Hosts, instead of Mothers?

[Michelle]

My trusty urban dictionary says........... ...ooooooh!

You so bad.

[Awake2Chaos]

Can we start using the term "HILF", now?

LOL, best thing I've read today, thank you!

[Beany]

When Virginia started trying to make it a law women should have an ultrasound before abortions there was a major uproar. These women didn't want to be forced to see the fetus they were aborting. I'm pretty sure if anyone at the clinics started putting pressure on them by calling them the "mother" instead of the "patient" the outcry would have been tremendous. They aren't mothers and don't want to be.

I wouldn't want to be forced to have any unnecessary medical procedure. And let's keep in mind that many of these women already are mothers, folks, who maybe don't have the financial or emotional wherewithal to raise another child. Or maybe are having an abortion for medical reasons. Or maybe conceived during a rape. It's easy to make up stories about women we know nothing about, to portray them as cold & heartless, as not wanting children at all. Gee, 12 years old and pregnant, what do you think you'd do if it were your child? 23 years old and developmentally disabled? What would you choose? 18 and carrying a baby irreparably harmed by drug & alcohol use, and homeless. Most women are not casual about choosing abortion, and choose it only because it seems to be the best choice out of an array of no good choices at all.

[Yamato]

I wouldn't want to be forced to have any unnecessary medical procedure. And let's keep in mind that many of these women already are mothers, folks, who maybe don't have the financial or emotional wherewithal to raise another child. Or maybe are having an abortion for medical reasons. Or maybe conceived during a rape. It's easy to make up stories about women we know nothing about, to portray them as cold & heartless, as not wanting children at all. Gee, 12 years old and pregnant, what do you think you'd do if it were your child? 23 years old and developmentally disabled? What would you choose? 18 and carrying a baby irreparably harmed by drug & alcohol use, and homeless. Most women are not casual about choosing abortion, and choose it only because it seems to be the best choice out of an array of no good choices at all.

Kaboom!

I can answer one of your questions though. If it was my 12-year old daughter I would go beat my head into the wall for my failure as a father.

[Michelle]

I wouldn't want to be forced to have any unnecessary medical procedure. And let's keep in mind that many of these women already are mothers, folks, who maybe don't have the financial or emotional wherewithal to raise another child. Or maybe are having an abortion for medical reasons. Or maybe conceived during a rape. It's easy to make up stories about women we know nothing about, to portray them as cold & heartless, as not wanting children at all. Gee, 12 years old and pregnant, what do you think you'd do if it were your child? 23 years old and developmentally disabled? What would you choose? 18 and carrying a baby irreparably harmed by drug & alcohol use, and homeless. Most women are not casual about choosing abortion, and choose it only because it seems to be the best choice out of an array of no good choices at all.

I wasn't making up any stories...I know quite a few women/young girls who have had abortions for various reasons.

I'm well aware how traumatic it is for some to have abortions, who never get over it emotionally, but there are also the ones who are very flippant about it. Even more reason not to refer to them as mothers to a child they are going to abort, as if the guilt wasn't bad enough. To me, it would be tantamount to saying a mother would never abort a child and I would resent the inference of such a difficult decision.

[Beany]

Many women who choose an abortion are already mothers, and I think it's important to remember that. And that many of them choose an abortion not because they don't want the child, but because their circumstances make it very difficult to support another child and still take care of the children they already have. We're reducing welfare benefits, there's very little money available to pay for child care for low-income mothers who work to support their families, not enough low cost housing. Anyone know the demographics on abortion, broken down by age, socio-economic status, etc.

So when someone calls women who are in extremely difficult circumstances "hosts", there are a whole lot of assumptions being made, none of them in favor of the women. And I do believe that this is, among other things, a gender/gender discrimination issue.

[Beany]

Kaboom!

I can answer one of your questions though. If it was my 12-year old daughter I would go beat my head into the wall for my failure as a father.

There are people who very stealthily target young girls, pedophiles, who do a lot of damage before anyone realizes who they are and what they are about. Those are the heads that need to be beaten. Twice.

