UK to Scotland: Walk away, lose the pound

[Harry_Dresden]

So basically what you're saying is, the sooner Scotland is free of the tyranny and oppression of Westminster, the better, but there's absolutely nothing wrong at all with expecting the Bank of England to support its currency?

...To a point...i believe the Union was financially and socially beneficial to both sides for many hundreds of years...but times change and nationalism is at the fore of change and people need to respect that. I believe that it isn't as simple as just saying that the Bank of England has a right to support it's currency. There's a long tern view that's based on many factors, not least of all the close cultural and economic ties that Scotland and England currently enjoy...I'm of the belief that not sharing the pound sterling will harm England in the long run, while in the event of a successful YES vote without a plan B the Scottish economy will be decimated in the short term, which I think is the general Westminster plan A...and the lack of a viable i-Scottish currency is Cameron's and Osborne's fault as much as it's Salmond's since they have refused to debate and pre-negotiate what Scotland will be voting for...'I'll let you vote for independence first and then I'll dictate the terms of what a I-Scotland will be'. You can't profess to have the best democratic interests of Scotland at heart by stacking the deck in England's favour and that's why the independence movement has received such a huge support boost in recent weeks. People can see Westminster's tyrannical and oppressive hand in hindering Scottish aspirations.

[Space Commander Travis]

Is i-scotland short for independent Scotland, or is it some new iphone app the SNP have brought out?

[stevewinn]

So your argument is that the Pound Sterling is superior to the EURO...18 countries use the EURO stabilized by the economic German and French power houses BUT the British pound is superior. Rudimentary economics is all i can stomach so I'll not argue your point even though i know for a fact that the reason why Britain keeps it's distance from the EU and the EURO is not the excellent qualities of the pound but rather because financial/and any sort of independence seems to be paramount to integration with the whole of Europe, isn't it the reason why there's a in/out referendum planned? You value British independence FAR greater than the advantages of a collective currency.You are aware that if a painful bust-up of the UK occurs then both Scotland and England will see there economies go through turmoil? As far as those two Scottish banks that were bailed out I'll remind you that a/ they were subject to British banking laws b/ they were using the pound c/ they lent to all of Britain and not just in Scotland and d/ I read somewhere (can't remember exactly where) but Scotland has a powerful banking industry that represents a more than proportional slice of the British banking pie.

No im not saying the pound £ is superior, what i am saying is the UK having its own currency and NOT being in a currency union with the Euro € for example allows the United Kingdom to structure its currency to suit the economic situation. nothing demonstrates this more than the Euro zone crisis If the United Kingdom would have adopted the Euro, we'd have been in a crisis like we see in Greece. If not worse and thats a fact. So its a good job we opted to keep the pound sterling a currency with a strong track record,a tried and tested currency which can be counted in centuries. not decades - I hope you now realise why entering a currency with an independent Scotland is not in our National interest.

Lets remember - Scotland would be walking away from the union. we haven't asked you to leave. Its about time the SNP had a coherent plan in how to achieve this. Its no-one else's fault the SNP's policies dont stand up to scrutiny.

Here you are on the cusp of the biggest decision your Nation as made in the last 307 years, and somehow we find the SNP at the forefront of History - this monumental life and National changing circumstance. I just cannot fathom Scotland leaving the Union. the worlds longest and most successful National and Political union. the weight of history is just to great, 307 years of stability, tradition, unity could be gone, in an instant. and what for? its not like the Scottish are oppressed, still retain your national identity, and all the benefits of being in the oldest and most successful union in history the United Kingdom.

Three Hundred and Seven years and you've never had it so good. I could understand if Scotland faced hardship being part of the UK, but it seems the SNP want Scotland to face hardship. they'd take Scotland from the top table in the world to the doldrums, are you prepared for this? i hope you are, but i know the answer, your not prepared for such an outcome. The crux of the matter is this you want your lifestyle - your comfortable life to continue that is why not only the SNP but also the Nationalist in you seeks, craves the comfort, the safety net of knowing the UK will stand behind you, pick you up if (when) you fall, because the reality is you want independence but without facing the problems, the dangers, the consequences that undoubtedly go with that. Hence you want the same UK you've chosen to walk away from, whose stability, tradition, unity, and political union has given us all that we see, enabling us its citizens to flourish in safety in a world of turmoil and hardships. but Go,Go now see how far Nationalism gets you. because once your gone there will be no coming back. and when the problems mount and the population starts heading south of the border craving what they once had. it will be of no use looking back over the shoulder to an independent Scotland thinking - And there's another country I've heard of long ago, Most dear to them that love her, Most great to them that know.

