Iran Hasn't attacked anyone in 200 years

[RoofGardener]

.....You never mention the catalyst behind black September and it is genocide according to the definition of genocide written in Zionist dictionary.

Zionist dictionary ? Genocide ??

You have no idea what Black September WAS, do you ?

Actually what happened the IDF want the Palestinian to suffer so they did not let reliefs to enter Gaza

Presumably you are aware that the IDF where upholding official Palestinian Policy in doing this ?

Let me say that again.

The official government of the Palestinian People WANTED the blockade of Gaza to continue, and for the protest ships to be stopped.

This is not some sort of wacky conspiracy theory. This is official stated policy. (along - I might add - with that the of Egyptians).

[RavenHawk]

OK I got the point you doesn't agree with him so his comments are low standard.

No, it’s because I don’t agree with him that he seems compelled to attack and insult me or anyone that disagrees with him. That only garners ridicule toward him.

Don't care about Chomsky but Pappe. Does other people consider him unreliable?

I’ve seen other criticism of him and he is linked to Chomsky. They are just political troublemakers and that makes them unreliable. Every group carries ugly baggage and the people of that group must confront that ugliness. There are different ways of making people aware of this ugliness. As with many other things, there is a best way and a bad way of doing it. Some people thrive on doing it in a bad way. Those are the troublemakers because they then mesh that ugliness with all the evils in the world and project that onto the group itself. I must admit that I love to listen to Chomsky because I know that it doesn’t take him long to somehow blame the US for some evil done in the world.

I guess it's the Zionist version of history.

No, just history. I just don’t know why the Jews stayed and put up with the mistreatment by Muslims during the Ottoman period other than it was their strong belief that the Covenant of GOD still meant something.

Agree with you they never expressed anything they just do whatever they want since there is no one stopping them .

Like when the Arab League felt there was nothing to stop them from driving the Jew back into the sea? Seems like you are ok with the Muslim practicing EC on the Jews but Heaven forbid the tables get turned.

Israel also contained the desire to destroy Hamas and Hezbollah.

Well DUH! I wonder why? Hamas and Hezbollah are the lingering remnants of the Arab League.

You never mention the catalyst behind black September and it is genocide according to the definition of genocide written in Zionist dictionary.

Did I need to? The catalyst is that the Palestinians are troublemakers among their Arab Brothers and are basically unwanted. Those that absorb into the local culture or even the world do well for themselves but as a people are a plight on the Arab culture. I didn’t know genocide had different meanings? I guess when Arab is doing to Jews or other Arabs, it isn’t all that bad, eh? But Israel just gets accused of it, then that must be true.

Well they are not oppressing innocent people.

So you are admitting that the Palestinian are not innocent?

Since IDF destroys hopitals and facility is very poor for Israeli sanction they do not have much choice.More like someone make you put your hand inside of a hungry lion

Israel is the lion. If you don’t want a hospital destroyed then don’t base attacks on Israel from them. That is very simple to understand.

Actually what happened the IDF want the Palestinian to suffer so they did not let reliefs to enter Gaza

No, The IDF does not want arms to fall into the hands of the Palestinians that will be used to indiscriminately kill Israelis. The suffering is brought on by the Palestinians themselves. They keep sticking their hands in the lion’s mouth.

[DeWitz]

Discussion of the Middle East often provokes in me the question: In what century are we now living? Antecedents and precedents matter but are not, in and of themselves, any answers. If the powers-that-be and would-be are earnestly seeking a solution, they had better pay attention to those who think creatively, "out-of-the-box (in the current vernacular) and with vision. Yes, this includes listening to "the troublemakers" (@RavenHawk and others). Perhaps it means listening especially to them, who would wake up a rotten, jaded and obsessive set of so-called leaders currently avoiding "shake-up."

[RavenHawk]

Discussion of the Middle East often provokes in me the question: In what century are we now living? Antecedents and precedents matter but are not, in and of themselves, any answers. If the powers-that-be and would-be are earnestly seeking a solution, they had better pay attention to those who think creatively, "out-of-the-box (in the current vernacular) and with vision. Yes, this includes listening to "the troublemakers" (@RavenHawk and others). Perhaps it means listening especially to them, who would wake up a rotten, jaded and obsessive set of so-called leaders currently avoiding "shake-up."