[spartan max2]

And if this guy referred to people getting abortions as mothers then im sure everyone would be making a fuss still lol

They would say he is calling them mothers to try and guilt trip them into keeping it. By making the association that they are killing there kid.

So either everyone will complain.

Edited February 26, 2014 by spartan max2

[Michelle]

So when someone calls women who are in extremely difficult circumstances "hosts", there are a whole lot of assumptions being made, none of them in favor of the women. And I do believe that this is, among other things, a gender/gender discrimination issue.

And we on the same page except for the terminology. I happen to be on those people who thinks a baby is from the time of conception. Others, usually pro-choice of which I am one, prefer to call it a fetus. Maybe it's easier to think of aborting a fetus than it is a child, but in my opinion they are the same.

[Michelle]

And if this guy referred to people getting abortions as mothers then im sure everyone would be making a fuss still lol

They would say he is calling them mothers to try and guilt trip them into keeping it. By making the association that they are killing there kid.

So either everyone will complain.

This is what I'm saying. In my 20's I once thought I was pregnant, after going to great pains to make sure it didn't happen. It scared the bajeezus out of me and I realized how traumatic it would be for me to have an abortion. If someone had dared to call me "the mother" I would have flipped. I didn't want to be and never considered being a mother.

[Leonardo]

If a pregnant woman, desiring an abortion, is not a mother, then what she is carrying in her womb is not a child.

There is no argument that can make only 1 side of the equation 'right'.

[supervike]

And we on the same page except for the terminology. I happen to be on those people who thinks a baby is from the time of conception. Others, usually pro-choice of which I am one, prefer to call it a fetus. Maybe it's easier to think of aborting a fetus than it is a child, but in my opinion they are the same.

That's exactly right.

I am pro-choice, too, but I agree 100%. Changing the name of it, does not change the act of what an abortion is doing.

I think abortion is a horrible thing, but I do not think I have the moral right to make that decision for everyone else...thus my 'pro-choice' stance.

But, abortion is killing a human life. All the fancy terms that can be used change nothing about that.

[Beany]

Abortion is a terrible choice, but sometimes it's the only viable one. It would be my wish that no woman should have to be in this situation, it's lose/lose. I'd prefer to see the fathers being aggressively pursued for child support, free contraception, more sex education in schools, child care subsidies for working moms, but there's a lot of people who would object to those, too. The fact is, if mom & dad break up, mom usually gets the kids and biggest portion of the financial and economic and psychological burden of raising the kids on an income, if she has one at all, that is usually considerably less than what dad earns. Every single mom I've known has struggled to raise the kids. And I'll bet a lot of you were raised by single moms who went without so you could that new pair of shoes, or football cleats, or an overnight trip to Disneyland with your classmates.

[Yamato]

There are people who very stealthily target young girls, pedophiles, who do a lot of damage before anyone realizes who they are and what they are about. Those are the heads that need to be beaten. Twice.

Yes I agree, and I think the punishments we dole out for violent pedophiles who act out on their perversions are appropriate.

Abortion is a terrible choice and we'd both like to minimize it, and so the question in my mind becomes, how? We're not going to get any reductions in the numbers from pedophiles and rapes since we both agree with abortion in those cases.

I think teenagers are going to act like teenagers and all the sex ed in the world isn't going to help. They know better, they just don't act better. They're teenagers with raging hormones. I remember the passion in my loins when I was a teen. I think my message of no vaginal intercourse until marriage is a fine message, what do you think?

Abortion should be an option; I get it. But it shouldn't be an option that's coddled with subsidies. I'm tired of government rewarding this bad behavior, or as we'd both call it, this terrible choice.

[Beany]

I think the pregnancy rate for teens has actually gone down, need to do a little research on abortion statistics, sometime between work & taking care of my house guests. Since everything in our bodies in our younger years is designed to assure continuation of our species, and self control is not a hallmark of teens, I t.hink contraception is the more practical answer.

