psyche101 Posted March 12, 2014 #251 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) Bla bla... Im not forbidding James to speak (like many of you do to people who believe in UFOs btw) It might seem rude, I didn't say that you forbid anyone to speak, and my post does not indicate that. But I agree you have been downright rude, and that is totally unnecessary in this instance. Jim has not provoked such a response from you at all, it's your personal mindset steering the conversation here. but its my opinion (distrust) of NASA .. And you keep dodging my question about Edgar Mitchell on it, but I bet you cite him as a "reliable source" for ET information. Your distrust seems very much baseless and only personal opinion that is swayed by the worst woo has to offer. All of your examples of Astronauts seeing "spaceships" were bogus. You on the other hand wont allow any other "truth" except yours to exist , at any cost That is absolute rubbish. It is the skeptical mindset to insist on information. Did any skeptic brush you off with a offhanded copy and paste? No! You were provided with extensive information from multiple sources. Do skeptics say "Do not read that?" No! They say, bring your information to the table, and lets evaluate it's veracity. Information get's a chance to prove itself, it's just that ETH information is made up and or non existent and therefore fails every time. Skpetics here were as amazed as I was to find birds use fire, I had to check it myself as I did not believe it, but facts proved me, and other to be wrong, and that was accepted. Why? Because it is a truth. Jim has said some things perplex him, I have stated the Portage case is as far as I see, unresolvable. Your comment is not only wrong, but illustrated as many examples right here at UM prove that. Edited March 12, 2014 by psyche101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted March 12, 2014 #252 Share Posted March 12, 2014 That's right. At any cost. I believe psyche101 has successfully forbidden many UFO believers from speaking on the subject and is willing to lay down his life and accept innocent bystanders as collateral damage in his quest to quash dissenting opinion on the subject of UFOs. Absolutely any cost is acceptable. Such is the oath I took when I became a "Man In Black". Got the sunnies, partners and everything, check em out. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimOberg Posted March 12, 2014 #253 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Bla bla... Im not forbidding James to speak (like many of you do to people who believe in UFOs btw) It might seem rude, but its my opinion (distrust) of NASA .. You on the other hand wont allow any other "truth" except yours to exist , at any cost Opinions of fact are different then opinions of flavor, or values, or aesthetics -- they become credible by a preponderance of supportive evidence and deductions. Since that depends on the local availability of an infinity of possible relevant items, people interested in better and better approximations of truth ought to desire all donated suggestions for new evidence. At least, I hope I do. But the only 'contra' arguments I.ve seen so far are of the type "I-can't-accept-your-conclusions" because folks don't feel like it. I've been proven wrong on this subject and I hope people can do it again where needed. Does anyone think I'm rejecting a better argument on any of these cases? Please try again for those cases. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimOberg Posted March 12, 2014 #254 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I believe psyche101 has successfully forbidden many UFO believers from speaking on the subject ..... Aren't we asking for checkable evidence, and if some parties withdraw, maybe it's not because they are 'forbidden' but because they realize they can't provide basic documentation apart from what they think they remember from some site or channel? There are discussion groups for such echo-chambers, but maybe here such an approach is exposed as imagination-driven and unworthy of credibility. Please, hang around and argue it out like somebody seriously in pursuit of better understanding. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted March 12, 2014 #255 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Aren't we asking for checkable evidence, and if some parties withdraw, maybe it's not because they are 'forbidden' but because they realize they can't provide basic documentation apart from what they think they remember from some site or channel? There are discussion groups for such echo-chambers, but maybe here such an approach is exposed as imagination-driven and unworthy of credibility. Please, hang around and argue it out like somebody seriously in pursuit of better understanding. Whilst there is some tongue in cheek in that comment which you referred to, OK, all tongue in cheek , I agree heartily. What we want is to see this "amazing evidence" nothing would be more desirable, but that's not what we see, we see personal opinion held up as fact. Indeed, bring the evidence to the table. Lets look at it. But honest evaluation is the only evaluation worthy of pursuing. Woo UFOlogy falls far short of the mark there pretty much every time. The best part about evaluating real evidence is that most of the time, both parties tend to benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilly Posted March 12, 2014 #256 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Personally, I don't want to have to 'fill in the missing pieces' or 'read between the lines'. I don't want to have to employ the notion that others are hiding 'all the good stuff'. I don't want to believe, I want to know. I've seen something, something very odd and I'd like to know what the hell it was. So yeah, bring the evidence to the table. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merc14 Posted March 12, 2014 #257 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Personally, I don't want to have to 'fill in the missing pieces' or 'read between the lines'. I don't want to have to employ the notion that others are hiding 'all the good stuff'. I don't want to believe, I want to know. I've seen something, something very odd and I'd like to know what the hell it was. So yeah, bring the evidence to the table. What did you see (link is fine)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilly Posted March 12, 2014 #258 Share Posted March 12, 2014 What did you see (link is fine)? Uh...a UFO of course. I saw the darn thing back in the 1970s (no 'links' then!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merc14 Posted March 12, 2014 #259 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Uh...a UFO of course. I saw the darn thing back in the 1970s (no 'links' then!). I assumed a UFO but was interested in the particulars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilly Posted March 12, 2014 #260 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Actually a pretty 'classic' sighting...disk shaped object, illuminated, hovering, seen by several people (including a police officer). No one had a clue what it was. It was the weirdest thing I've ever seen. So, you can understand why I'd kind of like to know (verses just believe) what's up re UFOs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Cursed Posted March 12, 2014 #261 Share Posted March 12, 2014 An up close personal sighting that was something more than just a light in the sky is really hard to dismiss, and can make one a hard core believer especially when the only thing that has ever come close to what you have seen has been on TV on one of those UFO shows. What I saw was back in 73' and if it was ours, by this time we would be selling it as surplus to 3rd world countries. So since I haven't seen anything that remotely resembles what I saw in any military show for the past 41 years, I can only conclude it wasn't one of ours. I can't lay an experience on the table, and it can not be examined. But it was sufficient for me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Cursed Posted March 12, 2014 #262 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) Where did you see this? Of course any names, dates, details of the "experiment", or anything that would pass for useful information would be helpful. Actually it was NASA's Unexplained files # 2 number # 3 just taped last night. It's on the SCI channel. Edited March 12, 2014 by Forever Cursed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendigger0 Posted March 12, 2014 #263 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Jim O. What are we to make of reports from pilots, like the famous JAL sighting over Alaska, confirmed by radar? I appreciate your want of hard evidence, i think we all want that. In the interim, what is the credibility level of all these (mentioned above) types of reports from credible people, supported by peripheral evidence, like radar, multiple witnesses? It would seem unwise to simply dismiss these reports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendigger0 Posted March 12, 2014 #264 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Actually a pretty 'classic' sighting...disk shaped object, illuminated, hovering, seen by several people (including a police officer). No one had a clue what it was. It was the weirdest thing I've ever seen. So, you can understand why I'd kind of like to know (verses just believe) what's up re UFOs. Yes... and is it reasonable to believe that 'government' has information about UFO's that 'they' are withholding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimOberg Posted March 12, 2014 #265 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Jim O. What are we to make of reports from pilots, like the famous JAL sighting over Alaska, confirmed by radar? I appreciate your want of hard evidence, i think we all want that. In the interim, what is the credibility level of all these (mentioned above) types of reports from credible people, supported by peripheral evidence, like radar, multiple witnesses? It would seem unwise to simply dismiss these reports. You're getting so far off topic I'm starting to suspect deliberate misdirection. What issues do you have with the collection of 'astronaut UFO sightings' and suggested explanations? Did you read the linked story on the X-15 debate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeder Posted March 12, 2014 #266 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Yes... and is it reasonable to believe that 'government' has information about UFO's that 'they' are withholding. which govt? As I seem to keep on saying, the US isnt the only one with space programs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendigger0 Posted March 12, 2014 #267 Share Posted March 12, 2014 You're getting so