UK to Scotland: Walk away, lose the pound

[CharlieChalk]

The UK will soon have debts of 1.6 trillion pounds. Norway has a surplus of almost a trillion.

Scotland has 5 of the world's top 200 universities, for a nation of only 5.3 million.

Scotland produces 25% of the EU's renewable energy, has the EU's largest oil deposits, and has an abundance of natural resources of all types. The UK does not even have enough fresh water for its citizens and imports gas.

[CharlieChalk]

If the UK refused to enter into a currency union it would cost English businesses over 500 million pounds in transaction charges annually. They cannot afford this.

[stevewinn]

A few facts to consider, these are all facts google them if you don't believe me

Scotland is a net contributor to the UK, its pays in more than it gets out. There are only 2 parts of the UK where this is the case - scotland and London. This has been the case each and every year since accurate records began in 1980.

Scotland's budget deficit is approx half the UK's proportionally

If it left the UK, scotland would inherit approx 150 billion debt, assets worth approx 150 billion and oil worth over a trillion

An independent scotland would have AAA credit rating. The UK currently has AA.

Scotland has 59 mp's, 1 is a Tory, but we still have a Tory govt and prime minister. This is called the democratic deficit.

Scotland pays 3.5 billion for defence every year, less than 2 billion is actually spent defending scotland, the rest goes to helping the UK attack other countries, something an independent scotland would have no interest in doing.

Things like the bank of England, embassies etc are UK assets scotland has helped fund, therefore it owns a share of these things. The same is true of all UK military hardware, scotland owns approx 10% of these and would be entitled to that if it became independent

Before you vote, just research the points you have raised above more carefully, don't use campaign websites ect.. because for all the points you have raised the answers are available on official government department websites.

Charliechalk you are getting over excited, calm down, just make all your points in one post, then give it a bit of time and im sure people will reply to your posts.

Edited March 6, 2014 by stevewinn

[CharlieChalk]

I have a politics degree, I've been researching all this stuff for 20 years. Everything I have said so far is true and I have read some of the nonsense you have spouted in this thread too, I notice you don't seem quite so vociferous in your racist diatribe now that someone who knows you tell lies is here to pick you up on them.

[CharlieChalk]

The guy who unearthed the mcrone report showing Westminster had lied to scotland over its own wealth for 30 years was on my course, believe me I have researched all this thoroughly already.

[CharlieChalk]

Another fact, though I'm a Republican, its actually Scotland's queen, yet you have the cheek to talk about us wanting to take the royal family as if its an unreasonable position to take, its OUR royal family more than it is yours and union of crowns preceded union of parliaments anyway.

[CharlieChalk]

Scotland voted for devolution in 1979, but was cheated out of it by Westminster who rigged the vote. Another fact. We then voted for it again in 1999.

[stevewinn]

Nurse Nurse, He's out of Bed again. You really haven't got the hang of how a forum works have you.

[CharlieChalk]

See that's all youve got now, gone are the long winded rants of previous pages as you know I know you were lying in all of them. Which I find highly offensive when you are talking about my country.

[Space Commander Travis]

Why is every political party at Westminster DESPERATE to thwart Scotland's bid for independence and keep us in the union?

Why is the UK govt pulling out all the stops on this, using every dirty trick, favour owed and leverage they have to force a no vote?

Why is there a level of unity over this between different Westminster political parties to keep scotland in the union never before seen over any issue ever?

Suggestions...I know why, a lot of Scots do, but sadly it is looking like not enough, what are your thoughts?

Because it's all a conspiracy because they all hate the Scots?

If that is so, as I've said before, why would they be so anxious to compel them to stay as part of the UK? Wouldn't they be glad to see the back of them? Are they afraid that they'd start plotting in cooperation with the EU against Enngland or something?

[Space Commander Travis]

See that's all youve got now, gone are the long winded rants of previous pages as you know I know you were lying in all of them. Which I find highly offensive when you are talking about my country.

possibly because anyone would want a breather after a dozen consecutive posts which seem to be becoming increasingly ranty?

[stevewinn]

See that's all youve got now, gone are the long winded rants of previous pages as you know I know you were lying in all of them. Which I find highly offensive when you are talking about my country.

I cannot understand why someone like yourself with a degree in politics felt the need to ask the question you did in your very first post, surely you should have known the answer. But its clear you just want to rant, nothing wrong with that.

Okay. what is a independent Scotland going to do about their Currency, the SNP have been told the United Kingdom will not enter into a currency Union. So that is dead in the water. what is the current plan?

How would an independent Scotland attain a triple A credit rating when they dont have their own currency, No lender of last resort and so nothing to guarantee or reassure the world markets and investors.

