Will the Antichrist be from Europe?

[MauriOra]

2 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Some people feel "indoctrination" is wrong, and thus can only be applied to "evil" teachings, and not the "good stuff" that they themselves practice, teach and promote. I think this is just naive.

Thankyou for responding Sir...

You have your own mind Sir and this allows you to think and Express freely...

INDOCTRINATION, does not allow for Free Thinking,  it is Limited and Set up towards an Agenda..

The Agenda of Mind Control..

The Good Stuff we learn is called Learning,...

The Not so Good is called Learning as well...

Naivety goes both ways my friend..

I Feel Strongly and Passionately, that indoctrination is Very Wrong..

Peace to you DC.. xx

Mo.. xx

[MauriOra]

13 minutes ago, Mr. Argon said:

Lets put it like this. Education, science, and all other similar things in cultural sphere which make a pillars of modern day society are biased in my opinion. They do have its benefits, a person learns to read and write, learns alot of stuff. But the tragedy of it all is that it is all agenda for narrow minded materialism and slavery of humanity. Yes, more material goods, yes medicine etc... but also spiritual emptiness, vain hedonism and greed. That is the problem.

Atamarie Mr Argon..

Yes...

That is the Problem...!!

*****

Mo..xx

[+and-then]

On 1/15/2018 at 1:47 PM, RavenHawk said:

I honestly am not sure how, but nuclear war is possible.  It’s not going to be like “On the Beach”.  The pale rider will bring the holocaust.  Satan wants death.  Death traps souls on Thulcandra.  Jesus provides a way through the veil.

A cataclysm is inevitable.  No God required for that outcome, we'll do it to ourselves.  The Savior will save those who WANT to be saved and the rest will perish, I guess.  I don't claim to understand it or to be able to judge what is ultimately just for humanity but I do know that we've proven ourselves incapable as a species of coexistence, long-term.  I take comfort in the fact that a day will come when the "mystery of God" will be revealed.

[+joc]

4 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Oh, it is possible. Just probably not likely. 

I'd agree that each parent indoctrinates their own children as best they can... Even if that is an indoctrination of not indoctrinating. 

It is just human nature to believe things...and whatever we believe...that is the truth.  Whether it is the actual truth or not is irrelevant...if one believes something, it is the truth to that one.  So, we naturally teach our kids what we believe.

For me it is not possible to return to that box of beliefs.  The whole reason I stepped out was to weigh those beliefs against the actual known truth.  It is one thing to weigh your beliefs inside the box....a whole different animal to step out of the box....walk a bit away from it...and then examine everything.  Because I have both a deep understanding and knowledge of all things in the box...and the same of all things outside of the box.  My conclusions were...for me...permanent.

[Illyrius]

1 hour ago, joc said:

It is just human nature to believe things...and whatever we believe...that is the truth.

If it is human nature to believe things, which I agree it is, i wonder why so many objective materialists and atheists desperately ask spiritual people for proofs of their beliefs and at the same time decline to present any proofs about their fanatical materialistic beliefs.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Mr. Argon

[Truthseeker007]

On ‎1‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 11:49 PM, RavenHawk said:

Yes, I think it is one entity as far as our understanding allows.  To explain this, I have to pull from the world of Flatland.  This is basically the story of a person of the 3D world that travels to the 2D world.  To keep things simple, how does a person in the 2D world perceive a 3D person?  The 3D person would have to step into the field of perception of the 2D person.  To us, that would be a cross-section.  The 3D person has an almost infinite number of cross-sections that the 2D person could see.  If the 3D person passes through the 2D plane, the 2D person could possibly see a whole legion of entities.  The Devil is an entity that exists in a dimension above ours.

So you may be referring to the Archons in the 4th dimension.

[+joc]

1 hour ago, Mr. Argon said:

If it is human nature to believe things, which I agree it is, i wonder why so many objective materialists and atheists desperately ask spiritual people for proofs of their beliefs and at the same time decline to present any proofs about their fanatical materialistic beliefs.

The answer Mr. Argon is that there is no proof needed for materialistic things...i.e. 'physical things'.  They are their own proof.   I don't need to prove that gravity exists.  I don't need to prove that the 'physical' exists.  I can measure it...I can weigh it...I can see it...smell it...touch it...feel it..hear it.  

