UK to Scotland: Walk away, lose the pound

[Shayde]

Okay... Haven't had the chance to get into this thread, bloody work hours, but as a Scot, think it's time to give you the thoughts from the civilian perspective.

First up, cards on table, I am voting to retain the union. So you lot know that is my intention, which'll go some way to explain what may become a rant later in this post!

Have read Scotland's Future, the document put out by the Yes campaign and the SNP. On that alone, I wouldn't vote for separating Scotland from the rest of the UK. As a document, it's intents and promises don't seem to add up. Lots of "we'd like to," and "If we can will," but little mention of just how to fund anything. That's not a great surprise, as the flaming SNP have a track record of great ideas that lose when you ask about how they'll pay. Plus, I do not believe it's in the best interests of the UK as a whole to break up the nation. If we do get a yes for independence, then the same offer must be made to the Welsh and Northern Ireland people as well. And for what? Just so a bunch of spineless failed lawyers - which it seems is a good chunk of the political servant's previous employment - can swan around convinced they are leaders of a nation? Give me a break...

Should point out that I have never voted for the SNP. Or indeed any of the main political parties. In the case of Salmond's little mob, this archs back to many years/ heck decades ago when at college we got visited by the four main groups for a restricted Q&A for a by-election. No questions allowed apart from set questions, with of course set answers. The SNP man (rather fat, obstinate and frankly rude) made the point for getting rid of all nuclear power from Scotland. At the end of the "debate", I'd managed to get hold of him to ask about how such a thing would get funded. Got ignored, asked again and his answer then hacked me off so much it put me off his party since.

"Don't worry about how we'll pay for this, just vote for us."

"But sir, how do you afford such a promise?"

And he then said this.

"Look, if you DO NOT vote for the SNP, you're a traitor to Scotland."

Not kidding, that's what he said. And I thought up yours, you effing git. My vote, my choice to do with as I - your bloody employer - see fit.

Anyway, to the current time. Must also point out that the Better Together lot haven't exactly been the best choice either. I had hoped that from January at least, we'd have had a set of serious, impartial and in depth discussions across the spectrum on just what the choices are for the vote in September. What it would mean, how it would effect not only our dealings with the remainder of Britain but overseas as well. Instead, the lot who are asking us to stay seem to go out and make at times idiotic statements. If you lot leave, we'll set up border posts, remove the pandas from Edinburgh Zoo, not allow you to even retain the currency, and several more stupid remarks. Very much a case of "Waah! You're not going to play nice, so we'll take away the ball and the pitch it's on as well!"

[Shayde]

Blast. Had to dash off there. Didn't intend this to be a two part post!

Right, the Better Together mob. Strange how it has as one figure head a former Labour politican who wasn't much good at best. Darling, he of the silver hair and non matching eyebrows. Aside from that admittedly snide comment, he himself doesn't seem to want to get into a sensible debate, much in the same way Salmond avoids. Which is a major pain in the ****. As said above, right now we need - heck, the whole country including the rest of the UK - to have the matter of going down the independence route explained fully and without any of the "baggage" we're getting. Salmond had only a few years back praised what the Republic of Ireland had achieved, before that went belly up. Then he praised Iceland, and that went haywire. That, and other comments made, shows he's either a Jonah and will bring ruin across the board, or he's only wanting independence so he can swan around being our version of the "dear Leader".

Oh, one slightly odd sidebar, regarding the use of the Scottish pound. Now, this doesn't always happen, but sometimes the further south a Scot goes, the less happy English shops are in accepting the pound printed up here. Yes, we know that it might not be exactly legal tender, but that would also mean the same applies to the Bank of England notes, if you want to get p***y if they're used up here. But we take them. If you go down as far as Manchester or further (And in some places in London) then I know that you get either a funny look, the money is checked and overchecked to ensure it's not a fake, and you get without fail: "Ohhh, I've never seen one of these notes before!" An added comment comparing Scottish notes to Monopoly money is also made more often than not. Bloody cheek...

If we are to go independent, and not keep use of Sterling, then by rights that does sound like England doesn't want us to share in repaying the national debt. Fine by me, saves us a lot of cash. But come on! This argument smacks more of the "Waah!" crap again. For Pete's sake. This vote in September, rightly or wrongly, is a MAJOR issue. As a citizen - a subject if we must call ourselves by the right title - WE DESERVE BETTER! Something I had written to my MSP about. And guess what? This prat - a Labour MSP - has yet to respond. Which shows to me that they either cannot be arsed or they think so little of the general public they're just willing to leave us all uninformed so as to NOT make a decision based on the facts, but lets us make it based on whatever half-arsed arguments we get from both sides in this debate.

