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Iran Hasn't attacked anyone in 200 years

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Br Cornelius

AND THEN you misunderstand - I hate no christians for their belief in God - I hate their actions in supporting inhuman regimes because of their belief in God.

There is a huge difference between the to - it is only the deeds of christians I hate when they are justify morally unsupportable behaviour.

Br Cornelius

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and then

AND THEN you misunderstand - I hate no christians for their belief in God - I hate their actions in supporting inhuman regimes because of their belief in God.

There is a huge difference between the to - it is only the deeds of christians I hate when they are justify morally unsupportable behaviour.

Br Cornelius

We can agree on that, then. Though I'm sure that means that any Christian who supports Israel makes your list. Fair enough - we all have our conscience to feed. But it would be nice if, while condemning the evil done by one party to that conflict, one would take a look at the other side as well and not justify all their actions without examination. It always takes TWO to have a disagreement.

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RoofGardener

AND THEN you misunderstand - I hate no christians for their belief in God - I hate their actions in supporting inhuman regimes because of their belief in God.

There is a huge difference between the to - it is only the deeds of christians I hate when they are justify morally unsupportable behaviour.

Br Cornelius

Sooooo..... i terms of supporting inhuman regimes... do you ONLY factor in Christians ?

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Earl.Of.Trumps

I am just stating historical facts. I find that many christians still fit the mould. I would consider Jesus a great man if he was around today - but I doubt he would have anything to do with any of the churches which have adopted the historic Jesus as a mascot.

Br Cornelius

Nor would Jesus appreciate the fact that Westerners have created Jesus in *their* own image, by giving

him white skin, when anyone in the ME knows that Sephardic Jews have black skin.

Would it do any good at all for Jesus to point to his Father's ten commandments - just as a reminder?

Nahhhhh.... doubt it.

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Earl.Of.Trumps

You took my quote out of context - possibly because it wasn't clear. I was stating that the secular gospel of man is that all people are the same no matter what they do, how they live or what choices they make.

That part we agree, but your rabid support for people who are wrongful, and your disdain and non-support

of the victims tells me you are in a ball of contradiction. How can you feel this way when you should

only judge people as *people*, not Jews, not Muslims, just people.

God states clearly that the path to him is narrow. I'm not going to waste a lot of time with you Earl over my beliefs it's pointless. I DO side with the Jews - no shame there.

I have no problem with you, me, or anyone "siding with Jews", depending on *which* Jews.

I "stick up" for white people, but I"ll be damned if I'll walk arm-in-arm with the White Supremists.

Certainly *people* - whether they are Jews or not, who break God's laws, should not be supported,

as now you can be held accountable by God for aiding and abetting.

Laws are laws, commandments are commandments.

I also make very clear that I don't agree with much that they do in the way they treat the Muslims in their midst - but they aren't Christian are they? As for your last statement - I realize you are mocking me and it's okay because if what I believe is true then your plea is going to shortly be granted. And Earl? We have to account for every idle word.

I admit, I was mocking you, I apologize.

You do have the knowledge base, for sure. But you don't follow those words, IMO.

In the end, the Big Guy gets to Judge you, not me or anyone else.

Maybe in your case, he will see that you are confused a bit.

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Br Cornelius

Sooooo..... i terms of supporting inhuman regimes... do you ONLY factor in Christians ?

Obviously not. It is generally been my position that organised religion has been a rather pernicious influence on the world, though some flavours are rather worse than others when the evidence is looked at. I personally think the world would be a better place without any religion beyond the personal.

Br Cornelius

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Space Commander Travis

So you're not absolutely ruling out the idea of the presence of some kind of what we call God in some way, just that your argument is against organised religion?

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Yamato

Obviously not. It is generally been my position that organised religion has been a rather pernicious influence on the world, though some flavours are rather worse than others when the evidence is looked at. I personally think the world would be a better place without any religion beyond the personal.

Br Cornelius

Would you be willing to use government force to snutf organized religion out?

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RoofGardener

"Organised Religion"

Hmmm.... curiously enough, Christianity (in its various forms) is the only with a sacerdotal structured heirarchy and an oligarchical leadership. In Judaism, Islam, Hinduism and Buddism the temple is the basic "unit" of structure, with each temple being self-managed, selecting its own "priest" (partially by public acclaim), and acting (in theory) independently of all other temples or religious authorities. A form of anarchism, no less ?