EU membership, both the heads of the European Union have stated it would be difficult for Scotland to join the EU. not even taking into account of the hurdles of getting 28 members to agree in the first place to allow Scotland to apply - But as your should be aware. any new country applying to join the EU has to join the Euro Currency, seeing how an independent Scotland dosent even meet the criteria of joining the Eurozone. Scottish membership would be atleast a decade or so away. what will you do in the meantime?

North Sea oil and Gas. the fall back bunker mentality of the SNP, we can explain everything by quoting North Sea oil. i've posted the figures previously, but im sure you know the numbers off by heart. how much in percentages as Scotland invested in North Sea oil and Gas. compared to the rest of the United Kingdom. (England Nr Ireland & Wales) You seem to think on day one of independence Scotland would own the full rights to the North sea. are the SNP going to reimburse the rest of the UK for the investment they have paid into the development of the North Sea oil Gas industry?

[CharlieChalk]

Because it's all a conspiracy because they all hate the Scots?

If that is so, as I've said before, why would they be so anxious to compel them to stay as part of the UK? Wouldn't they be glad to see the back of them? Are they afraid that they'd start plotting in cooperation with the EU against Enngland or something?

No, because scotland subsidises the rest of the UK and they don't want to lose that subsidy given the UK is virtually bankrupt already.

[Space Commander Travis]

how does it do that, then? Entirely from oil revenue? You're very, very optimistic, I must say.

[CharlieChalk]

I cannot understand why someone like yourself with a degree in politics felt the need to ask the question you did in your very first post, surely you should have known the answer. But its clear you just want to rant, nothing wrong with that.

Okay. what is a independent Scotland going to do about their Currency, the SNP have been told the United Kingdom will not enter into a currency Union. So that is dead in the water. what is the current plan?

How would an independent Scotland attain a triple A credit rating when they dont have their own currency, No lender of last resort and so nothing to guarantee or reassure the world markets and investors.

EU membership, both the heads of the European Union have stated it would be difficult for Scotland to join the EU. not even taking into account of the hurdles of getting 28 members to agree in the first place to allow Scotland to apply - But as your should be aware. any new country applying to join the EU has to join the Euro Currency, seeing how an independent Scotland dosent even meet the criteria of joining the Eurozone. Scottish membership would be atleast a decade or so away. what will you do in the meantime?

North Sea oil and Gas. the fall back bunker mentality of the SNP, we can explain everything by quoting North Sea oil. i've posted the figures previously, but im sure you know the numbers off by heart. how much in percentages as Scotland invested in North Sea oil and Gas. compared to the rest of the United Kingdom. (England Nr Ireland & Wales) You seem to think on day one of independence Scotland would own the full rights to the North sea. are the SNP going to reimburse the rest of the UK for the investment they have paid into the development of the North Sea oil Gas industry

.

how does it do that, then? Entirely from oil revenue? You're very, very optimistic, I must say.

You're very very misinformed. Google it.

Edited March 6, 2014 by CharlieChalk

[stevewinn]

No, because scotland subsidises the rest of the UK and they don't want to lose that subsidy given the UK is virtually bankrupt already.

5.3 million people of Scotland subsidies the UK's 56 million people. you cannot be serious, talk about bankruptcy. If Scotland was independent when HBOS, and the RBS banks went bust Scotland would have been bankrupt because they simply could not afford the £46 BILLION needed to save the banks. thank god hey for the UK and the Bank Of England.

[CharlieChalk]

I cannot understand why someone like yourself with a degree in politics felt the need to ask the question you did in your very first post, surely you should have known the answer. But its clear you just want to rant, nothing wrong with that.

Okay. what is a independent Scotland going to do about their Currency, the SNP have been told the United Kingdom will not enter into a currency Union. So that is dead in the water. what is the current plan?

How would an independent Scotland attain a triple A credit rating when they dont have their own currency, No lender of last resort and so nothing to guarantee or reassure the world markets and investors.

EU membership, both the heads of the European Union have stated it would be difficult for Scotland to join the EU. not even taking into account of the hurdles of getting 28 members to agree in the first place to allow Scotland to apply - But as your should be aware. any new country applying to join the EU has to join the Euro Currency, seeing how an independent Scotland dosent even meet the criteria of joining the Eurozone. Scottish membership would be atleast a decade or so away. what will you do in the meantime?

North Sea oil and Gas. the fall back bunker mentality of the SNP, we can explain everything by quoting North Sea oil. i've posted the figures previously, but im sure you know the numbers off by heart. how much in percentages as Scotland invested in North Sea oil and Gas. compared to the rest of the United Kingdom. (England Nr Ireland & Wales) You seem to think on day one of independence Scotland would own the full rights to the North sea. are the SNP going to reimburse the rest of the UK for the investment they have paid into the development of the North Sea oil Gas industry?

