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F3SS

Obama warns Russia

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Sundew

Well since we are comparing Putin, the KGB trained soldier....and Obama...the community organizer...I stumbled across this pic...sorry...it's funny and I have to post it...

Obamaunicorn2_zps63b2cc1e.jpg

Yep, for humor to be effective there has to be an element of truth to it. The horse however is too dangerous, might I suggest a golf cart?

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scorpiosonic

@ SWoH, I think it's a WW2 mentality that persists to this day. We 'have to' have the best fighter aircraft, the best Navy, etc.This is in part due to the former soldiers who have become influential politicians.

It's true, advanced military hardware is very expensive, but the US Military isn't well known for managing the allocated money effectively.

P.S. Well said, Babe. :tu:

Edited for content. :)

Edited by scorpiosonic
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F3SS

explain to me please why you need to spend roughly half what the entire world spends on your military?

I can understand wanting to have a military that matches your importance on the world scene (case in point, New Zealand and their terrifying navy of one boat and a couple of canoes), but half the global expenditure? Are you getting ready to go to war with everyone?

Explain to me why you care. It isn't costing you anything and we got your back if you need it. That said, you can take care of yourself for all I care. I said I would like to downsize our global presence. Basically, what's it to you Sir?

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and then

explain to me please why you need to spend roughly half what the entire world spends on your military?

I can understand wanting to have a military that matches your importance on the world scene (case in point, New Zealand and their terrifying navy of one boat and a couple of canoes), but half the global expenditure? Are you getting ready to go to war with everyone?

Funny, I don't recall much complaining from the rest of the world while we paid for the defense of Europe and Asia for 40 years or so. Now that we simply cannot do it any longer I guess we'll see if all the threats really are gone. Let's ask the Ukrainians how they see the situation, shall we?
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joc

explain to me please why you need to spend roughly half what the entire world spends on your military?

I can understand wanting to have a military that matches your importance on the world scene (case in point, New Zealand and their terrifying navy of one boat and a couple of canoes), but half the global expenditure? Are you getting ready to go to war with everyone?

No...we simply will control the entire world...it has been Moscow's quest for most of the twentieth century and all of this one...we/Russia...will control the world...that is why we need such a huge military...so that Russia can dominate

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joc

we could cut military spending in half and still be "ready"

Ready for what...Bengazi.... :w00t:

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F3SS

Ready for what...Bengazi.... :w00t:

But but that was... Because republicans cut security out of that budget, right? Right? Yes, I remember. I remember ninja yelling at us about that. I'm sure of it. So by that logic, it would seam that reducing money on defensive measures might result in a bad, unpredictable scenario. It either that ninja, or somebody wasn't issuing proper commands. You can't have it both ways, which is it?

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DieChecker

What do you care so much about spending for? You have said time and again that debt doesn't matter and as long as we can't print it we'll never run out of money. You just hate the military and want US cut down to size for the sake of it.

Ninja probably wants to cut military spending to pay down the National Debt..... ha ha ha ha ha... I just couldn't say that with a straight face...

He actually probably thinks that ALL military money should go to promoting Welfare, Unemployment, Disability and generally providing more money to promote the nanny state.

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DieChecker

A quote by Kerry which i already posted,"You just don't in the 21st century behave in a 19th century fashion by invading another country on a completely trumped up pretext," he said.

The Hypocrisy never fails to astound me..

It is the thugs that gain territory at the end of every Pax Roma. If no one stops them.... if everyone is too cultured to fight, then when the thugs take your house, you basically deserve it.

Kerry needs to go to Africa and tell the Central African nations that use child soldiers and commit genecide wars against specific racial groups there, that such things just don't happen.

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scorpiosonic

Ready for what...Bengazi.... :w00t:

Even the best military resources aren't worth a dam, if the decision is made not to deploy them.

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Sir Wearer of Hats

Explain to me why you care. It isn't costing you anything and we got your back if you need it. That said, you can take care of yourself for all I care. I said I would like to downsize our global presence. Basically, what's it to you Sir?

given that when America sneezes, Australia catches a cold, how you lot lead is a matter to me as we seem to blindly follow.

That said, for all your money spent on your army, whenever your country comes here for wargames your lot loses :P

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Sir Wearer of Hats

Funny, I don't recall much complaining from the rest of the world while we paid for the defense of Europe and Asia for 40 years or so. Now that we simply cannot do it any longer I guess we'll see if all the threats really are gone. Let's ask the Ukrainians how they see the situation, shall we?

A "defence" that benefitted the US first and foremost. The fact that we were protected as well was a side-effect of the politics at play.

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and then

A "defence" that benefitted the US first and foremost. The fact that we were protected as well was a side-effect of the politics at play.