Edited February 23, 2014 by stevewinn

[Harry_Dresden]

No im not saying the pound £ is superior, what i am saying is the UK having its own currency and NOT being in a currency union with the Euro € for example allows the United Kingdom to structure its currency to suit the economic situation. nothing demonstrates this more than the Euro zone crisis If the United Kingdom would have adopted the Euro, we'd have been in a crisis like we see in Greece. If not worse and thats a fact. So its a good job we opted to keep the pound sterling a currency with a strong track record,a tried and tested currency which can be counted in centuries. not decades - I hope you now realise why entering a currency with an independent Scotland is not in our National interest.

Lets remember - Scotland would be walking away from the union. we haven't asked you to leave. Its about time the SNP had a coherent plan in how to achieve this. Its no-one else's fault the SNP's policies dont stand up to scrutiny.

Here you are on the cusp of the biggest decision your Nation as made in the last 307 years, and somehow we find the SNP at the forefront of History - this monumental life and National changing circumstance. I just cannot fathom Scotland leaving the Union. the worlds longest and most successful National and Political union. the weight of history is just to great, 307 years of stability, tradition, unity could be gone, in an instant. and what for? its not like the Scottish are oppressed, still retain your national identity, and all the benefits of being in the oldest and most successful union in history the United Kingdom.

Three Hundred and Seven years and you've never had it so good. I could understand if Scotland faced hardship being part of the UK, but it seems the SNP want Scotland to face hardship. they'd take Scotland from the top table in the world to the doldrums, are you prepared for this? i hope you are, but i know the answer, your not prepared for such an outcome. The crux of the matter is this you want your lifestyle - your comfortable life to continue that is why not only the SNP but also the Nationalist in you seeks, craves the comfort, the safety net of knowing the UK will stand behind you, pick you up if (when) you fall, because the reality is you want independence but without facing the problems, the dangers, the consequences that undoubtedly go with that. Hence you want the same UK you've chosen to walk away from, whose stability, tradition, unity, and political union has given us all that we see, enabling us its citizens to flourish in safety in a world of turmoil and hardships. but Go,Go now see how far Nationalism gets you. because once your gone there will be no coming back. and when the problems mount and the population starts heading south of the border craving what they once had. it will be of no use looking back over the shoulder to an independent Scotland thinking - And there's another country I've heard of long ago, Most dear to them that love her, Most great to them that know.

Having the same currency stimulates trade, especially between neighbours. So why would Westminster take such a short term and counter productive option is beyond me. So since Osborne and Cameron have spat their dummies by alienating those north of the boarder with the out of Britain out of the pound mantra how can it be viewed as anything but vindictive. Saying that if Britain had the EURO it would be like Greece is hard to believe. The EURO is a currency of discipline that can't be mass printed to buy a nation out of trouble, unlike the pound that is more flexible BUT also prone to more fluctuations...a better example would be to compare Germany (dominate EURO nation) to Britain. Now back to this currency squable...in the event of a i-Scotland using the EURO or any other currency, trade with Britain would be more expensive and subject to currency fluctuations...so tell me how it's in England advantage to push Scotland out of the pound sterling, push a Scotland that is 1/10th the size with an already intertwined economy and into the very arms of those that Westminster hates...the EURO nations?

Edited February 23, 2014 by Harry_Dresden

[stevewinn]

Having the same currency stimulates trade, especially between neighbours. So why would Westminster take such a short term and counter productive option is beyond me. So since Osborne and Cameron have spat their dummies by alienating those north of the boarder with the out of Britain out of the pound mantra how can it be viewed as anything but vindictive. Saying that if Britain had the EURO it would be like Greece is hard to believe. The EURO is a currency of discipline that can't be mass printed to buy a nation out of trouble, unlike the pound that is more flexible BUT also prone to more fluctuations...a better example would be to compare Germany (dominate EURO nation) to Britain. Now back to this currency squable...in the event of a i-Scotland using the EURO or any other currency, trade with Britain would be more expensive and subject to currency fluctuations...so tell me how it's in England advantage to push Scotland out of the pound sterling, push a Scotland that is 1/10th the size with an already intertwined economy and into the very arms of those that Westminster hates...the EURO nations?

