again come every election season as if you're fresh out of the crib.

Why? Because it's the minutia in your politics, the differences that make no difference, that you're here to condemn.

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F3SS

I'd hate to intervene but what exactly are all the great political decisions you yourself have made?

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Yamato

I'd hate to intervene but what exactly are all the great political decisions you yourself have made?

I've been consistent with my criticism of the government. These democrats didn't really oppose Bush policy like I did. The moment their guy got into office and started doing all the same BS, they were out to lunch.

So I don't change costumes depending on which of the two shat parties happen to have the White House. See the Glenn Beck video I just posted for you in the other thread for a visual aid of what I'm talking about.

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F3SS

Yea I'll get to the video later on. You often speak of other members as if you've known them forever. You've only been on this site a couple of years and so have most of the people in these conversations. Most of us have only know each other during the Obama years. It's going to take more than one administration to judge somebody based on their opinions of current events.

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Yamato

Yea I'll get to the video later on. You often speak of other members as if you've known them forever. You've only been on this site a couple of years and so have most of the people in these conversations. Most of us have only know each other during the Obama years. It's going to take more than one administration to judge somebody based on their opinions of current events.

I don't have to guess with Merc. He comes right out and tells me what he thinks of conservatives, like George W. Bush, Ronald Reagan, etc.

I think I'm suspect of you for the same reasons you're skeptical of me. I know him from what he posts, but I have to wonder, do you?

So with all due respect sir, his 24/7/365 mission of whining about Obama is as clear as a crystal bell to me.

What's so important about the puppet who happens to be on stage right now, Fess? That's 90% of his content right there.

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Yamato

If I wanted to do everything I could to encourage Obamacare in the first place, I would champion the right-wing grab bag of prescription drug subsidies from the federal government to kowtow the senior vote.

Now it's a $22 trillion money pit. So why aren't any of these suddenly politically-correct libertarians suggesting we repeal that??!

THE difference between me and Merc is, I know that the problems aren't going away when Obama does.

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F3SS

I'm not skeptical of you. You have convictions. That's clear. Why you skeptical of me? I've been pretty clear. We all want smaller fiscally responsible government. You seam hellbent on calling people out to pigeonhole them with adamance. We all do that once in a while but you act crazy about it and make it the crux of every other post on any given subject.

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Yamato

I'm not skeptical of you. You have convictions. That's clear. Why you skeptical of me? I've been pretty clear. We all want smaller fiscally responsible government. You seam hellbent on calling people out to pigeonhole them with adamance. We all do that once in a while but you act crazy about it and make it the crux of every other post on any given subject.

Sure, I believe you that we both want smaller fiscally responsible government.

Where am I acting crazy exactly? I'm skeptical of you for saying that. I'm challenging somebody's conservative values and I've done so quite respectfully, especially based on what I'm putting up with thanks.

We Americans aren't going to solve anything if we keep making Barack Obama the noun in every sentence and the subject of every discussion. You're telling me that I'm making it all about one thing? No, I'm the exact opposite of that!

Conservatives have never made government smaller. Conservatives had the power of both houses of Congress and the White House at the same time, and they grew government far bigger than it already was. Are you going to make excuses on partisan lines with me about that too? Et tu, Brute? Every time I hear Merc get snotty with me for reminding him about FACTS, such as another conservative that has utterly failed us, I hear partisan excuses for the failure, mixed 50% with insults.

Again with all due respect, keeping the critique housed in Merc's Barack-Obama shaped-box isn't good enough for this country. That is not going to make a difference.

I'll ask you once more, what's so important about the puppet that's on stage right now, Fess?

If we cannot even be free enough to discuss the failure of conservatives in this country, which is what I have every right to do here, then maybe we're just really interested in setting the table for the next election. There's no smaller government on that table. If that's what you really want, you're at my table, not his. And Merc can't have it both ways. Don't defend rat republicans in front of me and then come tell me I have no right to criticize the consequences my country is needlessly suffering from thanks to those conservative scoundrels in the Republican party.