Spiritualistic things are different.   All kinds of people believe all kinds of things 'spiritually' speaking.  None of which is provable.   So we ask for proof....the response is usually along the lines of...because I said so.

[Illyrius]

21 minutes ago, joc said:

The answer Mr. Argon is that there is no proof needed for materialistic things...i.e. 'physical things'.  They are their own proof.   I don't need to prove that gravity exists.  I don't need to prove that the 'physical' exists.  I can measure it...I can weigh it...I can see it...smell it...touch it...feel it..hear it.  

Spiritualistic things are different.   All kinds of people believe all kinds of things 'spiritually' speaking.  None of which is provable.   So we ask for proof....the response is usually along the lines of...because I said so.

I quite understand this. What i was refering to, and what was the main point of the post is.. Atheists and materialists are mostly DENIERS of the supraphysical realities, and for being a denier of such things you also need a proof on nonexistace of such realites. If you ask such a proof for existance from believers in supraphysical, then it is polite to offer a proof of non-existace of those realites. Otherwise it is just fanaticism like the fanaticism of medieaval clerics who vehemently fought against the idea that Earth moves around the Sun - for example.

 

Edited January 18, 2018 by Mr. Argon

[+joc]

12 minutes ago, Mr. Argon said:

I quite understand this. What i was refering to, and what was the main point of the post is.. Atheists and materialists are mostly DENIERS of the supraphysical realities, and for being a denier of such things you also need a proof on nonexistace of such realites. If you ask such a proof for existance from believers in supraphysical, then it is polite to offer a proof of non-existace of those realites. Otherwise it is just fanaticism like the fanaticism of medieaval clerics who vehemently fought against the idea of earth as a globe - for example.

 

There seems to be a flaw somewhere in your thought process.  I think it is along the lines of , You cannot prove a negative.  I can easily prove that trees exist in nature.  But if you say Purple Dragons made of Velvet also exist in nature....how is it possible to prove that they do not?

The best one can do there, is to explain why it isn't rational to believe in Purple Dragons because...of this reason, or that reason, because of this or that.  One cannot prove a negative.  And that seems to be what you are asking others to do.   

[Illyrius]

4 minutes ago, joc said:

There seems to be a flaw somewhere in your thought process.  I think it is along the lines of , You cannot prove a negative. 

I think this is a flaw in your thought process. Lets just logically... say that someone claims you are not a male - it is a negative proposition. You can drop the pants and prove  that they are wrong if they are.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Mr. Argon

[+joc]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Argon said:

I think this is a flaw in your thought process. Lets just logically... say that someone claims you are not a male - it is a negative proposition. You can drop the pants and prove  that they are wrong if they are.

They say...you are not a male...I say...I am indeed.  The question of proof there is on me to prove that I am...and so I do.

                                                                                        or

 The Being standing beside me is from the moon of Mars known on Earth as Titan.  I say, prove it.  You say, Prove that he isn't.

See the difference?

[Illyrius]

2 minutes ago, joc said:

They say...you are not a male...I say...I am indeed.  The question of proof there is on me to prove that I am...and so I do.

                                                                                        or

 The Being standing beside me is from the moon of Mars known on Earth as Titan.  I say, prove it.  You say, Prove that he isn't.

See the difference?

Yes, of course i see the difference. Some things are not easy to prove. I agree on that, and that what is not easy to prove belongs to a domain of belief or disbelief. Not into domain of negation or confirmation. That is the whole point.

[Illyrius]

I mean if someone vehemently claims "There is no such thing as non-material world!" -and offers no proof for the claim,

I may state the opposite with equal right to do so - and i have no proof either. There are serious scientific indications in quantum physics which strongy suggest that there are indeed realms of non-materiality. It was discussed on certain topics, and those who find it flawed... what can i say. They can only believe that material world is all there is.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Mr. Argon

[+joc]

15 minutes ago, Mr. Argon said:

Yes, of course i see the difference. Some things are not easy to prove. I agree on that, and that what is not easy to prove belongs to a domain of belief or disbelief. Not into domain of negation or confirmation. That is the whole point.

Things that CAN be proven...the domain of Provable Belief.

Things that Can NOT be proven...the domain of Un-Provable Belief.

I live in the Domain of Provable Belief.

[Illyrius]

7 minutes ago, joc said:

Things that CAN be proven...the domain of Provable Belief.

Things that can be proven and are proven are not in a domain of belief anymore. They are in a domain of knowledge.