The strength of the pound sterling is the fact its a sovereign currency, and that we are not part of a currency union. if the UK was to enter into a currency union with an independent Scotland we'd have to cede part of our national sovereignty. it is not in the National interest for 56 million people (UK) to cede sovereignty for just 5.1 million people (Scotland) when the Bank of England sets interest rates we'd have to take Scotland's economic situation into consideration for example. an interest rate in the UK of 0.5% might not be the best for Scotland were an interest rate 1.5% suit better, benefitting Scotland's economy.

The real hard lesson here in the EU, Eurozone. the reason why Germany dominates the Euro zone, Germany is the Euro zone economic powerhouse. the interest rate for the Euro will always be set in the interest of Germany. but look at the smaller countries who have suffered because of that, locked in a Euro straitjacket, as part of a currency union, they are unable set their own interest rates, they are unable to borrow money. instead they needed bailing out, by other EU countries in the main Germany. in short they were unable to adjust their currency to suit their economic situation, leading to a prolonged recession. Greece is a great example. unable to adjust their economy found itself not in a recession but a depression that has set records, a full seven years.

And believe me when i say the UK if it had joined the Euro our economic situation would have been worsen than Greece. as part of the currency union, we'd have been unable to adjust interest rates, devalue the currency and quantitative easing. dont take my word for it, proponent of joining the Euro was none other than ex MEP and current Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg who admitted at his party conference, if the UK had joined the Euro it would have been a huge mistake. in hindsight Britain had had a lucky escape.

So maybe now you understand why the UK will not enter into a currency union with a foreign country.

[itsnotoutthere]

...To a point...i believe the Union was financially and socially beneficial to both sides for many hundreds of years...but times change and nationalism is at the fore of change and people need to respect that. I believe that it isn't as simple as just saying that the Bank of England has a right to support it's currency. There's a long tern view that's based on many factors, not least of all the close cultural and economic ties that Scotland and England currently enjoy...I'm of the belief that not sharing the pound sterling will harm England in the long run, while in the event of a successful YES vote without a plan B the Scottish economy will be decimated in the short term, which I think is the general Westminster plan A...and the lack of a viable i-Scottish currency is Cameron's and Osborne's fault as much as it's Salmond's since they have refused to debate and pre-negotiate what Scotland will be voting for...'I'll let you vote for independence first and then I'll dictate the terms of what a I-Scotland will be'. You can't profess to have the best democratic interests of Scotland at heart by stacking the deck in England's favour and that's why the independence movement has received such a huge support boost in recent weeks. People can see Westminster's tyrannical and oppressive hand in hindering Scottish aspirations.

Er...why? Funny how it's ok for the Scots to be nationalistic but when the English try it, its suddenly accused of all sorts of xenophobia.

[A rather obscure Bassoon]

Er...why? Funny how it's ok for the Scots to be nationalistic but when the English try it, its suddenly accused of all sorts of xenophobia.

I think Jingoistic is the word more commonly used on this site,but that's just details.Agree with you entirely.

[bootneck]

I live and own a business in Scotland, out on the Hebrides and from talking to many of my customers over the last couple of years, since independence reared its head, I get a nearly a 100 percent feedback that a. it’s a disaster waiting to happen, b. they are happy being part of the UK, c. they distrust Mr Salmon.

The one or two SNP supporters I have talked to seem to use independence as a thin veil over, I hate the English and all the stand for and when challenged in relation to defence, money, Oil just go off into a rant, which does there cause not service at all.

The problem is so many people think it’s never going to happen, that they a lulled in to a false sense of security and think, I am not going to vote they will never get in, we need to get out and vote, no.