Makes you sick...

[Mr.United_Nations]

If Scotland becomes independent nation, will it have a president?

[stevewinn]

we have a way to go yet, it wont be till July - August until we see the big guns rolled out to shoot the SNP down, for now the 'better together campaign' only needs to feel its way politically, leave room for manoeuvre. hence all the comments on side issues, Yet its clear the SNP have fired their 'big guns' and we've found they are firing blanks, duds. here we are 6 months before the referendum and where can the SNP go with their policies. the single biggest issue is already on the table. economy/currency. are we going to discuss this policy for the next six months, the reason i ask is because there is absolutely no point. an SNP independent Scotland is not having a currency union with the remaining UK. - end of discussion -

I bet on the lead up to the referendum the SNP will go further into damage limitation mode. worrying more about their relevance after the referendum. we'll witness infighting, resignations etc etc...

Edited February 20, 2014 by stevewinn

[spud the mackem]

Blast. Had to dash off there. Didn't intend this to be a two part post!

Right, the Better Together mob. Strange how it has as one figure head a former Labour politican who wasn't much good at best. Darling, he of the silver hair and non matching eyebrows. Aside from that admittedly snide comment, he himself doesn't seem to want to get into a sensible debate, much in the same way Salmond avoids. Which is a major pain in the ****. As said above, right now we need - heck, the whole country including the rest of the UK - to have the matter of going down the independence route explained fully and without any of the "baggage" we're getting. Salmond had only a few years back praised what the Republic of Ireland had achieved, before that went belly up. Then he praised Iceland, and that went haywire. That, and other comments made, shows he's either a Jonah and will bring ruin across the board, or he's only wanting independence so he can swan around being our version of the "dear Leader".

Oh, one slightly odd sidebar, regarding the use of the Scottish pound. Now, this doesn't always happen, but sometimes the further south a Scot goes, the less happy English shops are in accepting the pound printed up here. Yes, we know that it might not be exactly legal tender, but that would also mean the same applies to the Bank of England notes, if you want to get p***y if they're used up here. But we take them. If you go down as far as Manchester or further (And in some places in London) then I know that you get either a funny look, the money is checked and overchecked to ensure it's not a fake, and you get without fail: "Ohhh, I've never seen one of these notes before!" An added comment comparing Scottish notes to Monopoly money is also made more often than not. Bloody cheek...

If we are to go independent, and not keep use of Sterling, then by rights that does sound like England doesn't want us to share in repaying the national debt. Fine by me, saves us a lot of cash. But come on! This argument smacks more of the "Waah!" crap again. For Pete's sake. This vote in September, rightly or wrongly, is a MAJOR issue. As a citizen - a subject if we must call ourselves by the right title - WE DESERVE BETTER! Something I had written to my MSP about. And guess what? This prat - a Labour MSP - has yet to respond. Which shows to me that they either cannot be arsed or they think so little of the general public they're just willing to leave us all uninformed so as to NOT make a decision based on the facts, but lets us make it based on whatever half-arsed arguments we get from both sides in this debate.

Makes you sick...

Hiya Shayde, thanks for your letter of explanation,so hopefully you aren't alone.The problem in England is this Tory/LibDem Coalition Gov't is more worried about scoring points off Labour, than worrying about Scotland so we have the same incompetency that you have, and then we have another bunch of idiots called the U.K.I.P party who don't seem to have NO mandate apart from screaming "get out of Europe",so whatever the outcome in September, I wish you and all the Scottish people good luck.Personally I hope the ordinary people vote for you to stay with us,to keep the devious b*****d's of Brussels away from our Borders and doing their best to screw up our economies.

[Harry_Dresden]

The row over Scotland keeping the pound has led to a boost in support for Scottish independence, according to the latest polling evidence.

The gap between the Yes and No camps is down to nine points, with the independence campaign on 38 points, while the pro-Union side is on 47 per cent, according to the poll by Survation. The narrowing gap is down from 20 points in a survey by the same pollster last month.

It is the first survey of opinion since Chancellor George Osborne, along with Labour and the Liberal Democrats, warned that Scotland could not share sterling after a Yes vote in the referendum.