As I said, let's ask the Ukrainians whether such help is needed these days. And I'm not complaining about the service rendered, I just get annoyed when we basically are being spit on despite our efforts over the years. Soon enough I suspect Oz will find itself needing to be allied with China and I doubt that will be much to the liking of those our age and older there.
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Yamato

When you tell a country if you do X then Y will happen, you better make Y happen if they do X. Otherwise, those are empty words and countries will not take you seriously then you threaten them.

Solution: Stop threatening other countries.

What did Obama threaten to do that he didn't do exactly? I've heard the threat of economic sanctions but those threats didn't come from Washington DC the way a neocon would prefer. As if, just the US is supposed to suffer economically because of what Russia and Ukraine are doing? As if, Obama rules the world? What are these ridiculously high expectations of Obama (and every other US President for that matter) really about? Partisanship.

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Yamato

Ninja probably wants to cut military spending to pay down the National Debt..... ha ha ha ha ha... I just couldn't say that with a straight face...

He actually probably thinks that ALL military money should go to promoting Welfare, Unemployment, Disability and generally providing more money to promote the nanny state.

I'm even more extreme than that. I want to cut almost ALL military money and spend it on NOTHING. *GASP!*

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Yamato

Any patriot sold on the necessity of having a gigantic standing army at all times will be a complicit partner with neocons and all other foreign interventionists in both parties. I can understand the argument that we might need to do the stupidest thing imaginable and quickly launch nuclear ICBMs at another country, and so therefore, all the spending required to maintain that capability must be adhered to. But maintaining huge standing armies in times of peace is counter to what our Founders told us. We can raise armies if there's a huge and real threat. Brave Americans would step in if one of the 50 states got attacked. If our military personnel are killed in an act of violence, if our embassy gets bombed, if our hardware is destroyed or stolen, people would step up.

Why can't the US maintain an average-sized standing army? Because we've got all this Exceptionalism crap to do, that's why. :D

How much does the world's 2nd largest military spend on its military? That's our spending limit on military. That's how to get out of other peoples' business.

Make no mistake about it, so long as the federal government is such a ginormous employer, the government will continue to find work for its employees to do.

So with a dynamic spending limit on military like that, I'd say it's problem solved. Now it's time to take the big axe to the next major spending problem. Peoplein our govt love to talk about balancing the budget. Ho man is that a politically popular football to throw around the room. But it's all just rhetoric when we're not willing to make real sacrifices. It's just a Nerf.

I've hear a lot of denials in discussions on this board, that we are even capable of balancing our budget. "Even if we cut military spending 100%, we still wouldn't balance the budget!" Who (what public figure) ever said anything about cutting the military 100%? That Strawman is 10 feet tall. There exists no such dove.

But since I want a real debate here, how about 75%? Let's shoot for that! Let's have some spending cuts. Military spending is welfare spending that's patriotic.

I must be crazy right? I mean, how can the Earth continue to rotate and revolve around the Sun without all that US military spending?!

Edited by Yamato
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Thelaw1

Solution: Stop threatening other countries.

What did Obama threaten to do that he didn't do exactly? I've heard the threat of economic sanctions but those threats didn't come from Washington DC the way a neocon would prefer. As if, just the US is supposed to suffer economically because of what Russia and Ukraine are doing? As if, Obama rules the world? What are these ridiculously high expectations of Obama (and every other US President for that matter) really about? Partisanship.

That's your solution? To have stability in the world, you need a strong America to keep all the knuckleheads in line. Otherwise, you will have total anarchy. I will say that we need to stop threatening over the littlest of things but this is not a little thing. With Syria for example, there is evidence that Syrian forces under Assad used chemical weapons. We told Syria if you use chemical weapons there would be a very strong price to pay. What happened? NOTHING. Russia knows, from this country's past experiences, that we will sit on our hands and do nothing. Putin read Obama like a book and called his bluff. Ukraine unfortunately has to suffer for it.

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spartan max2

Like we will do anything. And honestly I don't want us too. I am fine with military cuts, we spend so much on it. We have a couple hundred bases around the world. As Ron Paul tried to argue with the republicans when he ran for president. We could easily get rid of many of our worldwide bases and military presence without compromising a strong defense at home.

1780748_10152239980412726_1733548988_n.jpg

I think china lies about their numbers but here it is

defense_spending.jpg

Edited by spartan max2
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F3SS

given that when America sneezes, Australia catches a cold, how you lot lead is a matter to me as we seem to blindly follow.

That said, for all your money spent on your army, whenever your country comes here for wargames your lot loses :P

Really? Vegas would love to take bets on those odds. No offense but if we wanted to we could obliterate most countries before they even knew it was US, especially you. Don't make me post up the global firepower index again. Bragging aside, if we have so much of an effect on you then maybe you've got some self sufficiency issues that need looked at. Honestly, I have no idea what impacts we have on Australia in particular but I think this is more about knocking the big guy down to size than it is a real concern of yours.

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RavenHawk

Like we will do anything. And honestly I don't want us too. I am fine with military cuts, we spend so much on it. We have a couple hundred bases around the world. As Ron Paul tried to argue with the republicans when he ran for president. We could easily get rid of many of our worldwide bases and military presence without compromising a strong defense at home.