Me thinks you didn’t catch what I said. So let me rephrase. Every group carries ugly baggage and the people of that group must confront that ugliness. There are different ways of making people aware of this ugliness. One way is to think outside of the box. As with many other things, there is a best way and a bad way of doing it. Some people thrive on doing it in a bad way. Those are the troublemakers because they then mesh that ugliness with all the evils in the world and project that onto the group itself. They take the ugliness out of context from the world and fail to gleam insight and motivation for its existence. Instead of thinking out-of-the-box, they accuse out-of-the-box. Instead of promoting solutions, they spread anarchy.

[DeWitz]

Me thinks you didn't catch what I said. So let me rephrase. Every group carries ugly baggage and the people of that group must confront that ugliness. There are different ways of making people aware of this ugliness. One way is to think outside of the box. As with many other things, there is a best way and a bad way of doing it. Some people thrive on doing it in a bad way. Those are the troublemakers because they then mesh that ugliness with all the evils in the world and project that onto the group itself. They take the ugliness out of context from the world and fail to gleam insight and motivation for its existence. Instead of thinking out-of-the-box, they accuse out-of-the-box. Instead of promoting solutions, they spread anarchy.

Ravenhawk, that's a creative theory of knowledge that you posit. It sounds like it's workable--for you--but is clearly not comprehensive enough to take fully into account that "troublemakers" often speak the unpopular truths which many of us (including me) tend to avoid or overlook.

That's one reason why we need so-called troublemakers.

[Space Commander Travis]

Me thinks you didn't catch what I said. So let me rephrase. Every group carries ugly baggage and the people of that group must confront that ugliness. There are different ways of making people aware of this ugliness. One way is to think outside of the box. As with many other things, there is a best way and a bad way of doing it. Some people thrive on doing it in a bad way. Those are the troublemakers because they then mesh that ugliness with all the evils in the world and project that onto the group itself. They take the ugliness out of context from the world and fail to gleam insight and motivation for its existence. Instead of thinking out-of-the-box, they accuse out-of-the-box. Instead of promoting solutions, they spread anarchy.

The solutions that neocons would recommend including, in fact perhaps principally, overthrowing those states, governments and regimes that don't fit your nice tidy worldview, where if only everyone did things the way America and israel wanted them to, the world would be a happy place?

[RavenHawk]

The solutions that neocons would recommend including, in fact perhaps principally, overthrowing those states, governments and regimes that don't fit your nice tidy worldview, where if only everyone did things the way America and israel wanted them to, the world would be a happy place?

Concerning those “states”, would you prefer a government that is friendly to you or not?

What’s this ‘do things the way America *AND* Israel wanted…’? Just try American Hegemony. Then yes, the world would be a happier place. Again, would you prefer Russian Hegemony, or Chinese, or even Islamic? Do you really think this world would be better under Islamic Hegemony?

[SolarPlexus]

Its the beginning of the end for American hegemony. Good.

[RavenHawk]

Ravenhawk, that's a creative theory of knowledge that you posit. It sounds like it's workable--for you--but is clearly not comprehensive enough to take fully into account that "troublemakers" often speak the unpopular truths which many of us (including me) tend to avoid or overlook.

That's one reason why we need so-called troublemakers.

We need the first half of the insight of the troublemakers, not their conclusions. That’s almost a whistleblower. If they would only limit themselves to speaking the unpopular truths that would be fine. I seek the unpopular truths but I don’t always see that as a reason to stop what we are doing, but to tweak what we are doing in order to complete the mission.

[Space Commander Travis]

Concerning those "states", would you prefer a government that is friendly to you or not?

What's this 'do things the way America *AND* Israel wanted…'? Just try American Hegemony. Then yes, the world would be a happier place. Again, would you prefer Russian Hegemony, or Chinese, or even Islamic? Do you really think this world would be better under Islamic Hegemony?

So America has the right, in pursuit of its "global Hegemony", to depose those governments that it doesn't think are friendly enough to it? That, I'm afraid, is the thinking of the Napoleons and Hitlers of this world.

[RavenHawk]

Its the beginning of the end for American hegemony. Good.

If that were true then WWIII is just around the corner.

