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F3SS

Obama warns Russia

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Thelaw1

This administration has repeatedly laid down "red lines" only to fall silent when someone crosses those red lines. For example, using chemical weapons in syria was a red line. However, when the Syrian government used sarin on its defenseless civilian population, this President and the civilized world failed to act. When you tell a country if you do X then Y will happen, you better make Y happen if they do X. Otherwise, those are empty words and countries will not take you seriously then you threaten them.

It is ironic that Russia demands that we do not act in Syria because we are messing with another state's sovereignty yet they are so willing to invade Crimea.

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Sir Wearer of Hats

When has that actually happened since he's been president? If I remember correctly, it never has.

Well there was the assassination of Osama....

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F3SS

We should be ready for anything that happens to be our business;

Ideally, but that's not always how it goes. I'm not arguing the righteousness of it one way or the other. I'm just being realistic.

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scorpiosonic

Yahoo page Article headline, "McCain Offers Suggestions To Punish Russia" :rolleyes:

I guess US politicians don't know when to hush.

I'm all for being prepared, but what ever happened to, "Walk softly and carry a big stick." :unsure2:

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Big Jim

It used to matter when the President of the U.S. warned another country. Kennedy and Reagan had notable stare downs with Russia and won. But Obama doesn't have the same personal gravitas necessary to pull it off. Especially after the "red line" in Syria where he got in over his head and had to be bailed out by a deal struck by Putin. Issuing threats you can't back up only makes you appear weaker and more vulnerable and that invites others to try things they otherwise might not. Russia and the Ukraine have a history together that we can't fully understand. I see the current trouble as a family matter, no matter how messy and improper it may seem to outsiders. And as it is with other domestic squabbles it is often the police who are most in danger. Obama should practice the wisdom of restraint at this point before we get in too deep with a foe we can't bluff.

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Wickian

I think Russia's actions in Ukraine are justified and legitimate. That, because it has been under Russian control for hundreds of years. So many "borderlines" are fraudulent, drawn by cartographers. Ukraine is part of Russia, is my view.

Contrast that with the actions of the US government that has been invading and destroying, not necessarily in that order, foreign countries all over the world. Quite a contrast I would say.

And that contrast makes the US out very much to be a hypocrite of the highest order. :innocent:

My knowledge of the history in that part of the world is very limited, but wasn't the Ukraine part of Russia until the '90's?

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andy4

'''....nobody can attack us on our soil..."???!!! Do you really believe this?

I was thinking more along the lines of another actual country with a military, not terrorism. I should have been more clear, my apologies. I'm also not referring to a mutual destruction nuclear attack.

Edited by andy4
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andy4

I think Russia's actions in Ukraine are justified and legitimate. That, because it has been under Russian control for hundreds of years. So many "borderlines" are fraudulent, drawn by cartographers. Ukraine is part of Russia, is my view.

Contrast that with the actions of the US government that has been invading and destroying, not necessarily in that order, foreign countries all over the world. Quite a contrast I would say.

And that contrast makes the US out very much to be a hypocrite of the highest order. :innocent:

Yes, it sure is hypocritical, but it's still the pot calling the kettle black.

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andy4

Well there was the assassination of Osama....

Yes I agree, and have already covered that.

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Yamato

Ideally, but that's not always how it goes. I'm not arguing the righteousness of it one way or the other. I'm just being realistic.

Bah, and when you're speaking ideally, nobody ever comes and says this line to you I'm sure. This "logic" that because it already happens, somehow that excuses even more of it.

No, you're just confusing American Exceptionalism with realism.

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Babe Ruth

Well there was the assassination of Osama....

Yeah, years before Barack took office, and by someone other than the US.

Or did he die of natural causes related to his poor kidneys? I'm not sure, but I'm sure Abbottabad was a staged event.

Sorry for the OT.

Russia is holding all the cards in that little game being played, and they deserve to. Ukraine to Russia is like Mexico to the US--neither party is going to watch it go over to a perceived enemy.

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Babe Ruth

My knowledge of the history in that part of the world is very limited, but wasn't the Ukraine part of Russia until the '90's?

Part of the USSR, as I recall, but your general point is right on.

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F3SS

No, you're just confusing American Exceptionalism with realism.

Am I? So we don't need to be prepared for anything at anytime? Because??? Things you never expect can't or won't happen?