No I wanted to expos your lies in YOUR rants as they are massively offensive

Currency? The pound is plan b, though a plan b won't be required as there will be a currency union. Why would the UK govt impose transaction fees of half a billion pounds on English businesses? Why do you ignore that? They are bluffing and hoping the electorate buy it

aaa rating http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/independent-scotland-could-be-aaa-rated-standard-poors/

New EU members DO NOT have to join the euro you just don't have a clue what you're talking about, van rompuy and barroso don't actually get a vote and no countries at all have expressed any objections whatsoever to immediate entry for scotland, despite your lies to the contrary in this thread. Half the Spanish fleet fishes Scottish waters for example, their entire fishing industry is bankrupt overnight if we don't get in and they have already said they would have zero objections. Scotland's laws are already harmonised with EU regulations as we have been a member for 40 years. Here is some perspective on barrosos comments. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26278237.

Staying in the UK, however, is a risk to our EU membership status as Cameron has promised a referendum on UK EU membership in the next parliament, and England is a very xenophobic, insular country which decides the outcome of all UK elections so may well decide we're leaving without us getting a say as always. You don't hear that side so often though and I note you haven't mentioned it.

Your last 'point' is pathetic, nothing under Intl law says you have to be reimbursed at all, will you be reimbursing us for the decades of tax revenue you have stolen from us? Didn't think so, and you don't have a clue anyway as exploration was and is funded largely by oil,companies not the UK govt, anything London spent has been repaid many times over with tax revenues on Scottish oil anyway.

[CharlieChalk]

5.3 million people of Scotland subsidies the UK's 56 million people. you cannot be serious, talk about bankruptcy. If Scotland was independent when HBOS, and the RBS banks went bust Scotland would have been bankrupt because they simply could not afford the £46 BILLION needed to save the banks. thank god hey for the UK and the Bank Of England.

Again you don't have a clue, banks are bailed out according to where they do business, that's why thef American fed paid for a third of the UK's bank bailout, that's what Intl law dictates must happen. If scotland was independent our liability would have been about 10% of the bailout, remarkably enough exactly the same!e as it was as,part of the UK.

[CharlieChalk]

And what is so hard to believe about scotland subsidising the UK? There are only two parts of the that pay more in than they get out scotland and London meaning scotland and London subsidise the rest of the UK what is so hard to understand about that? Yorkshire Lancashire Northumberland n Ireland wales Cornwall all of it is subsidised by London and scotland. The UK is broke and cannot afford to lose one of the only 2 productive parts of the country, that's why they're desperate to keep us.

[CharlieChalk]

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/11/scotland-12288-union-public

Scotland is 8.4% of UK population but generates 9.4% of UK tax revenues. What about that isn't a subsidy in your head? Not to mention we overpay for defence, which you would lose, and you would also lose the 90% of oil, gas and whisky revenues that you steal from us now. Subsidies, all of them. The UK is on its knees economically it cannot afford to lose us, hence better together.

[Space Commander Travis]

Are you usually this indignant about everything, or is it just the English oppressors that work you up into such a state of fury?

[CharlieChalk]

Its lies being told about my country from people that we subsidise that get me angry, you'd think you would at least be grateful.

[skookum]

North sea oil seems to be Salmonds plans for a rich Independent Scotland.

Sad truth is it is running on fumes.

http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21597890-scottish-nationalists-are-right-charge-britain-has-mismanaged-north-sea-oil-unionists

[CharlieChalk]

Is that why Cameron just announced an extra 200 billion in revenues over the next 20 years on top of current levels then yeah? Are they going to get that from selling thin air are they? You just don't have a clue. I live in oil territory they are currently taking on an extra 120 thousand staff for the industry and talking about the 2nd north sea oil boom right now as improvements in technology male new and deeper fields viable. You really have no idea what you're talking about.

[CharlieChalk]

Typical English breathtaking levels of ingrained arrogance and racism in the very first line of that tripe too

Scottish nationalists are right to charge that Britain has mismanaged North Sea oil. Unionists are probably right to retort that the alternative would be worse

Why on earth are they right to retort that the alternative (Scottish control of the oil revenues) would be worse are we just too stupid to handle that sort of thing are we? The country that has helped shape the modern world more than any other small country just couldn't have dealt with that efficiently could we? We're just not capable clearly, though norway managed and Qatar went from a hole in the desert to richest country in the world but scotland no chance we'd have just spent it all on whisky and Mars bars.