[Space Commander Travis]

I think the neocons, or our representative of them among us, seem to want o both have their cake and eat it at the same time. They try to argue, as we see now, that America ruling the world has been a time of universal peace, and that the renaissance of powers that aren't intimidated by Uncle Sam means that WWIII is just around the corner, but then they constantly try to insist how what a clear and present danger the menace of Islam is, and how it wants to destroy all that we hold dear. so has America ruling the world meant universal peace or not? You can't have it both ways.

[Yamato]

Zionist dictionary ? Genocide ??

You have no idea what Black September WAS, do you ?

Presumably you are aware that the IDF where upholding official Palestinian Policy in doing this ?

Let me say that again.

The official government of the Palestinian People WANTED the blockade of Gaza to continue, and for the protest ships to be stopped.

This is not some sort of wacky conspiracy theory. This is official stated policy. (along - I might add - with that the of Egyptians).

So people should just forget half of them are children and side with you and Hamas then? Insane. Stop defending official policy and start defending human rights. It's not that difficult.

[SolarPlexus]

If that were true then WWIII is just around the corner.

Nah no WW, just the end of US hegemony. Isnt it great?

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

http://www.reuters.c...N0M22BF20140305

When the next Gaza conflict arises maybe Israel should aim at where the missiles originated?

Uh huh.

And maybe when the next Gaza conflict arises, the Palestinians should aim at where Isaeli missiles,

helicopters, jets, tanks, bombs, and NUKE missiles originated.

deal?

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

So people should just forget half of them are children and side with you and Hamas then? Insane. Stop defending official policy and start defending human rights. It's not that difficult.

Thank you.

and isn't it a shame that the West - America in particular, won't stand up for *HUMAN* rights. Not here they won't..

Because, the last I checked, Palestinian men, women and children were human.

[+and-then]

Uh huh.

And maybe when the next Gaza conflict arises, the Palestinians should aim at where Isaeli missiles,

helicopters, jets, tanks, bombs, and NUKE missiles originated.

deal?

Their kindred spirits took care of that on 9-11 and the Palestinians danced for joy over the aftermath. Danced. Exchanges sweets. CELEBRATED. And apparently you are one of those who thinks they are justified in doing so. As for Israel's nukes I rather think it's been established that it was France that made that possible. Those nukes make it possible for the Jewish people to drag the rest of the hateful world down into the abyss they are pushed into this time around. Fair is fair, no?

[Yamato]

and isn't it a shame that the West - America in particular, won't stand up for *HUMAN* rights.

I think you're right on balance, but we've still got folks among us who do stand up, like you and I.

When I was new here a few posters had it figured out that I was Muslim. I have Welsh/Irish and Polish/Ukrainian blood and was raised Catholic but because Islam was incidental I became a Hamas fanboy as a result. But defending human rights needs nothing to do with religion or any other group. The Human Race is the group we should think about where our rights are concerned.

I bet at least a few people who passively read these threads probably think I sound extreme on this issue. If they're Americans, I think they look like guilty consciences skulking in the shadows. They should speak out on the issue of rights and show us how they sound.

Ignoring Palestine is such a failure of principle; it's holding different rights for different groups. Even worse it's doing it for petty political and even racist/bigoted reasons. Americans who want to make all this noise to not-defend human rights, as if political/religious mumblings are the greater concern....they should go read their Declaration of Independence as a prerequisite to discussion.

[RoofGardener]

On the topic of human rights, I'd also suggest the preamble to the Constition of the USA as worth reading.

The problem with analysing the Middle East in terms of human rights is that you rapidly find a conflict between the "human rights" of the Palesltinians, and those of the Israeli's. The Palestinians need to learn that they do not hve a "right" to kill Israeli citizens. Nor does the world owe them a living - or a Nation.

Edited April 10, 2014 by RoofGardener

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

Their kindred spirits took care of that on 9-11 and the Palestinians danced for joy over the aftermath. Danced. Exchanges sweets. CELEBRATED.

They sure did, ".. . danced and passed out candy in the streets", yup. And the US tried to DENY it.

I remember it very well. And the French celebrated wildly too, when US troops attacked German

occupiers in WWII, as they would be expected. I give you no argument here.