To be less than fully prepared, or as prepared as possible, is foolish. Don't be such a hippy.

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Thorvir

"Obama warns Russia"

Yeah, like that will work. How many red lines is Maobama going to draw in the sand this time?

Putin knows that Maobama is a weak leader and that the US will do little or nothing to deter Russia's aggression.

Because of our situation here, there's nothing we can or should do to stop Russia.

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Jeremiah65

The "need" for a super army and miltary power around the world is because we allow are corporations to go into third world countries and basically screw the people over. This in turn p!sses them off and they want to kill us...especially the neo-robber barons...so they lobby GOV to keep a big military up so they can continue to pillage the rest of the world.

You know this is a big reason. if we played fair and didn't exploit so many poor regions...not so many people would hate us and thus we wouldn't need a massive military to defend the elite's interests abroad.

Bah...soapbox moment there...

No one can get p!ssed at Russia's rise into "crony capitalism" or the Oligarchy of the rich Russian mafia...they learned it from us...Russia is looking to defend it's interests...which happens to be the same as the interests of their Oligarchy, Mafia and their elitists...just like us...

Edited by Jeremiah65
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A rather obscure Bassoon

A quote by Kerry which i already posted,"You just don't in the 21st century behave in a 19th century fashion by invading another country on a completely trumped up pretext," he said.

The Hypocrisy never fails to astound me..

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F3SS

The "need" for a super army and miltary power around the world is because we allow are corporations to go into third world countries and basically screw the people over. This in turn p!sses them off and they want to kill us...especially the neo-robber barons...so they lobby GOV to keep a big military up so they can continue to pillage the rest of the world.

You know this is a big reason. if we played fair and didn't exploit so many poor regions...not so many people would hate us and thus we wouldn't need a massive military to defend the elite's interests abroad.

Bah...soapbox moment there...

No one can get p!ssed at Russia's rise into "crony capitalism" or the Oligarchy of the rich Russian mafia...they learned it from us...Russia is looking to defend it's interests...which happens to be the same as the interests of their Oligarchy, Mafia and their elitists...just like us...

It's not about being plssed or fair. We do what we do and we've done what we've done. Like it or not that means we must always be prepared. If we were to get into something big I don't want to get our asses kicked in the name of global social justice. To be less than ready for anything at anytime means we ought to just bend over and take whatever comes to US in the name of fairness right up the chute.

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scorpiosonic

A quote by Kerry which i already posted,"You just don't in the 21st century behave in a 19th century fashion by invading another country on a completely trumped up pretext," he said.

The Hypocrisy never fails to astound me..

Well said. :tu:

Hawkin, sooo funny. :lol::D

Funny how no one, (Obama, the Media, etc.) has mentioned the 2 oil pipelines that may be of interest. :whistle:

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novabnt

My guess is that he's going to cancel some meetings with Putin and make an angry speech

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ninjadude

We should downsize our global presence but should always be ready for anything with anyone at any time.

we could cut military spending in half and still be "ready"

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ninjadude

My knowledge of the history in that part of the world is very limited, but wasn't the Ukraine part of Russia until the '90's?

No, it was part of the Soviet Union. Which no longer exists. Russia was also part of the Soviet Union.

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F3SS

we could cut military spending in half and still be "ready"

What do you care so much about spending for? You have said time and again that debt doesn't matter and as long as we can't print it we'll never run out of money. You just hate the military and want US cut down to size for the sake of it.

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Babe Ruth

As a civilian, I don't think many people hate the military. I cannot think of one person who hates the military.

But it sure p***es me off the way the government abuses the military, taking the country to war under fraud. Two wars under fraud, 3 wars four....

Like Ike said in 1961, beware the military industrial complex. His worst nightmares have come true with a vengeance. The tail is wagging the dog.

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Sir Wearer of Hats

What do you care so much about spending for? You have said time and again that debt doesn't matter and as long as we can't print it we'll never run out of money. You just hate the military and want US cut down to size for the sake of it.

explain to me please why you need to spend roughly half what the entire world spends on your military?

I can understand wanting to have a military that matches your importance on the world scene (case in point, New Zealand and their terrifying navy of one boat and a couple of canoes), but half the global expenditure? Are you getting ready to go to war with everyone?

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