[stevewinn]

I live and own a business in Scotland, out on the Hebrides and from talking to many of my customers over the last couple of years, since independence reared its head, I get a nearly a 100 percent feedback that a. it’s a disaster waiting to happen, b. they are happy being part of the UK, c. they distrust Mr Salmon.

The one or two SNP supporters I have talked to seem to use independence as a thin veil over, I hate the English and all the stand for and when challenged in relation to defence, money, Oil just go off into a rant, which does there cause not service at all.

The problem is so many people think it’s never going to happen, that they a lulled in to a false sense of security and think, I am not going to vote they will never get in, we need to get out and vote, no.

Thats a real possibility. along with the voting age being lowered to 16 years. i know when i was sixteen i was not politically savvy enough to make a informed decision. and wonder how many at that age are?

[questionmark]

in related news:

Scottish independence: Alex Salmond 'reveals currency Plan B'

Alex Salmond appears to have revealed his Plan B for an independent Scotland's currency after saying that the country will keep the pound even if the UK won't enter a currency union.

The First Minister told BBC's Today programme that the currency debate was "not a question of keeping the pound" but about the circumstances in which it would be retained.

The comments suggest that Scotland would adopt so-called "sterlingisation" if the Westminster parties made good their promise not to agree a currency union after independence.

read more

[stevewinn]

Its even worse than plan A. the SNP are on the backfoot, they aren't even setting the agenda anymore, just reactionary. i said it the other day the SNP have left no room for manoeuver. surely all credibility has gone, evidence by Plan B, it wont be long before their on Plan X, Y, or even Z. Alex Salmond, SNP, we'll join the Euro, - the pound sterling is the millstone around Scotlands neck, praising the Tiger economies as a blue print for a future independent Scotland which ended in bankruptcy and bailouts. the SNP's EU legal advice which they kept private, refusing to disclosed the advice given.

About-turn. assumed they'll continue to use the pound, backed by the bank of England. that was shot down in flames along with EU and Euro Membership. i mean c'mon, its getting ridiculous. i see they are now moving onto oil/north sea as their Saviour. even that will leave the SNP with a 7 Billion shortfall. so that means a 12% cut or a tax rise coming the way for a independent Scotland's noway around it. or they'll have to borrow on the world markets at a minimum 6% interest rate. but it raises the question who are they going to lend off? whose going to loan to a Scotland led by the SNP who have said they wont payback a share of the UK's National debt. a defaulter before they've even started, who on the world market will take the risk.

Edited February 24, 2014 by stevewinn

[Harry_Dresden]

Its even worse than plan A. the SNP are on the backfoot, they aren't even setting the agenda anymore, just reactionary. i said it the other day the SNP have left no room for manoeuver. surely all credibility has gone, evidence by Plan B, it wont be long before their on Plan X, Y, or even Z. Alex Salmond, SNP, we'll join the Euro, - the pound sterling is the millstone around Scotlands neck, praising the Tiger economies as a blue print for a future independent Scotland which ended in bankruptcy and bailouts. the SNP's EU legal advice which they kept private, refusing to disclosed the advice given.

About-turn. assumed they'll continue to use the pound, backed by the bank of England. that was shot down in flames along with EU and Euro Membership. i mean c'mon, its getting ridiculous. i see they are now moving onto oil/north sea as their Saviour. even that will leave the SNP with a 7 Billion shortfall. so that means a 12% cut or a tax rise coming the way for a independent Scotland's noway around it. or they'll have to borrow on the world markets at a minimum 6% interest rate. but it raises the question who are they going to lend off? whose going to loan to a Scotland led by the SNP who have said they wont payback a share of the UK's National debt. a defaulter before they've even started, who on the world market will take the risk.

David Cameron would "absolutely" support an independent Scotland's application to join the European Union, he told STV Political Editor Bernard Ponsonby.

Speaking in Aberdeen, the Prime Minister said such a move "would not be his choice" but he would submit to the will of the Scottish people in the event of a Yes vote in September.

Mr Cameron added: "But it's not my choice about how EU applications work. It's a matter for the EU and the EU have said very clearly that Scotland would have to join the queue of other countries in order to rejoin."

He went on to accuse the First Minister of dishonesty in his stance that an independent Scotland would automatically be admitted to the EU.