Support for Yes has been edging up since the turn of the year and the latest survey represents another rise.

The poll of 1,005 Scots also found that 65 per cent wanted to see the SNP government set out a Plan B on currency if the Westminster parties do not climb down after a Yes vote.

More than a third (37 per cent) of pro-independence supporters want to see Scotland have its own separate currency.

Deputy First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said the poll is “exceptionally encouraging” for the Yes campaign.

“It is clear that there has been a severe backlash to George Osborne’s bluster and threats on the pound – with more than half of the No campaign’s lead wiped out in just three weeks,” she said.

“Far more people are more likely to vote Yes on the back of the Westminster establishment’s attempted bullying rather than No.”

But Alistair Darling, head of the pro-union Better Together campaign, said the SNP must set out a currency Plan B.

He said: “We know that if we leave the UK, we are leaving behind the security of the pound.

“Scots are clearly saying to Alex Salmond that he cannot keep us in the dark.”

Polling expert Professor John Curtice of Strathclyde University said the poll showed no sign of a boost for the Better Together campaign in light of the currency row.

He said: “When one looks at this poll, one has, at minimum, to conclude that it offers no evidence that the currency intervention has delivered the No side any immediate boost.”

The poll showed that just 37 per cent believe Westminster is not bluffing while more than half (52 per cent) think that a currency union would be in the interests of the rest of the UK.

Better Together has written to households across Scotland spelling out what losing the pound would mean for families.

Joanne Piercy, a working mother of three, says in the letter on behalf of the campaign that “losing the pound means bigger risks for us all”.

“The news that voting to leave the United Kingdom will mean Scotland would lose the pound has made my mind up,” Ms Piercy’s letter adds.

“I’ll be voting No in September because Scotland staying in the UK means more security for my family.”

Alex Salmond came under pressure at First Ministers’ Questions yesterday to make a statement to parliament on currency, setting out the Scottish Government’s alternative to keeping the pound.

Liberal Democrat leader Willie Rennie said: “Despite all the opinion, including on his side, he can’t even say that it might be a possibility, and he can’t hide on that until September.

“It will be the Chancellor after a Yes vote, if that were to happen, whom he will have to convince about a currency union.

“The First Minister’s whole plan is based on the judgment of that Chancellor, George Osborne. And this is a man he derides for his judgment every day of the week.”

The poll also shows the SNP is 13 points clear of Labour in voting intentions for the Holyrood elections in 2016. The Nationalists are on 44 per cent compared with Labour on 31 per cent. The Tories are on 13 per cent, with the Liberal Democrats struggling on 6 per cent, according to the survey.

Ms Sturgeon added: “The remarkable level of support for the SNP after nearly seven years in government – with comparable levels of support as our 2011 election landslide – is a real vote of confidence in the SNP government’s strong record of delivering for people in Scotland.”

Source: http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/independence-support-rises-in-wake-of-pound-row-1-3313112

[Space Commander Travis]

The row over Scotland keeping the pound has led to a boost in support for Scottish independence, according to the latest polling evidence.

So what will Alex do if he persuades enough of the People to vote for him by appealing to Patriotism and explaining how the tyrannical and bullying English government hate them, and then they find that not only can they still not persuade the tyrannical & bullying English government to let them share the Pound, but the preposterous EU won't let them walk straight in and embrace the Euro, and the tyrannical & bullying English govt. won't even let them take whatever share of the Armed forces as Alex believes they will be able to, and they won't even be allowed just to walk straight in & join NATO? Might that not lead to some discontent? Can the people really not see how much they're being conned by this charismatic Freedom fighter? I mean, that argument in the headline above makes no sense at all does it; what do they imagine that will do? Persuade the tyrannical English to let them continue to use the Pound? it's surely much more likely to just prompt people to say "Well, :blush: :blush: off then, and let's see if you can make it work", doesn't it.

[Space Commander Travis]

here's another interesting question: Will they keep the BBC as the National Broadcaster? Will they still have to pay the extortion - the, er license fee? Perhaps if he was to announce that they'd be free of the tyrannical bullying of the Beeb, that might be a real vote winner for him.

[Shayde]

here's another interesting question: Will they keep the BBC as the National Broadcaster? Will they still have to pay the extortion - the, er license fee? Perhaps if he was to announce that they'd be free of the tyrannical bullying of the Beeb, that might be a real vote winner for him.