And apparently you are one of those who thinks they are justified in doing so.

Again, I have no argument with you here. *ALL* humans have a right to self defense,

including ones that you do not like. Sorry, dude. It's about all *humans* having the SAME rights. And I denounce my own government for supporting Israel as much as I would denounce any government that would have armed and aided Iraq when they incurred into Kuwait.

As for Israel's nukes I rather think it's been established that it was France that made that possible. Those nukes make it possible for the Jewish people to drag the rest of the hateful world down into the abyss they are pushed into this time around. Fair is fair, no?

Depends on what you call "fair".

If you think killing millions to defend your illegal, murderous actions, than what can I say?

Murdering bank robbers are known to do that when being cornered by police, ya know? It's time to get desperate

So, fire away!

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

I think you're right on balance, but we've still got folks among us who do stand up, like you and I.

When I was new here a few posters had it figured out that I was Muslim. I have Welsh/Irish and Polish/Ukrainian blood and was raised Catholic but because Islam was incidental I became a Hamas fanboy as a result. But defending human rights needs nothing to do with religion or any other group. The Human Race is the group we should think about where our rights are concerned.

I bet at least a few people who passively read these threads probably think I sound extreme on this issue. If they're Americans, I think they look like guilty consciences skulking in the shadows. They should speak out on the issue of rights and show us how they sound.

Ignoring Palestine is such a failure of principle; it's holding different rights for different groups. Even worse it's doing it for petty political and even racist/bigoted reasons. Americans who want to make all this noise to not-defend human rights, as if political/religious mumblings are the greater concern....they should go read their Declaration of Independence as a prerequisite to discussion.

Nice.

And years ago here, and in other BB's, whenever I tired to explain my stance on human rights, judt as I am doing now,

many a time, all I would get back from people was - "Adolph!!!!!"

Having seen that much in the last couple of years. "These times they are a'changing"

Yamato, I have been here for some 2-3 years now.

I have had the same nic, and the same icon the whole time.

Sometimes people think my stance is "jew hating", but it is not.

You see that man in your upper left, the man I *proudly* use as my icon....?

Ya, that would be, oh, yes... an Ashkenazi Jew! OhmyGofOhmyGodOhmyGod!!!

And he was a major influence in my life on several levels. He was great. Loved him.

You be good. Nice talking to you, Yamoto.

[spacecowboy342]

On the topic of human rights, I'd also suggest the preamble to the Constition of the USA as worth reading.

The problem with analysing the Middle East in terms of human rights is that you rapidly find a conflict between the "human rights" of the Palesltinians, and those of the Israeli's. The Palestinians need to learn that they do not hve a "right" to kill Israeli citizens. Nor does the world owe them a living - or a Nation.

Why does the world owe Israel a nation?

[spacecowboy342]

No, I did not. Try reading it again. And this time pull your head out of your ar$e!

I read it again, My apologies. Your comment, it turns out wasn't completely nonsensical, merely irrelevant. As for the head in the **** comment that is hilarious coming from you

[spacecowboy342]

Nah no WW, just the end of US hegemony. Isnt it great?

To be replaced by what? Chinese hegemony?

[Yamato]

Nice.

And years ago here, and in other BB's, whenever I tired to explain my stance on human rights, judt as I am doing now,

many a time, all I would get back from people was - "Adolph!!!!!"

Having seen that much in the last couple of years. "These times they are a'changing"

Yamato, I have been here for some 2-3 years now.

I have had the same nic, and the same icon the whole time.

Sometimes people think my stance is "jew hating", but it is not.

You see that man in your upper left, the man I *proudly* use as my icon....?

Ya, that would be, oh, yes... an Ashkenazi Jew! OhmyGofOhmyGodOhmyGod!!!

And he was a major influence in my life on several levels. He was great. Loved him.

You be good. Nice talking to you, Yamoto.

Yeah I'm a kindred spirit if that's what you've been through. We have a weird way of hating the people we're supposed to hate.

People have unfortunately gotten Israel and Jews so entangled up together they've convinced millions of other people that there is no difference. They're throwing thousands of years of identity out the window for state oppression in govt policies today.

We are all historical people with interesting ancient beliefs and claims, however those are not the reasons we treat or do not treat humans like human beings.