Now the democrats are playing all of his greatest hits, and he's turning purple about it. A free market reaction! No government censorship or media editing here, right? And it's incidental too. I can't claim total victory as if that was my desired result. I'm here to get the point across that right wing intervention isn't the solution or the alternative to left wing intervention.

I'll withstand a hundred more insults from Merc without retaliating even once if that's what it takes to not act "crazy" here, alright? Let's have probing, challenging, deep, rational discussion and debate here Fess. On balance, I'm not nearly as interested in where we agree as the smaller points where we may disagree. It's nothing personal; and nothing worth snapping at each other about.

Disagreement is a part of freedom of expression. If we can act like gentlemen we can all withstand some disagreement in our discussions. After all, if we're just going to go stand around and hang out with people who already think like we do, if I'm just going to spend my time reinforcing my own ideology, where's the opportunity to change a mind? You can have your beliefs; and your beliefs can be debated. Let's throw down. Like men, not babies.

Edited by Yamato
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danielost

As for which party has done us wrong both have. The republicans with homeland security and the democrats with the IRS and NSA both spying and punishing those who stand against Obama.

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F3SS

I've been consistent with my criticism of the government. These democrats didn't really oppose Bush policy like I did. The moment their guy got into office and started doing all the same BS, they were out to lunch.

So I don't change costumes depending on which of the two shat parties happen to have the White House. See the Glenn Beck video I just posted for you in the other thread for a visual aid of what I'm talking about.

I'd like to add one more thing to this. I feel my convictions have always remained fairly consistent. On the other hand, my opinions and comprehensions on policies, politics and politicians may be and may have been varied from time to time. Reason being is it's a learning process. I became hooked on politics, though not to your extent, during the lead up to the '08 election. I've come quite far in my understandings but our understandings can't always be equal. Even if we disagree on something that doesn't mean either of us are completely right or wrong. Don't mistake our disagreements as naïveté, gall or gull. Sometimes one of those might be the case as we are simply human but we all looking for the same things in the end. Smaller constitutional government that stays the hell out of our personal lives. Am I wrong?

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F3SS

See the Glenn Beck video I just posted for you in the other thread for a visual aid of what I'm talking about.

Ok finally watched. Pretty comical at the least but hardly more credible than a political attack ad. Not saying I don't see your point but I don't think he's been around long enough to really know if he's a real flip flopper or, if like me, his understanding of things has evolved for serious lack of a better word. Fully grasping politics isn't easy and that's the fault of professional politicians doing what they do; they F with US. Anyway, if it matters, I have always been pretty curious to see how he is if and when a republican majority and president ever come about. IIRC, he wasn't at all fond of Mitt Romney and he certainly has nothing nice to say about republicans today. I always respected that he left FOX because he wasn't allowed to speak about just any politician the way he wanted to.

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ninjadude

Absurdly out of tune with reality.

As I've said before, the sources are on the site. It's very transparent.

Now your "reality" is a bit skewed, I'll admit.

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libstaK

Drop it with the personal attacks folks - address the topic.

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danielost

Obamacare is not failing it is doing exactly what it supposed to do, make us dependent on government, from the crib to the grave.

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Merc14

As I've said before, the sources are on the site. It's very transparent.

Now your "reality" is a bit skewed, I'll admit.

You consistently refuse to address the constant delays of the most terrible aspects of this law. Why? The enrollment rate is far below the minimum needed to sustain economic viability and far more people have lost insurance than attained it since this law started to have an effect.

Let's talk about taking effect. Let's talk about taking money for ten years to cover 6 so that the CBO would generate a favorable outcome budget-wise. A huge chunk of that mne came from medicare. The latest CBO estimate, based on real year to year funding, is a much worse estimate and that is if they reach their numbers for enrollment, which they most assuredly won't even come close to, as admitted by Joe Biden. Remember the CBO does ten year estimates and this last one is a nightmare, albeit reality and is still far to optimistic given that eh employer mandate is delayed.

You never address the insecure website that is completely and utterly broken in every way and that many that have signed up don't have insurance and that no one really knows who has paid because the $650M boondoggle, soon to be $1B has no back end yet.