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Br Cornelius

So you're not absolutely ruling out the idea of the presence of some kind of what we call God in some way, just that your argument is against organised religion?

I tend not to believe at this stage, and the only form I could countenance would be a Pantheistic form of God. Certainly there seems no place for a personal God in the logical universe I occupy.

Br Cornelius

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Br Cornelius

Would you be willing to use government force to snutf organized religion out?

No. I believe that if we don't catapult ourselves back into the Middle Ages, religion will naturally decline under the compelling advantages of secularism. I think the lip service paid to religion in most developed nations represents definite progress.

Br Cornelius

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and then

No. I believe that if we don't catapult ourselves back into the Middle Ages, religion will naturally decline under the compelling advantages of secularism. I think the lip service paid to religion in most developed nations represents definite progress.

Br Cornelius

But isn't that a very large if? The fact that humanity cannot seem to find a way to be in harmony while advancing so rapidly technologically almost guarantees a return to that time - or even earlier.

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Br Cornelius

But isn't that a very large if? The fact that humanity cannot seem to find a way to be in harmony while advancing so rapidly technologically almost guarantees a return to that time - or even earlier.

As I have demonstrated repeatedly to you before - war,crime and murder are at a historical low and still declining. Your premise is flawed.

Br Cornelius

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and then

As I have demonstrated repeatedly to you before - war,crime and murder are at a historical low and still declining. Your premise is flawed.

Br Cornelius

We disagree on that. I was merely noticing your disclaimer - you apparently have at least some doubts about man's ability to not destroy himself.

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Yamato

you apparently have at least some doubts about man's ability to not destroy himself.

Yes he does, yet there's a great field between him and you.

If I had to describe Br as simply as possible, I would say he champions unified diversity through social democracy. I admit there are merits to support that and questions to challenge it, but it's refreshing to see that sometimes principle such as human rights run much deeper than the politics and nationalism surrounding it.

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Br Cornelius

We disagree on that. I was merely noticing your disclaimer - you apparently have at least some doubts about man's ability to not destroy himself.

i showed you evidence to support my assertion - you expressed a belief. There is a wild difference between my evidence and your belief.

Let me make this clear, there is less chance of an individual meeting a untimely end through murder or war than at any time in history. That is an indisputable fact. the only reason why someone might think otherwise is because we are constantly exposed to news regarding the dwindling casualties like no other time in history. We think there is more violent death because we hear more about it - but as an individual we are far less likely to be killed violently.

As in many other things I do not care what your belief is because you are demonstrably wrong.

Br Cornelius

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and then

i showed you evidence to support my assertion - you expressed a belief. There is a wild difference between my evidence and your belief.

Let me make this clear, there is less chance of an individual meeting a untimely end through murder or war than at any time in history. That is an indisputable fact. the only reason why someone might think otherwise is because we are constantly exposed to news regarding the dwindling casualties like no other time in history. We think there is more violent death because we hear more about it - but as an individual we are far less likely to be killed violently.

As in many other things I do not care what your belief is because you are demonstrably wrong.

Br Cornelius

I acknowledge that - I'll try AGAIN - why did you put in the disclaimer? Post 486 - No. I believe that if we don't catapult ourselves back into the Middle Ages,

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Space Commander Travis

i showed you evidence to support my assertion - you expressed a belief. There is a wild difference between my evidence and your belief.

Let me make this clear, there is less chance of an individual meeting a untimely end through murder or war than at any time in history. That is an indisputable fact. the only reason why someone might think otherwise is because we are constantly exposed to news regarding the dwindling casualties like no other time in history. We think there is more violent death because we hear more about it - but as an individual we are far less likely to be killed violently.

As in many other things I do not care what your belief is because you are demonstrably wrong.

Br Cornelius

I think that is a fair argument. We only know that 'there are so many horrible things going on in the world' because we're treated to 24/7 rolling coverage whenever anything does.

And perhaps it seems so much more than it ever was before because the global population is so much bigger than it ever was before, so horrible things happen more often, but proportionally to the size of the population it's in fact no more frequent than it's ever been. I mean, we only have to open the Old testament more or less anywhere at random and it's a fair chance there'll be an account of some battle or other in which every man, woman & child on the other side is quite cheerfully Smited with no remorse at all. And remember how in ancient times, execution of prisoners - whole cities being wiped out, man, woman and Child - or prisoners being held in slavery, was quite normal, and the rest of the world, even if they did know about it, wouldn't be horrified about it because they knew that that was just how it was.