This has been answered already. The plan is to use the facilities of the BBC as a kind of franchise. It would become - for want of a better acronym - the SBC. The argument put forth was that since Scotland pays the licence fee, we already own the BBC property and all of its gear up here in Scotland, so there's no bother with just whacking one of the "B"'s off, and replace with the "S". However... The BBC in London has not yet said if they'd would let this happen. The unofficial view reported was why should they give the primary BBC office in Glasgow all the equipment, staff and indeed the building for what they think is free?

Or to put it another way, more Salmond bluster and crap made without even bothering to find out if it's legal or allowed! Indeed, there was mention that if we do go independent, then for Pete's sake find out if we'd still get popular TV shows after the changeover. The public might not be too chuffed to find that they won't get to see the likes of various soap operas, dancing shows and the like if we voted to say get lost to England!

Edited February 21, 2014 by Shayde

[Shayde]

So what will Alex do if he persuades enough of the People to vote for him by appealing to Patriotism and explaining how the tyrannical and bullying English government hate them, and then they find that not only can they still not persuade the tyrannical & bullying English government to let them share the Pound, but the preposterous EU won't let them walk straight in and embrace the Euro, and the tyrannical & bullying English govt. won't even let them take whatever share of the Armed forces as Alex believes they will be able to, and they won't even be allowed just to walk straight in & join NATO? Might that not lead to some discontent? Can the people really not see how much they're being conned by this charismatic Freedom fighter? I mean, that argument in the headline above makes no sense at all does it; what do they imagine that will do? Persuade the tyrannical English to let them continue to use the Pound? it's surely much more likely to just prompt people to say "Well, :blush: :blush: off then, and let's see if you can make it work", doesn't it.

Wow, you think Alec Salmond's got charisma? You'd be one of the few who do!!!

I am surprised that so far we've not had that rallying cry from the SNP actually. It's been used by the prospective candidates before, made it into their literature in fact, "Arise and be a nation again!"

Now don't get me wrong. Scotland is a good country. We've had a hand in various major endeavours for the UK, in the fields of science, medicine, the law. We've contributed to the wealth of the UK greatly since 1707 and the Act of Union. But when we were a nation, proud, noble and true, we were also a tad mercenary, corrupt, and as one historian put it succinctly, "Willing to sell our granny for a few pennies, if we thought it would make a profit!" Look at our history. A good chunk of the nobles were back stabbers, family and clan disputes that would end up in near massacres, and plenty of self serving thugs who gave not a jot for the common folk, but their own little cliques. Pretty much like our current mob in the various parliaments...

With the SNP, it's pretty much always "Ignore the policies that we can't explain, just look at the Saltire flag. Isn't it pretty!"

In this upcoming vote, I am reminded of a song from Francie and Josie (AKA comedians Jack Milroy and Rikki Fulton), The Glasgow Highland Games. It has the opening lines which sum up the SNP and all of it's flag waving nicely;

Scotland has a history,

of fighting men sae braw.

Of some that brought us victory,

an' others that brought, hee haw.

There's way too much "hee haw"....

Edited February 21, 2014 by Shayde

[TSS]

Having lived in Scotland for a few yrs I hope they stay part of the union, but if the majority truly want to break away then I wish them well and I hope they succeed. I hope those voting know all the facts though, and don't get hood winked into making a decision which turns out to be good for one man's ego and his place in history, and not so good for everyone else.

[itsnotoutthere]

Speaking of 'dictators' English policy to tackle Scottish independence is fear based and punishing in the extreme if the Scots vote for a separation from the UK. So 'we love you Scotland and hope you'll remain in the Union BUT if you leave then you get nothing but grief from what's left of the UK'. Doesn't sound like much of a union to me...funny thing is that Cameron and the rest of the Unionist have shot themselves in the foot by playing tough...even if independence is voted down, there is already a significant YES to independent Scotland to form a legitimate mandate for greater autonomy and the fact that Scotland is being bullied and insulted by Cameron and Osborne will be a telling factor in the aftermath and a rallying cry for the nationalist movement in the future.

Either way the "union" will never be the same after this referendum and the issue will never really leave the Scottish agenda, it will just fester until the next referendum.