Some things appear hard to prove like it was hard to prove that Earth moves around the Sun, because when viewed from Earth the idea that the Earth moves around the Sun looked quite ludicrous and hard to prove.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Mr. Argon

[MauriOra]

53 minutes ago, joc said:

..I can see it...smell it...touch it...feel it..hear it.  

Atamarie Sir.. xx

I can do these sensory things with the Material, or physical , like you can, 

And Energetically too, or Spiritually.

I am in Tune with Both Realities..

And, this is not just because I say it is so, it is also Because I KNOW it is so..

Peace to you Mr Joc..

Mo..xx

[+joc]

12 minutes ago, MauriOra said:

Atamarie Sir.. xx

I can do these sensory things with the Material, or physical , like you can, 

And Energetically too, or Spiritually.

I am in Tune with Both Realities..

And, this is not just because I say it is so, it is also Because I KNOW it is so..

Peace to you Mr Joc..

Mo..xx

Yeah...I've heard that before...do you know that you know that you know...something that cannot be proven?

Peace to you as well Mo

[+joc]

15 minutes ago, Mr. Argon said:

Things that can be proven and are proven are not in a domain of belief anymore. They are in a domain of knowledge.

Some things appear hard to prove like it was hard to prove that Earth moves around the Sun, because when viewed from Earth the idea that the Earth moves around the Sun looked quite ludicrous and hard to prove.

And some things are unprovable....so please stop asking us to prove that something is unprovable.  Again, it is always on the other one to prove that something is....not for us to prove that it isn't.

[Illyrius]

Just now, joc said:

And some things are unprovable..

Which things are unprovable?

[MauriOra]

5 minutes ago, joc said:

Yeah...I've heard that before...do you know that you know that you know...something that cannot be proven?

Peace to you as well Mo

LOOOLL!!!

Awesomeness....

Some....Thing can be proven, and The Unseen is Experience and Knowledge..

Also ENERGY.....thats been proven ...yes??

And that is what I work with..

Energy...!!!

Peace to you also Sir..xx

Mo..xx

[+joc]

2 hours ago, MauriOra said:

LOOOLL!!!

Awesomeness....

Some....Thing can be proven, and The Unseen is Experience and Knowledge..

Also ENERGY.....thats been proven ...yes??

And that is what I work with..

Energy...!!!

Peace to you also Sir..xx

Mo..xx

I know.  But you are involved with the Energy of things that are conceptual at best. Nothing wrong with that. Just saying.

Actually, I view the Universe as Infinite Energy, manifesting in an infinite number of forms, on an infinite number of levels, for an infinite number of reasons...few of which I am privy to.  I think the difference between you and I is...I put parameters around that definition.  For instance, 'infinite number of forms' means...an infinite number of  'physical' forms such as 'the wind' blowing 'the leaves' on 'the tree'.  An infinite number of levels means...for instance, the awareness of a Bull Frog or the awareness of a Komodo Dragon or an EarthWorm.   An infinite number of reasons...why the wind blows...where the tree is...etc.

Then, there is the Ethereal Plane Energy.  Unprovable...but not really.  It too is very real...but again...it exists within the parameters of the Physical Reality.   The magnetic forces at play in the Universe...not just in our own Solar System but throughout the Cosmos.  There are ...as you say...Things seen and Things unseen.  

There is also the Dark Energy.  The actual stuff that the 'space' between the stars is made up of.  Some believe it to be nothing...but there actually is no such thing as 'nothing'.  

But when you get into the 'spiritual world'...if there is anything that exists like Ghosts, etc., ...again...it is all physical manifestations.  For example...our brains put out alpha waves....who knows how these are intensified and swirled around by the magnetics of the Universe.  Can't prove they are at all...can't prove that they are not either.  So...my state of mind of reality revolves around that which can be proven...and I just don't spend much time on what cannot.

 

 

[MauriOra]

2 minutes ago, joc said:

I know.  But you are involved with the Energy of things that are conceptual at best. Nothing wrong with that. Just saying.

Actually, I view the Universe as Infinite Energy, manifesting in an infinite number of forms, on an infinite number of levels, for an infinite number of reasons...few of which I am privy to.  I think the difference between you and I is...I put parameters around that definition.  For instance, 'infinite number of forms' means...an infinite number of  'physical' forms such as 'the wind' blowing 'the leaves' on 'the tree'.  An infinite number of levels means...for instance, the awareness of a Bull Frog or the awareness of a Komodo Dragon or an EarthWorm.   An infinite number of reasons...why the wind blows...where the tree is...etc.