far off topic I'm starting to suspect deliberate misdirection. What issues do you have with the collection of 'astronaut UFO sightings' and suggested explanations? Did you read the linked story on the X-15 debate? The SPACE sightings are certainly problematic, since it's not a place most of us have any experience in; it's your specialty. i don't know anything about the X-15 debate. Not attempting any sort of misdirection, just value your opinion. What are we to make of the reports, like the JAL incident? What is the nature of this phenomenon? Is there really "nothing there"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendigger0 Posted March 12, 2014 #268 Share Posted March 12, 2014 which govt? As I seem to keep on saying, the US isnt the only one with space programs The U.S. will do... is it safe to suggest that the U.S. government is withholding information about UFO's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merc14 Posted March 12, 2014 #269 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) The SPACE sightings are certainly problematic, since it's not a place most of us have any experience in; it's your specialty. i don't know anything about the X-15 debate. Not attempting any sort of misdirection, just value your opinion. What are we to make of the reports, like the JAL incident? What is the nature of this phenomenon? Is there really "nothing there"? You should start another thread that directly deals with the JAL sighting. It would be interesting to dig into the details and see what everyone can find. Let us know here if you do. Edited March 12, 2014 by Merc14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Cursed Posted March 12, 2014 #270 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Jim I am on your site doing some reading and I came across "Waste Disposal' in space, and it's apparently Russian with English translation. And as I am reading a thought occurs to me. "That space eel may not be a piece of lint after all." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimOberg Posted March 12, 2014 #271 Share Posted March 12, 2014 The U.S. will do... is it safe to suggest that the U.S. government is withholding information about UFO's? The "US government" withholds data on cropland infestations, park service staff sexual abuse, and IRS persecution of White House political enemies, Your question is so poorly formulated as to be meaningless and unanswerable. Are certain government agencies interested in 'UFO reports'? You betcha. So what? What does that prove aside from the demonstrated fact that worldwide 'UFO reports' often accidentally contain detailed operational descriptions of flights of other countries' rockets and advanced aircraft. And that US military intelligence services would prefer their interest not be advertised, and that the controlled media in some of those countries NOT realize how much their publication of UFO stories aids foreign intelligence services. Do some US gummint agencies enjoy their activities be misperceived and misreported as 'UFO events'? And might some even encourage such camouflage? Sure, why not? I once had a buddy in charge of a 'Broken Arrow' away team who used deliberate 'crashed UFO' gossip to disguise his nuclear warhead retrieval exercises. Does NASA conceal astronaut reports suggestive of ETI craft? Every claim of that type can be traced to fantasies, frauds, and confabulations. This doesn't prove there is a separate space program with separate files but it reduces the likelihood pretty close to zero. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimOberg Posted March 12, 2014 #272 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Jim I am on your site doing some reading and I came across "Waste Disposal' in space, and it's apparently Russian with English translation. And as I am reading a thought occurs to me. "That space eel may not be a piece of lint after all." Georgiy Grechko tells a delightful tale of being spooked by some jettisoned trash bags [including potty material] that drifted back past his window. And when Apollo crew urine dumps flash-froze into yellow snowflakes the crew would joke about observing 'the constellation Urion." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimOberg Posted March 12, 2014 #273 Share Posted March 12, 2014 The U.S. will do... is it safe to suggest that the U.S. government is withholding information about UFO's? Regarding US spaceflight, Robert Bigelow launched two test satellites a few years ago with external cameras. Do you suspect HE would conceal any UFOs his space cameras spotted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scowl Posted March 12, 2014 #274 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Yes... and is it reasonable to believe that 'government' has information about UFO's that 'they' are withholding. What you're saying is even if the government isn't withholding any information about UFO's, it's reasonable to assume they are anyway. These kinds of assumptions are the basis of conspiracy theories which lead to nothing but silly books and cable shows. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendigger0 Posted March 12, 2014 #275 Share Posted March 12, 2014 i think your answer is: Yes? The 'government' is withholding information about UFO reports from the public. thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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