Lastly, you seem to think that delaying employer mandate is not a problem with the finances of this mess. Why? Even Obama has said that the mandates are essential if this law is to remain viable. You also ignore that these delays are strictly political because if they are enacted the democrats will get crushed due to the destruction they will have wrought. Or do you have a different theory for the delay?

A little logic here. If something is as wonderful for the majority as you and star maintain this thing is, the democrats would be pushing hard to implement every aspect of it before the elections. They are, in fact , doing the exact opposite and quite vociferously I might add, and Obama is delaying important aspects of this law, namely the employer mandate and I would guess the individual soon. Can I ask why you think that is?

Edited by Merc14
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F3SS

You consistently refuse to address the constant delays of the most terrible aspects of this law. Why?

Because people are 'covered' now. The ways and means are irrelevant.

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ninjadude

Obamacare is not failing it is doing exactly what it supposed to do, make us dependent on government, from the crib to the grave.

no it has little effect on most Americans. You, personally, are already dependent on the government.

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Yamato

I'd like to add one more thing to this. I feel my convictions have always remained fairly consistent. On the other hand, my opinions and comprehensions on policies, politics and politicians may be and may have been varied from time to time. Reason being is it's a learning process. I became hooked on politics, though not to your extent, during the lead up to the '08 election. I've come quite far in my understandings but our understandings can't always be equal. Even if we disagree on something that doesn't mean either of us are completely right or wrong. Don't mistake our disagreements as naïveté, gall or gull. Sometimes one of those might be the case as we are simply human but we all looking for the same things in the end. Smaller constitutional government that stays the hell out of our personal lives. Am I wrong?

Great post, ,except when you start talking about me. Again you've got me 180 degrees backwards. I despise politics. What politics could I possibly be hooked on? What democrat on this board says "Oh yeah that Yamato, big believer in the cause!"

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ninjadude

You consistently refuse to address the constant delays of the most terrible aspects of this law. Why?

They are only "terrible" to you. The delays are not significant.

The enrollment rate is far below the minimum needed to sustain economic viability and far more people have lost insurance than attained it since this law started to have an effect.

again, no one knows where you get this drivel. It's simply hogwash so I have no need to "address it".

You never address the insecure website that is completely and utterly broken in every way and that many that have signed up don't have insurance and that no one really knows who has paid because the $650M boondoggle, soon to be $1B has no back end yet.

It's not "insecure" or "utterly broken" in any way. Again, as I have said and proven, this is also hogwash. The righties got hung up on a report about features not even implemented. And again, the insurance companies are very sure of who paid. Why do you care? For the zillionth time this is not Government healthcare or healthcare insurance. They are not paying the government.

Lastly, you seem to think that delaying employer mandate is not a problem with the finances of this mess. Why? Even Obama has said that the mandates are essential if this law is to remain viable.

It's not significant. The delays are not stopping these things. They are delays. You do understand the meaning of "delay" right? It's not the same as "cancel".

doing the exact opposite

actually, at the current time, they are trying really hard to get the UNINSURED to ENROLL. A huge number of features have already been implemented and have been for years.

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Yamato

Challenge for the entire board: What political ideology doesn't deserve to be questioned?

Finding the political ideology that fits me best and then letting that influence everything else I think, feel and believe in life is the last thing I'm going to let happen believe me. Politics is the last thing I'm going to let hold sway over my life.

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F3SS

Great post, ,except when you start talking about me. Again you've got me 180 degrees backwards. I despise politics. What politics could I possibly be hooked on? What democrat on this board says "Oh yeah that Yamato, big believer in the cause!"

Well I'd say our constant participation in these politics threads means that we certainly have an interest whether we like politics or not. Sure we hate the game but something keeps us coming back. The challenge question you just posted above is pretty much the driving force for all of us.

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Merc14

Because people are 'covered' now. The ways and means are irrelevant.

Well more have lost insurance than gained it and medicare doesn't count, which is what Ninja depends on for his numbers. ACA is a failure in every respect, utterly and completely and the worst aspects have been delayed till after he elections for a reason.

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coolguy

I hope it does fail and it makes - Obama, the dictator look bad once agian

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ninjadude

Well more have lost insurance than gained it and medicare doesn't count,

which is simply not true, in either respect.

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