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Iran Hasn't attacked anyone in 200 years

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Space Commander Travis

To be replaced by what? Chinese hegemony?

The end of hegemony doesn't mean the end of the USA. It just means the rise of other power blocs to counterbalance the overwhelming dominance of the one.

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Space Commander Travis

On the topic of human rights, I'd also suggest the preamble to the Constition of the USA as worth reading.

The problem with analysing the Middle East in terms of human rights is that you rapidly find a conflict between the "human rights" of the Palesltinians, and those of the Israeli's. The Palestinians need to learn that they do not hve a "right" to kill Israeli citizens. Nor does the world owe them a living - or a Nation.

Could not exactly the same be said for Israel?

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RoofGardener

Could not exactly the same be said for Israel?

Most certainly !

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and then

Could not exactly the same be said for Israel?

As much as it can be said for any country. Israel is not extraordinary in this sense. With the exception of US defense contractor welfare that benefits Israel, no other nation does anything to help them. And the aforementioned did not begin until the 70's. Israel made it on it's own under extreme duress for the first couple of decades. The comparison is specious at best. There are 57 Islamic states in the world. Yet the idea of ONE state for Jews on a piece of land the size of New Jersey causes the world to be in an uproar. It's almost comical to watch the contortions people and governments put themselves through.
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RoofGardener

Well said And Then.

Oh .. and at a slight tangent... lets look at this "US Military Support to Israel" thingy.

The bulk of the money that the US "gives" for Israeli military assistance is - in practice - ringfenced for spending on AMERICAN weapons systems. So the USA is NOT supporting Israel, it is supporting Boeing McDonald Douglass, Raytheon, General Dynamics etc.

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Yamato

Well said And Then.

Oh .. and at a slight tangent... lets look at this "US Military Support to Israel" thingy.

The bulk of the money that the US "gives" for Israeli military assistance is - in practice - ringfenced for spending on AMERICAN weapons systems. So the USA is NOT supporting Israel, it is supporting Boeing McDonald Douglass, Raytheon, General Dynamics etc.

A tangent of false choice. It isn't a choice between two things. It's supporting both. Defense contractors love Zionists because there's always another need for more weapons after all their bureaucratic **** talk and state terrorism from Israel is justified in the spending.

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RoofGardener

A tangent of false choice. It isn't a choice between two things. It's supporting both. Defense contractors love Zionists because there's always another need for more weapons after all their bureaucratic **** talk and state terrorism from Israel is justified in the spending.

Remarkable.

The individual words appear to be recognisable English. But - put together - they make no sense whatsoever.

I was particularly intrigued by "a tangent of false choice". Sounds like a title of a Bond movie ?

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and then

Remarkable.

The individual words appear to be recognisable English. But - put together - they make no sense whatsoever.

I was particularly intrigued by "a tangent of false choice". Sounds like a title of a Bond movie ?

Every post is similar to a Rorschach blot :w00t:

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Earl.Of.Trumps

Well said And Then.

Oh .. and at a slight tangent... lets look at this "US Military Support to Israel" thingy.

The bulk of the money that the US "gives" for Israeli military assistance is - in practice - ringfenced for spending on AMERICAN weapons systems. So the USA is NOT supporting Israel, it is supporting Boeing McDonald Douglass, Raytheon, General Dynamics etc.

Will you, Puh-LEASE, RoofGardener.

Let's look at it this way,,, Israel gets all those weapons, crafts, everything FREE.

And you try to turn the tables and say Boeing is the real beneficiary? sad. :no:

Either way, people like me are the real losers because we taxpayers foot the bill

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Space Commander Travis

There are 57 Islamic states in the world. Yet the idea of ONE state for Jews on a piece of land the size of New Jersey causes the world to be in an uproar.

We're not still applying the whip to this poor deceased pony, are we? :( Poor thing.

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Space Commander Travis

Well said And Then.

Oh .. and at a slight tangent... lets look at this "US Military Support to Israel" thingy.

The bulk of the money that the US "gives" for Israeli military assistance is - in practice - ringfenced for spending on AMERICAN weapons systems. So the USA is NOT supporting Israel, it is supporting Boeing McDonald Douglass, Raytheon, General Dynamics etc.

out of the sheer generosity of the US Govt's heart? And without expecting anything in return, like Roosevelt's Lend-Lease Act, because the future of civilisation it at stake?

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Frank Merton

For some time I had the (personal opinion) that Arabs need strong autocratic government; that they cannot govern themselves. Then I found myself needing to add Iran and Pakistan to that list, now Bangladesh and Turkey and several of the former USSR republics. About the only country in that region that can sustain a functional democracy (just barely) is Israel.

Now don't misunderstand: democracies tend to be messy and inefficient, but at least they are humane. The autocracies of much of Asia, with some exceptions, demonstrates that humane successful autocracies can work well, compared to say Europe or the Americas. I think the difference between East Asian Communist autocracies and Middle Eastern stagnant, inhumane autocracies, is largely religious. (And don't anyone mention N. Korea -- it's an embarrassment to humanity).

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Space Commander Travis

Perhaps Pol Pot was something of an exception to that rule of thumb, but perhaps it's worth bearing in mind that Iraq was actually, even under old Saddam's rule, reasonably successful and prosperous before he brought the wrath of the US- i mean UN down on his head, and while, Iran, certainly under the Aye O'Tolly, was very much a totalitarian theocracy, it too has been so persecuted by the might of the West, just for not doing what the West wants it to, that it's frankly a wonder that it has been able to function as successfully as it has in the last decade or so.