What’s going in in Ukraine is between the Ukrainian people. Do I think that Russia should stay out? Yes I do. I’m not such a fan of the EU and I think that Ukraine would do better for itself with Russia, even though Putin is a dictator. The EU should be challenging Putin to stay out and holding the pro West Ukrainian government to protect the rights of the Russian citizens. There is nothing we can do there. 6 years ago or so, this wouldn’t have happened in the first place. Georgia was just the first shot. Our inability to do anything in Georgia signed off on what is going on in Ukraine today. And it will continue.

In response to your diagrams, the reason we are still a free country is because of the fact of the 2nd diagram. That is the best welfare program this government could have established. In time, the white in the second picture of the 1st diagram will become red. If you don’t believe that, I would love to hear why you think so? Is it by chance the same thing that’ll keep Putin out of Ukraine? In fact it is what’s in red in the first picture of the 1st diagram which is not the job of the military.

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Kowalski

1969184_371087506365204_842420458_n.jpg

I think the US needs to stay out. None of our business. At any rate, any super power that has messed with Russia gets their butts handed to them on a platter, and goes the way of the dinosaurs. Napoleon, Hitler.... It's best to remember and take note of history.

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travelnjones

This crap has me worried! Obama is beginning to seem more like that fellow from North Korea. No respect on the world stage/ paper tiger image. He seems likely to do something stupid to appear strong.

How about we ignore our treaties and worry about US.

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spartan max2

What's going in in Ukraine is between the Ukrainian people. Do I think that Russia should stay out? Yes I do. I'm not such a fan of the EU and I think that Ukraine would do better for itself with Russia, even though Putin is a dictator. The EU should be challenging Putin to stay out and holding the pro West Ukrainian government to protect the rights of the Russian citizens. There is nothing we can do there. 6 years ago or so, this wouldn't have happened in the first place. Georgia was just the first shot. Our inability to do anything in Georgia signed off on what is going on in Ukraine today. And it will continue.

In response to your diagrams, the reason we are still a free country is because of the fact of the 2nd diagram. That is the best welfare program this government could have established. In time, the white in the second picture of the 1st diagram will become red. If you don't believe that, I would love to hear why you think so? Is it by chance the same thing that'll keep Putin out of Ukraine? In fact it is what's in red in the first picture of the 1st diagram which is not the job of the military.

When Putin goes in to Ukraine I predict that it will be his own downfall. It will only add fire to the Ukrainians determination and give more power to Putin's opposition in Russia.

We would still have our freedom if we spent less on the military. We have literally hundreds of bases around the world, if we got rid of those we would still have the same amount of defense at home, hell we could even increase our defense at home with the money we saved. Not to mention the fact that we are in debt trillions of dollars normally means cut backs have to be made somewhere. And intervening in places cost money. Plus with our economic power no one is going to war us, it would cost them greatly.

Our country has also shown that when the time comes we easily increase our military production.

But the main point is that Our military's job is to defend us not the rest of the world. If we got involved everywhere that has a problem right now we would be in Ukraine, Syria, Egypt, Venezuela, the Congo , We are still involved in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Not to mention that fact that Russia, China, North Korea and Cuba are still ruled by totalitarian powers. So should we get involved in all of those? Plus whatever countries didn't pop at the top of my head. When people want to get involved somewhere they are extremely selective about where and tend to ignore all of the other things.

When a power threatens us and our way of life then I am all far war. I'm not for intervening in everyone else's war though. And yes if we decrease our military spending then other countries might increase theirs. Good, why should we do all the work?

Plus when we get involved in places it never really is a black and white thing

We have this idea that if the U.S doesn't guard everything then the world will fall apart. We fought the Soviet Union(which the cold war is a war I agreed with) But it was ultimately the citizens of the Soviet Union who brought it down.

Edited by spartan max2
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Thelaw1

What brought it down was the fact that the Soviets couldn't keep up with our military spending and that caused the USSR's economy to collapse which forced the people in the Soviet Union to reconsider who they wanted leading them.

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Just Dave

Oh excuse me Obama is the leader of world aggressorrrr.... errrr police. Now they can go anywhere, do anything, kill everyone, or it was an accident...

1 small problem thou Russia will not break.. especially not versus US, and the other problem is that US is already making threat in the manner of speech. Leave Russians to solve their own problems at their own doorstep. Until some soldier from US or EU or Russia fires a weapon this will be restless but will not escalate... if they fire well.. i just hope it doesn't come from Us to Russian or vice versa then it can escalate to something we don't want to..

Point is Russians are defending their native people and certain bases, and i am glad they forced their way into Ukraine, Why? Because those radical groups would soon go on killing spree if there wouldn't be any hard military presence.

So go on and support the Ukrainian current baloney gov. which is made and supported by radicals.. to whoever supports them.

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