Edited by Colonel Rhubarb
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Br Cornelius

I acknowledge that - I'll try AGAIN - why did you put in the disclaimer? Post 486 - No. I believe that if we don't catapult ourselves back into the Middle Ages,

if we fail to address the various ecological and resource crisis our regression is somewhat inevitable.

Br Cornelius

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spacecowboy342

We disagree on that. I was merely noticing your disclaimer - you apparently have at least some doubts about man's ability to not destroy himself.

I too have doubts about man's ability not to destroy himself, mainly due to apocalyptic religions indoctrinating their children with the idea that Armageddon is inevitable as it was foretold by God. Logic and reason is our only hope to combat ignorance and superstion

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Frank Merton

I too have doubts about man's ability not to destroy himself, mainly due to apocalyptic religions indoctrinating their children with the idea that Armageddon is inevitable as it was foretold by God. Logic and reason is our only hope to combat ignorance and superstion

I think human self-destruction's chances at less than one percent. Some radicals might get a hold of a few nuclear bombs and destroy a few cities with it, and that would produce a reaction making travel and moving things about much more difficult, and a lot more government spying on radical groups, but maybe we should be doing those things now to prevent it.

A natural event, like a pandemic, would be more likely and still very unlikely. A comet could always come our way. Yellowstone doesn't much worry me; if there were a serious potential there the government would be spending more money there.

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and then

I too have doubts about man's ability not to destroy himself, mainly due to apocalyptic religions indoctrinating their children with the idea that Armageddon is inevitable as it was foretold by God. Logic and reason is our only hope to combat ignorance and superstion

So man's greed, and lust for power have nothing to do with the problem huh? And most people of science will tell you we live in an age of ever expanding logic, reason and explosive advance of knowledge. So where is the change in man's nature? Brutha's grand statistics notwithstanding, we are still beset with the same murder and mayhem we always have been - we just do it more efficiently. Lay it off at someone else's door if you like, the results won't change and you and your's won't escape it.

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Br Cornelius

So man's greed, and lust for power have nothing to do with the problem huh? And most people of science will tell you we live in an age of ever expanding logic, reason and explosive advance of knowledge. So where is the change in man's nature? Brutha's grand statistics notwithstanding, we are still beset with the same murder and mayhem we always have been - we just do it more efficiently. Lay it off at someone else's door if you like, the results won't change and you and your's won't escape it.

You miss the point (are you been deliberately obtuse), no-one has denied that murder etc are still with us - but they are on a downward path - which has to be seen as a good thing. Human nature is becoming softer with time - which again has to be seen as a good thing. War is a waste of energy and resources and the less of it there is the more energy and resources are available for real progress.

Your pre-existing beliefs that we are on a decline to Armageddeon and that you only get your goodies when it happens, is blinding you to the reality we are actually experiencing. This is the innate folly of believing in stories rather than evidence.

Br Cornelius

Br Cornelius

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spacecowboy342

So man's greed, and lust for power have nothing to do with the problem huh? And most people of science will tell you we live in an age of ever expanding logic, reason and explosive advance of knowledge. So where is the change in man's nature? Brutha's grand statistics notwithstanding, we are still beset with the same murder and mayhem we always have been - we just do it more efficiently. Lay it off at someone else's door if you like, the results won't change and you and your's won't escape it.

I never said that but I think rational thinking is the best way to combat this not ancient superstition

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spacecowboy342

I think human self-destruction's chances at less than one percent. Some radicals might get a hold of a few nuclear bombs and destroy a few cities with it, and that would produce a reaction making travel and moving things about much more difficult, and a lot more government spying on radical groups, but maybe we should be doing those things now to prevent it.

A natural event, like a pandemic, would be more likely and still very unlikely. A comet could always come our way. Yellowstone doesn't much worry me; if there were a serious potential there the government would be spending more money there.

I wish I had your optimism. Yellowstone is about 60 k years overdue and throwing money at it won't help. As long as fundamentalists among muslims and Christians hold power the potential for mutual destruction is there

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