Then, there is the Ethereal Plane Energy.  Unprovable...but not really.  It too is very real...but again...it exists within the parameters of the Physical Reality.   The magnetic forces at play in the Universe...not just in our own Solar System but throughout the Cosmos.  There are ...as you say...Things seen and Things unseen.  

There is also the Dark Energy.  The actual stuff that the 'space' between the stars is made up of.  Some believe it to be nothing...but there actually is no such thing as 'nothing'.  

But when you get into the 'spiritual world'...if there is anything that exists like Ghosts, etc., ...again...it is all physical manifestations.  For example...our brains put out alpha waves....who knows how these are intensified and swirled around by the magnetics of the Universe.  Can't prove they are at all...can't prove that they are not either.  So...my state of mind of reality revolves around that which can be proven...and I just don't spend much time on what cannot.

Atamarie Mr Joc..

Thankyou very much for this my friend...

This is brilliantly articulated and I absolutely understand your view..

Again Wow..

I'll leave it at that..

And again...Brilliant..

Props to you Dude..!!!

Mo..xx

[+DieChecker]

On 1/18/2018 at 5:26 AM, MauriOra said:

Thankyou for responding Sir...

You have your own mind Sir and this allows you to think and Express freely...

INDOCTRINATION, does not allow for Free Thinking,  it is Limited and Set up towards an Agenda..

The Agenda of Mind Control..

The Good Stuff we learn is called Learning,...

The Not so Good is called Learning as well...

Naivety goes both ways my friend..

I Feel Strongly and Passionately, that indoctrination is Very Wrong..

Peace to you DC.. xx

Mo.. xx

Ahhh... But who defines what is Free Thinking? Who defines what is Good Stuff? You and I define these based on what we have been Indoctrinated with in various forms since we were children.

Myself, I feel that in almost every class, of every grade, of every day... at any (public, or private) school in the US, that they are Indoctrinating the kids. There is no way not to teach, and not Indoctrinate. The only way I can see there being no idoctrination in education is if the child is taught entirely by a robot/computer... Which would have had to have been programmed by a computer, which would have had to be programmed by a computer. Because even the computer programs a computer/robot would run could easily be bias to the thinking of the programmer.

Peace to you also. 

Edited January 20, 2018 by DieChecker

[+DieChecker]

On 1/18/2018 at 8:31 AM, joc said:

It is just human nature to believe things...and whatever we believe...that is the truth.  Whether it is the actual truth or not is irrelevant...if one believes something, it is the truth to that one.  So, we naturally teach our kids what we believe.

For me it is not possible to return to that box of beliefs.  The whole reason I stepped out was to weigh those beliefs against the actual known truth.  It is one thing to weigh your beliefs inside the box....a whole different animal to step out of the box....walk a bit away from it...and then examine everything.  Because I have both a deep understanding and knowledge of all things in the box...and the same of all things outside of the box.  My conclusions were...for me...permanent.

Like you said, the Truth is what each person believes. Thus "truth" is malleable, even in each individuals thoughts. To say permanent, IMHO, is denying that fact, since you might witness a miracle tomorrow. Or, if you knew you were dying and then passed away, and found yourself standing in front of Jesus/Mohammad/Whomever... wouldn't you then reevaluate? 

Edited January 20, 2018 by DieChecker

[+DieChecker]

On 1/18/2018 at 0:53 PM, Mr. Argon said:

I mean if someone vehemently claims "There is no such thing as non-material world!" -and offers no proof for the claim,

I may state the opposite with equal right to do so - and i have no proof either. There are serious scientific indications in quantum physics which strongy suggest that there are indeed realms of non-materiality. It was discussed on certain topics, and those who find it flawed... what can i say. They can only believe that material world is all there is.

I'd agree with joc, that the Physical World does not require faith to believe in. You see it and believe it. Science can be verified by repeating experiments/observations.

Religion, on the other hand... The Supernatural... is usually non-repeatable in a controlled environment, and thus requires faith to believe in.

Christianity is set up so that faith is basically a baseline requirement. Those who Believe without seeing the miraculous, and without need of constant reinforcement, are those who are considered most blessed.