Source: http://news.stv.tv/politics/265247-david-cameron-would-support-an-independent-scotlands-eu-membership/

...speaking of about-turns, looks like Cameron's a champion...I suspect this won't be the first or the last time that Cameron does an about face. Cameron and his side-kick Osborne, lack any credibility and backbone and should stay outta the debate since they haven't pre-negotiated in good faith. Westminster has lied to the Scottish electorate and Salmond has proven that Spain and Great Britain are only interested in stopping their respective nations from fragmenting and not about listening to the people...of course eventually they will cause the ONLY guarantee that they have on keeping their little empires going (at least in a informal way) is not only including them into the EU BUT also helping them adjust financially. Here's a prediction...if the Scottish electorate votes YES...watch Flip Flopping Cameron and Osborne offer a pound Sterling zone to the Scots!

[stevewinn]

David Cameron would "absolutely" support an independent Scotland's application to join the European Union, he told STV Political Editor Bernard Ponsonby.

Speaking in Aberdeen, the Prime Minister said such a move "would not be his choice" but he would submit to the will of the Scottish people in the event of a Yes vote in September.

Mr Cameron added: "But it's not my choice about how EU applications work. It's a matter for the EU and the EU have said very clearly that Scotland would have to join the queue of other countries in order to rejoin."

He went on to accuse the First Minister of dishonesty in his stance that an independent Scotland would automatically be admitted to the EU.

Source: http://news.stv.tv/p...-eu-membership/

...speaking of about-turns, looks like Cameron's a champion...I suspect this won't be the first or the last time that Cameron does an about face. Cameron and his side-kick Osborne, lack any credibility and backbone and should stay outta the debate since they haven't pre-negotiated in good faith. Westminster has lied to the Scottish electorate and Salmond has proven that Spain and Great Britain are only interested in stopping their respective nations from fragmenting and not about listening to the people...of course eventually they will cause the ONLY guarantee that they have on keeping their little empires going (at least in a informal way) is not only including them into the EU BUT also helping them adjust financially. Here's a prediction...if the Scottish electorate votes YES...watch Flip Flopping Cameron and Osborne offer a pound Sterling zone to the Scots!

How has Cameron done an about-turn? he's never stated he'd block an independent Scotland from applying to join the EU, because he knows others in the EU will. And its just not Spain or Britain who have a interest in stopping separatist movements. there is a vested interest by a whole host of EU countries, the Netherlands, Belgium. Germany, France to name a few, you only have to look at a map of continental Europe to understand Historically why road blocks would be placed in Scotland's way. look at all the annexations in Europe, look at Europe before and after the congress of Vienna. once you understand this you'll see why this issue is bigger than Scotland and why the EU and EU members will be reluctant in supporting Scottish independence, its nothing personal its politics.

[Harry_Dresden]

Er...why? Funny how it's ok for the Scots to be nationalistic but when the English try it, its suddenly accused of all sorts of xenophobia.

...can't see how you came to that conclusion (xenophobia). Cameron clearly stated that the referendum is among Scots and nothing to do with the rest of the UK...even though he has continuously entered the fray, he refuses to openly debate with Salmond. Scottish nationalist is between the Scots why should the English have any reason to be nationalistic in what happens in Scotland?

[Space Commander Travis]

Why do you assume that questioning whether Mr. S really has any plans other than assuming he can take what he wants to is nationalistic zenophobia? People are merely trying to point out that the people of Scotland might make a serious error if they voted for Freedom based merely on nationalistic fervour and resentment against the English Oppressors. If Mr. S had any serious plans beyond merely assuming that he'd be able to take anything he wants to, then I'm sure everyone would wish them the very best of luck in all their future endeavours.

Anyway, think of this: if the bullying and zenophobic English really did hate the Scots, they might perhaps, if Cameron was as machiavellian and devious as you insist, be only too eager to see Scotland gain its Freedom, knowing that, since Mr. Salmon has no realistic plans, he'd most probably make a prize cok-up of it, and so the Scots would suffer poverty and hardship as the result of electing an incompetent leader.