What you seem to fail to understand, & what was explained on the BBC news the other day is that if Scotland wanted to keep the pound & a fiscal union with the bank of England, the bank of England (i.e. the English, Welsh & Irish taxpayers) would be obliged to bail out the Scots if ever things went t*ts up in Scotland. Now why the hell would we want to do that for a nation that chooses to have nothing to do with us & who have already questioned whether they should repay their chunk of the national debt?

Edited February 21, 2014 by itsnotoutthere

[Harry_Dresden]

What you seem to fail to understand, & what was explained on the BBC news the other day is that if Scotland wanted to keep the pound & a fiscal union with the bank of England, the bank of England (i.e. the English, Welsh & Irish taxpayers) would be obliged to bail out the Scots if ever things went t*ts up in Scotland. Now why the hell would we want to do that for a nation that chooses to have nothing to do with us & who have already questioned whether they should repay their chunk of the national debt?

I'm not a banker nor an economist but i really can't see any problem why it couldn't work other than Westminster being vindictive. If the Euro zone can juggle it's load then I fail to see how a Bank of England couldn't sort out a Scotland 1/10th it's size. Anyway, one things for sure...if both sides are squabbling already then there's no reason to continue with the 'better together' campaign anymore.

[Harry_Dresden]

So what will Alex do if he persuades enough of the People to vote for him by appealing to Patriotism and explaining how the tyrannical and bullying English government hate them, and then they find that not only can they still not persuade the tyrannical & bullying English government to let them share the Pound, but the preposterous EU won't let them walk straight in and embrace the Euro, and the tyrannical & bullying English govt. won't even let them take whatever share of the Armed forces as Alex believes they will be able to, and they won't even be allowed just to walk straight in & join NATO? Might that not lead to some discontent? Can the people really not see how much they're being conned by this charismatic Freedom fighter? I mean, that argument in the headline above makes no sense at all does it; what do they imagine that will do? Persuade the tyrannical English to let them continue to use the Pound? it's surely much more likely to just prompt people to say "Well, :blush: :blush: off then, and let's see if you can make it work", doesn't it.

...what's happened is that a democratic debate has turned into a state of nationalist point scoring, for not just the Scot's but also the English. Hell hath no fury like a scorned England. Either way it will be a messy state of affairs with or without a yes vote. So in reality for Scotland, holding on to the pound sterling is now a moot point since the English are in no mood to make Scottish independence work NOR a viable concern. The SNP will have to bite the bullet and go it alone and push their own currency as an alternative to the pound and the Euro. It will be painful for the Scots, but as the English intention is to obviously to draw out the entire affair into a chaotic free for all scaring the Scottish population into voting NO, they have no choice but to endure if it is independence that they want.

[stevewinn]

What you seem to fail to understand, & what was explained on the BBC news the other day is that if Scotland wanted to keep the pound & a fiscal union with the bank of England, the bank of England (i.e. the English, Welsh & Irish taxpayers) would be obliged to bail out the Scots if ever things went t*ts up in Scotland. Now why the hell would we want to do that for a nation that chooses to have nothing to do with us & who have already questioned whether they should repay their chunk of the national debt?

and it was the SNP, Alex Salmond who described the pound £ sterling as the millstone around the neck of Scotland. this was when his first choice was joining the Euro, i wonder whats changed. and talk about vindictive, look at the SNP's white paper, tuition fees. An independent Scotland would charge English, Welsh and Northern Irish students the full fee, £9,000 a year but if your from outside the remaining UK, IE Europe its free. says it all.

It reminds me of when Prime Minister David Cameron went to meet Alex Salmond, in the room where the meeting was held Salmond had a oil painting special hung on the wall that painting was of a Scottish battle in which the Scottish beat the English. its sums up the mindset of Alex Salmond and SNP it doesn't matter what happens the hardcore nationalists want independence no matter the cost.

[Harry_Dresden]

and it was the SNP, Alex Salmond who described the pound £ sterling as the millstone around the neck of Scotland. this was when his first choice was joining the Euro, i wonder whats changed. and talk about vindictive, look at the SNP's white paper, tuition fees. An independent Scotland would charge English, Welsh and Northern Irish students the full fee, £9,000 a year but if your from outside the remaining UK, IE Europe its free. says it all.

It reminds me of when Prime Minister David Cameron went to meet Alex Salmond, in the room where the meeting was held Salmond had a oil painting special hung on the wall that painting was of a Scottish battle in which the Scottish beat the English. its sums up the mindset of Alex Salmond and SNP it doesn't matter what happens the hardcore nationalists want independence no matter the cost.