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Frank Merton

Pol Pot is I think in the order of an exception that proves the rule, and he was removed from power by Vietnam. Your understanding of the economic history of Iraq has to be a joke.

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Space Commander Travis

Pol Pot is I think in the order of an exception that proves the rule, and he was removed from power by Vietnam. Your understanding of the economic history of Iraq has to be a joke.

Actually no, certainly under Saddam's predecessor Al-Bakr it was one of the most progressive and most successful economies (you could indeed argue that Saddam brought it down through his war with iran) and it was also (in fact, right up until Saddam was overthrown by the Forces of Light) one of the most secular countries in the M. East; certainly O bin L was no friend of his.

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Frank Merton

Iraq's economy was a mess and going downhill; just look at the oil production numbers. I am not an expert in this so don't intend to engage it, but it is hard for me to let such nonsense go unchallenged.

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and then

We're not still applying the whip to this poor deceased pony, are we? :( Poor thing.

Everything I said is accurate and your pained attempts of humor are tiring.

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and then

out of the sheer generosity of the US Govt's heart? And without expecting anything in return, like Roosevelt's Lend-Lease Act, because the future of civilisation it at stake?

No, out of whorish politicians who buy favor and votes (and jobs) in districts where those evil defense contractors build these shiny toys. By law 74% of every dollar in US aid to Israel MUST be spent on US goods over the period of the agreement (10 years). The US gets this AND the whip to beat Israeli governments who have the audacity to want to do something that uncle Sam disagrees with.

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Yamato

A midget who gets a giant to promise to defend him is genius and the giant a fool, whatever the lines and letters are that may follow from such a foolish contract.

Even people who can talk a good game about self-defense from a political standpoint domestically lose their groove when they have to apply their alleged principle overseas.

"The US will protect you now"; so violate human rights and civil liberties all you want. And please tell the anti-American Izbots not to worry. The blind ignorance, hypocrisy and stupidity is "unbreakable".

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Space Commander Travis

Everything I said is accurate.

You mean insinuations of anti-Semitism you mean?

Edited by Colonel Rhubarb

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Earl.Of.Trumps

No, out of whorish politicians who buy favor and votes (and jobs) in districts where those evil defense contractors build these shiny toys. By law 74% of every dollar in US aid to Israel MUST be spent on US goods over the period of the agreement (10 years). The US gets this AND the whip to beat Israeli governments who have the audacity to want to do something that uncle Sam disagrees with.

I don't know where you live or how you get your news, or see life in general.

But I will tell you this... The US, acting as Israel's bidder, votes almost identically to Israel in the UN.

I will also tell you, Israel lobby groups almost *always* gets their way in Washington - until recently.

They don't call us The United States of Israel for nothing.

Obama is the first sitting US president since John F. Kennedy that has not obeyed Israel like a little dog. That's my opinion.

Edited by Earl.Of.Trumps
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and then

I don't know where you live or how you get your news, or see life in general.

But I will tell you this... The US, acting as Israel's bidder, votes almost identically to Israel in the UN.

I will also tell you, Israel lobby groups almost *always* gets their way in Washington - until recently.

They don't call us The United States of Israel for nothing.

Obama is the first sitting US president since John F. Kennedy that has not obeyed Israel like a little dog. That's my opinion.

Jews control the world huh? Where have I heard this before... And if Oby seems like some sort of ideal or champion to you then all I can do is sigh and walk away.

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spacecowboy342

Jews control the world huh? Where have I heard this before... And if Oby seems like some sort of ideal or champion to you then all I can do is sigh and walk away.

Maybe not the world but conservative candidates are currently kow-towing to a Jewish billionaire. You really have no problem with Palestinians being herded into reservations in their own country?

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and then

Maybe not the world but conservative candidates are currently kow-towing to a Jewish billionaire. You really have no problem with Palestinians being herded into reservations in their own country?

When the initial partition was offered in 1948 the Jews of Israel gladly accepted FAR less land than they now control. The Palestinians said no, never, no Jewish state in Palestine. Then they began the first of several attempts to crush them and push them into the sea. That is not rhetoric it is fact. To this day the Palestinians STILL refuse to countenance the idea of a Jewish state in Palestine. They teach their children maps that show no Israeli presence in the land at all. They nurture hate in their youngest. This seems to be acceptable to those who support the Palestinians I assume you find no problem with it either. Just remember, it was the Brits and the UN who gave life to the state of Israel. It was the Arab states that surround it that caused it to grow. You do not repeatedly attack a country, lose, and expect to just keep getting a "do over". That is not the way it has EVER been. Yet people blythely expect it from Israel...I wonder why?

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spacecowboy342

When the initial partition was offered in 1948 the Jews of Israel gladly accepted FAR less land than they now control. The Palestinians said no, never, no Jewish state in Palestine. Then they began the first of several attempts to crush them and push them into the sea. That is not rhetoric it is fact. To this day the Palestinians STILL refuse to countenance the idea of a Jewish state in Palestine. They teach their children maps that show no Israeli presence in the land at all. They nurture hate in their youngest. This seems to be acceptable to those who support the Palestinians I assume you find no problem with it either. Just remember, it was the Brits and the UN who gave life to the state of Israel. It was the Arab states that surround it that caused it to grow. You do not repeatedly attack a country, lose, and expect to just keep getting a "do over". That is not the way it has EVER been. Yet people blythely expect it from Israel...I wonder why?

Perhaps they refuse because it was their land. How do you suppose the people of North Carolina would react if their property were taken away for a Cherokee homeland?

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