[Harry_Dresden]

How has Cameron done an about-turn? he's never stated he'd block an independent Scotland from applying to join the EU, because he knows others in the EU will. And its just not Spain or Britain who have a interest in stopping separatist movements. there is a vested interest by a whole host of EU countries, the Netherlands, Belgium. Germany, France to name a few, you only have to look at a map of continental Europe to understand Historically why road blocks would be placed in Scotland's way. look at all the annexations in Europe, look at Europe before and after the congress of Vienna. once you understand this you'll see why this issue is bigger than Scotland and why the EU and EU members will be reluctant in supporting Scottish independence, its nothing personal its politics.

The EU is based on principles and common sense that outweighs the knee jerk reactions of the de jeur politicians of the day that govern in their member states, including those that currently govern the UK and Spain. The entire EU premise is based on empowering regions and connecting to them directly to Brussels, it's what scares the British establishment and why Cameron and past politicians have played the British electorate as fools by bringing on this in/out referendum. But scaremongering only works to a point. and you're right it's bigger than Scotland and also bigger than the vanity of certain members. in the end common sense will prevail as the case with Spain and will with Britain...

Spain will not oppose Scottish EU entry: foreign minister

Spanish Foreign Minister José Manuel García-Margallo has stated that should Scotland elect to break away from the United Kingdom, Spain will not oppose the move because it does not have any bearing on the internal affairs of the country. “If the Constitution of the United Kingdom permits – and it seems that it does – that Scotland call a referendum on their possible independence, we will say nothing on the matter,” he said in an interview with the Financial Times.

Source: http://elpais.com/elpais/2014/02/03/inenglish/1391425089_214995.html

[Harry_Dresden]

Why do you assume that questioning whether Mr. S really has any plans other than assuming he can take what he wants to is nationalistic zenophobia? People are merely trying to point out that the people of Scotland might make a serious error if they voted for Freedom based merely on nationalistic fervour and resentment against the English Oppressors. If Mr. S had any serious plans beyond merely assuming that he'd be able to take anything he wants to, then I'm sure everyone would wish them the very best of luck in all their future endeavours.

Anyway, think of this: if the bullying and zenophobic English really did hate the Scots, they might perhaps, if Cameron was as machiavellian and devious as you insist, be only too eager to see Scotland gain its Freedom, knowing that, since Mr. Salmon has no realistic plans, he'd most probably make a prize cok-up of it, and so the Scots would suffer poverty and hardship as the result of electing an incompetent leader.

I'm assuming that you're directing your comment to me ? I don't know why you both make that assumption since I've never implied or stated otherwise that xenophobia had a part in these debates.. as far as I'm concerned it's about power and control and not racist in any way. The political and nationalist aspirations of the Scots have nothing to do with the English and vice versa. In fact whether Scotland elects to stay in the union is Scotland's business just like whether the English wish to part of the Union too. Neither OWN the UK but both are members.

[skookum]

Seems the first big company is threatening to jump ship over the pound.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26362321

Won't effect Salmond as he believes the whole of Scotland are going to work in the oil industry.

[stevewinn]

Seems the first big company is threatening to jump ship over the pound.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-26362321

Won't effect Salmond as he believes the whole of Scotland are going to work in the oil industry.

also add to that list, TSB Bank, which is part of the Lloyds banking group.

Lloyds Banking Group has opted to domicile TSB in England rather than Scotland ahead of the new bank’s £1.5bn stock market float.

In a move which will be taken by some as another sign that big business is increasingly concerned about the prospect of an independent Scotland.

http://www.telegraph...ears-mount.html

http://www.thisismon...o=feeds-newsxml

Lloyds offshoot TSB moves out of Scotland as independence worries grow

Lloyds offshoot TSB is to be domiciled in London amid growing fears of an independent Scotland.

The move raises questions over the future of the state-backed lender north of the border if there is a ‘yes’ vote in September’s referendum.

Edited February 27, 2014 by stevewinn

[stevewinn]

The EU is based on principles and common sense that outweighs the knee jerk reactions of the de jeur politicians of the day that govern in their member states, including those that currently govern the UK and Spain. The entire EU premise is based on empowering regions and connecting to them directly to Brussels, it's what scares the British establishment and why Cameron and past politicians have played the British electorate as fools by bringing on this in/out referendum. But scaremongering only works to a point. and you're right it's bigger than Scotland and also bigger than the vanity of certain members. in the end common sense will prevail as the case with Spain and will with Britain...