What did you expect? the guy's a nationalist looking for independence for his nation, of course he's going to use whatever is at his disposal to highlight his battle...just like Cameron uses the Pound Sterling debate to push his agenda. In fact I'd say the Salmond's oil painting is a mothers kindness compared to the Pound Sterling battle axe that Cameron is swinging at a future Scotland.

[stevewinn]

I'm not a banker nor an economist but i really can't see any problem why it couldn't work other than Westminster being vindictive. If the Euro zone can juggle it's load then I fail to see how a Bank of England couldn't sort out a Scotland 1/10th it's size. Anyway, one things for sure...if both sides are squabbling already then there's no reason to continue with the 'better together' campaign anymore.

Scotland doesnt even meet the criteria to join the euro doesn't that sum up Scotlands economic reality. if you joined the euro you'd find yourself in a situation which would make the Greek crisis look like a tea party.

It might have escaped your attention but the UK is the fastest growing economy in the G7. thats the worlds top seven economies. and goes without saying the fastest growing in Europe the reason for this growth is we have full sovereign financial monetary levers to adjust our economy. something we would lose if we had a currency union with a foreign country.

So why juggle like the Euro zone when we dont have to? have you not seen the euro zone crisis and the disparity, no thanks. not for us. and still the SNP and their supporters wonder why we wont enter a currency Union. the evidence is right in front of them.

edit to add, £40 billion spent on bailing out two Scottish banks. its a good job you wasn't independent, you'd have been bankrupt and at best borrowing on the world markets at 6.2% which would result in a 70% tax rate by your government.

Edited February 21, 2014 by stevewinn

[Harry_Dresden]

Scotland doesnt even meet the criteria to join the euro doesn't that sum up Scotlands economic reality. if you joined the euro you'd find yourself in a situation which would make the Greek crisis look like a tea party.

It might have escaped your attention but the UK is the fastest growing economy in the G7. thats the worlds top seven economies. and goes without saying the fastest growing in Europe the reason for this growth is we have full sovereign financial monetary levers to adjust our economy. something we would lose if we had a currency union with a foreign country.

So why juggle like the Euro zone when we dont have to? have you not seen the euro zone crisis and the disparity, no thanks. not for us. and still the SNP and their supporters wonder why we wont enter a currency Union. the evidence is right in front of them.

edit to add, £40 billion spent on bailing out two Scottish banks. its a good job you wasn't independent, you'd have been bankrupt and at best borrowing on the world markets at 6.2% which would result in a 70% tax rate by your government.

So your argument is that the Pound Sterling is superior to the EURO...18 countries use the EURO stabilized by the economic German and French power houses BUT the British pound is superior. Rudimentary economics is all i can stomach so I'll not argue your point even though i know for a fact that the reason why Britain keeps it's distance from the EU and the EURO is not the excellent qualities of the pound but rather because financial/and any sort of independence seems to be paramount to integration with the whole of Europe, isn't it the reason why there's a in/out referendum planned? You value British independence FAR greater than the advantages of a collective currency.You are aware that if a painful bust-up of the UK occurs then both Scotland and England will see there economies go through turmoil? As far as those two Scottish banks that were bailed out I'll remind you that a/ they were subject to British banking laws b/ they were using the pound c/ they lent to all of Britain and not just in Scotland and d/ I read somewhere (can't remember exactly where) but Scotland has a powerful banking industry that represents a more than proportional slice of the British banking pie.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Harry_Dresden

[TSS]

I'm not a banker nor an economist but i really can't see any problem why it couldn't work other than Westminster being vindictive. If the Euro zone can juggle it's load then I fail to see how a Bank of England couldn't sort out a Scotland 1/10th it's size. Anyway, one things for sure...if both sides are squabbling already then there's no reason to continue with the 'better together' campaign anymore.