[darkmoonlady]

Radical idea I know but instead of abortions, require every male over the age of 14 to donate a lifetimes worth of sperm to be stored and accessed free, anytime with no limits on inseminations in regional no cost sperm banks, then vasectomies. If every male could do that, no unintended pregnancies, no oops the condom broke, every child would be planned and wanted and no paternity suits. It will never happen of course because men wouldn't want the state in charge of their reproductive abilities would they? Oh wait women don't either..but we are expected to give visitation rights to men who rape us in the majority of states, forced to undergo vaginal ultrasounds to look at a fetus we clearly do not want, forced to drive out of state for abortions in a lot of states due to limited access, forced to carry doomed fetuses because their profound birth defect could not be detected inside the window allowable for abortions in some states, forced to carry a fetus to term while comatose in some states and referred to as a host not a person with rights...Amazing how mostly white, affluent religious men dictate politically the reproductive rights of millions of women away but never worry a day about their reproductive freedom. Wonder if the shoe were on the other foot how they would react?

[Beany]

What scares me about the right to life stance is that they seem to place more importance on the rights of the fetus than the women. I became pro-choice when I read an article in the newspaper about a woman whose physician recommended an abortion to save the life of the mother, all parties, including the husband and grandparents agreed it was necessary, then the hospital refused to allow the procedure or release the patient. She went full-term, had the baby, and a few hours later both died. And to call a woman a "host", demeans women. Anyone who can do that so casually should NOT be a participant in the decision making.

[Awake2Chaos]

What scares me about the right to life stance is that they seem to place more importance on the rights of the fetus than the women. I became pro-choice when I read an article in the newspaper about a woman whose physician recommended an abortion to save the life of the mother, all parties, including the husband and grandparents agreed it was necessary, then the hospital refused to allow the procedure or release the patient. She went full-term, had the baby, and a few hours later both died. And to call a woman a "host", demeans women. Anyone who can do that so casually should NOT be a participant in the decision making.

Where the hell was that? I would think that would fall under false imprisonment. That is absolutely terrible.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Awake2Chaos

[Yamato]

I think the pregnancy rate for teens has actually gone down, need to do a little research on abortion statistics, sometime between work & taking care of my house guests. Since everything in our bodies in our younger years is designed to assure continuation of our species, and self control is not a hallmark of teens, I think contraception is the more practical answer.

I as well. Prevention including contraception is the best answer I can tell.

[MeanieAndMe]

Where the hell was that? I would think that would fall under false imprisonment. That is absolutely terrible.

Unfortunately, women are more vulnerable to getting their lives hijacked.....either by rape, bad/abusive relationship, family beliefs, kidnapping, prostitution and other people imposing their beliefs on them. Women need to stop judging other women so harshly.

:no:

[preacherman76]

Calling a mother a host is akin to calling a baby a parasite. Why demonize either?

If we were to make abortion illegal, who would take care of all the unwanted children? Would we just have 'orphanges' for these kids? Who teaches them? Who funds it all? Those are some of the questions that go through my mind. I would never have an abortion myself, but I do think that women should be able to make the decision themselves.

I dont think we should make abortion illegal. Im just calling this out for what it is. Abortion is a necessary evil cause of low life scum who refuse to take responcibility for them selfs. Id say they are not much better then apes, but that would be a insult to apes. Ape mothers would never dream of doing such a thing. Some folks like to use the words rights, or choice. I say they are de-evolved scum. Not much better then dirt. Heck at least dirt serves a purpose. And society supports this evil. Instead of trying to turn around the slaughter of millions, its celibrated. Makes me sick.

[preacherman76]

If a pregnant woman, desiring an abortion, is not a mother, then what she is carrying in her womb is not a child.

There is no argument that can make only 1 side of the equation 'right'.

Accept what she is carrying IS a child.

Edited March 1, 2014 by preacherman76

[Leonardo]

Accept what she is carrying IS a child.

My comment was directed at the speech made by Sen. Steve Martin who chose to refer to the mothers as 'hosts' whilst still calling the child 'child'. Imo this was deliberate to denigrate women who choose abortion by dehumanising them. And this is why I said you can't make just one side of the equation 'right'.

If the mothers are 'hosts' then what they are carrying is not a child.

If we use words to dehumanise people, we only dehumanise ourselves.

Edited March 1, 2014 by Leonardo