Spain will not oppose Scottish EU entry: foreign minister

Spanish Foreign Minister José Manuel García-Margallo has stated that should Scotland elect to break away from the United Kingdom, Spain will not oppose the move because it does not have any bearing on the internal affairs of the country. “If the Constitution of the United Kingdom permits – and it seems that it does – that Scotland call a referendum on their possible independence, we will say nothing on the matter,” he said in an interview with the Financial Times.

Source: http://elpais.com/el...089_214995.html

Its called being Diplomatic, when the time comes for negotiations to start you'll find, as you've been warned by the EU President and head of EU commission Barroso. stating it will be very difficult. if not impossible for Scotland. you can choose to ignore that warning.

Edited February 27, 2014 by stevewinn

[CharlieChalk]

Why is every political party at Westminster DESPERATE to thwart Scotland's bid for independence and keep us in the union?

Why is the UK govt pulling out all the stops on this, using every dirty trick, favour owed and leverage they have to force a no vote?

Why is there a level of unity over this between different Westminster political parties to keep scotland in the union never before seen over any issue ever?

Suggestions...I know why, a lot of Scots do, but sadly it is looking like not enough, what are your thoughts?

[CharlieChalk]

A few facts to consider, these are all facts google them if you don't believe me

Scotland is a net contributor to the UK, its pays in more than it gets out. There are only 2 parts of the UK where this is the case - scotland and London. This has been the case each and every year since accurate records began in 1980.

Scotland's budget deficit is approx half the UK's proportionally

If it left the UK, scotland would inherit approx 150 billion debt, assets worth approx 150 billion and oil worth over a trillion

An independent scotland would have AAA credit rating. The UK currently has AA.

Scotland has 59 mp's, 1 is a Tory, but we still have a Tory govt and prime minister. This is called the democratic deficit.

Scotland pays 3.5 billion for defence every year, less than 2 billion is actually spent defending scotland, the rest goes to helping the UK attack other countries, something an independent scotland would have no interest in doing.

Things like the bank of England, embassies etc are UK assets scotland has helped fund, therefore it owns a share of these things. The same is true of all UK military hardware, scotland owns approx 10% of these and would be entitled to that if it became independent

Edited March 6, 2014 by CharlieChalk

[stevewinn]

Why is every political party at Westminster DESPERATE to thwart Scotland's bid for independence and keep us in the union?

Why is the UK govt pulling out all the stops on this, using every dirty trick, favour owed and leverage they have to force a no vote?

Why is there a level of unity over this between different Westminster political parties to keep scotland in the union never before seen over any issue ever?

Suggestions...I know why, a lot of Scots do, but sadly it is looking like not enough, what are your thoughts?

Its most probably because if Scotland vote YES, it would mean the Tory party would dominate the general elections, the only way Labour can come to government is by their percentage of the Scottish Vote, so take that away and like i've said the Tory party would more or less be unchallenged giving us a permanent Tory majority at Westminster -

ending all hopes of Labour forming a government in the near and distant future, for example Labour would lose 41 seats. the Tories would lose just one. - So when Salmond and the SNP say Scottish Votes dont influence the overall election result - what i have just explained Blows away that notion - that Scottish voters dont have any influence on the UK's government. So Its clear they Scottish voters DO have a influence far beyond their numbers on the outcome of general elections.

another reason why they dont want Scotland to leave the UK is the simple fact they dont want to be the ones in charge when history records the break up of the UK.

[CharlieChalk]

Haha that's so lame why not be adult and just admit the truth, if that was the case why is the TORY govt also desperate to keep us? Answer that Sherlock, its cause we subsidise the UK and always have. They know it even if you don't.

Edited March 6, 2014 by CharlieChalk

[CharlieChalk]

Another fact. Very very pertinent. In 1974 the UK govt commissioned a study of what the finances of an independent scotland would look like. The answer, quoting verbatim, was that 'an independent scotland would have embarrassingly large tax surpluses'. Google mcrone report. The UK govt buried this report for over 30 years until a foi request unearthed it in 2005. Better together eh.

Edited March 6, 2014 by CharlieChalk