I wouldn't call it vindictive, i'd say it's pretty much to be expected. We (the rest of the uk) doesn't want you to go, but if you do then we won't hold your hand, if letting you keep the pound has no real benefits for us then there is no reason to let you (that is as fair as you leaving and breaking the union)

Your best bet may be the euro, this link is worth a read, and gives you a better idea of the options and there impact:

http://www.iea.org.uk/blog/should-an-independent-scotland-keep-the-pound

[Space Commander Travis]

So your argument is that the Pound Sterling is superior to the EURO...18 countries use the EURO stabilized by the economic German and French power houses BUT the British pound is superior. Rudimentary economics is all i can stomach so I'll not argue your point even though i know for a fact that the reason why Britain keeps it's distance from the EU and the EURO is not the excellent qualities of the pound but rather because financial/and any sort of independence seems to be paramount to integration with the whole of Europe, isn't it the reason why there's a in/out referendum planned? You value British independence FAR greater than the advantages of a collective currency.You are aware that if a painful bust-up of the UK occurs then both Scotland and England will see there economies go through turmoil? As far as those two Scottish banks that were bailed out I'll remind you that a/ they were subject to British banking laws b/ they were using the pound c/ they lent to all of Britain and not just in Scotland and d/ I read somewhere (can't remember exactly where) but Scotland has a powerful banking industry that represents a more than proportional slice of the British banking pie.

So basically what you're saying is, the sooner Scotland is free of the tyranny and oppression of Westminster, the better, but there's absolutely nothing wrong at all with expecting the Bank of England to support its currency?

[spud the mackem]

and it was the SNP, Alex Salmond who described the pound £ sterling as the millstone around the neck of Scotland. this was when his first choice was joining the Euro, i wonder whats changed. and talk about vindictive, look at the SNP's white paper, tuition fees. An independent Scotland would charge English, Welsh and Northern Irish students the full fee, £9,000 a year but if your from outside the remaining UK, IE Europe its free. says it all.

It reminds me of when Prime Minister David Cameron went to meet Alex Salmond, in the room where the meeting was held Salmond had a oil painting special hung on the wall that painting was of a Scottish battle in which the Scottish beat the English. its sums up the mindset of Alex Salmond and SNP it doesn't matter what happens the hardcore nationalists want independence no matter the cost.

Mind games won't work on Cam, as He's a past Master at this sort of thing.The dirty tricks haven't started yet on both sides,and we can be really mean when someone takes the p*** ,ask the Argies.

[Space Commander Travis]

All of a sudden David "Cam" Cameron, the man whose only discernible policy since he manouvered his way into office (you can hardly say he was elected) is to Cut everything in sight, is a great machiavellian genius. Let's be honest here, his opponent is Alex Salmond, let's keep a sense of proportion.

[Shayde]

Now I don't want anyone to think we're not getting debates on a regular basis up here. There's at least two programmes on TV each week, with more on radio and of course online sources looking at the impact of going it alone. However, as somebody has already pointed out, as soon as a political type slimes into the debate, we get the "Oh! Your expert is wrong. OUR expert is right!" crap. And it's always on party lines which makes it all the more depressing to have to suffer it every flaming time. There are times you'd not be shocked to see a suited MSP throw his rattle at another giving how childish they behave about it...

If we go independent, we really ought not expect to go into a fiscal union if this harms the remainder of the UK. On the other hand, there is still a lot of people here not trusting the Euro, so that might not be a great option as a concrete acceptance by the public is not assured. But this is the problem. The likes of the nationalists are not coming forth with a plan B, or even plan C to at least give us options. And when a counter argument is made, the nationalists cry on how this all bullying is not fair to the country.

Oh, there was mention earlier in the thread about Nigel Farage? As you may be aware, for some reason his message isn't going down too well up here. At least twice when he's been in Scotland he's got a rather energetic reception. Well, rather negative and vocally energetic reception! Pretty much think that the UKIP party has given up on us north of the border!

Edited February 22, 2014 by Shayde

[Space Commander Travis]

That's one consolation, even if Mr. Salmond does get his way, at least the English still have Mr. F to lend some comic relief to the political scene.

[keithisco]

Scottish Currency Plan "B":

1. You maintain the printing presses producing Scottish Notes (which are not legal tender anywhere - except by the Grace of the Bank of England who does swap them for Legal Tender)

2. You link the exchange value of the Scottish Pound to the English Pound (might have difficulty in getting the ForEx biggies accepting this)

3. You can then apply to join the EERM (European Exchange Rate Mechanism) which is 2 year pre-cursor to applying to join the Euro

4. You repay your debt to the remaining UK Nations (to not do so will severely limit your access to the EERM and the Euro)

5. You will have to exchange your Scottish Notes for UK Notes (if you want to visit the UK, and pay the prevailing exchange and commission rates). As we do when visiting the eurozone.

So, come on SNP, how difficult is it to come up with a Plan "B"?

Edited February 22, 2014 by keithisco