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Iran Hasn't attacked anyone in 200 years

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spacecowboy342

Seriously - I realize that there has been some evolution - the amendments testify to that but what I understood from your post was that you were questioning the wisdom of our founders versus our modern version of leadership. And I actually respect your statement about Christians - to be treated in that way is all any religious person can expect.

The main wisdom of the founders was to leave us a constitution that could evolve with the times
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Yamato

a constitution that could evolve with the times

So evolve. It is neither sacrosanct and rigid, nor easy and fluid. Got a problem with the Constitution? Amend it. If you can't reach that kind of critical mass, you're going to have to live with the Constitution you've got.

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and then

So evolve. It is neither sacrosanct and rigid, nor easy and fluid. Got a problem with the Constitution? Amend it. If you can't reach that kind of critical mass, you're going to have to live with the Constitution you've got.

Or you could just do what our current president does and simply ignore it.

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spacecowboy342

Or you could just do what our current president does and simply ignore it.

When is he ignoring it? When he is being the dictator/king or when he is the do-nothing weakling? Edited by spacecowboy342
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SolarPlexus

All they have proven is that they are willing to submit themselves to a barbaric ideology and kill those who refuse to do so. I suspect that this civilization you refer to was FAR more noble than what currently passes for a government there.

The only barbarism is the USA/NATO endless war machine. You have problem with their culture, shariah law or their beliefs? Then **** off. No one asked for your presence. When you invade a sovereign country, especially one that has 10.000 years of history behind it, prepare to lose a very long underground war. Syria, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan - they all prove that no empire can win such wars, and only the innocent suffer. Russia tried their luck in Afghanistan during the 80s, lured by vast mineral deposits there, but they soon found out it wont do them any good. USA/NATO is foolish enough to stay there for 10 years, losing money and soldiers every day. Fighting indigenous peoples around the planet, under the guise of "defending human rights and democracy"...

Edited by SolarPlexus
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and then

The only barbarism is the USA/NATO endless war machine. You have problem with their culture, shariah law or their beliefs? Then **** off. No one asked for your presence. When you invade a sovereign country, especially one that has 10.000 years of history behind it, prepare to lose a very long underground war. Syria, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan - they all prove that no empire can win such wars, and only the innocent suffer. Russia tried their luck in Afghanistan during the 80s, lured by vast mineral deposits there, but they soon found out it wont do them any good. USA/NATO is foolish enough to stay there for 10 years, losing money and soldiers every day. Fighting indigenous peoples around the planet, under the guise of "defending human rights and democracy"...

Maybe... but we weren't discussing anyone else here that I was aware of. You glorify what WAS - I'm simply pointing out what it has become - deny that and you'll appear foolish.
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lightly

seriously though... if not for protecting or projecting economic interests of some sort or other .. why should we have even one base in the entire middle east? *(and a lot of other places.. geopolitical $trategies by aunt fanny)) The U.S. has a big enough stick to deal with aggressors.. otherwise.. who gives a rat's? I don't.

Edited by lightly
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odas

All they have proven is that they are willing to submit themselves to a barbaric ideology and kill those who refuse to do so. I suspect that this civilization you refer to was FAR more noble than what currently passes for a government there.

I nornaly disagree with solar and i know his agenda but in this instance he is right. Comparing the amount of people killed by syria and iran to the people killed by the westernpowers then the "barbaric" syrians and iranians are lambs of God.

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RoofGardener

The only barbarism is the USA/NATO endless war machine. You have problem with their culture, shariah law or their beliefs? Then **** off. No one asked for your presence. When you invade a sovereign country, especially one that has 10.000 years of history behind it, prepare to lose a very long underground war. Syria, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan - they all prove that no empire can win such wars, and only the innocent suffer. Russia tried their luck in Afghanistan during the 80s, lured by vast mineral deposits there, but they soon found out it wont do them any good. USA/NATO is foolish enough to stay there for 10 years, losing money and soldiers every day. Fighting indigenous peoples around the planet, under the guise of "defending human rights and democracy"...

Just out of curiosity, Solarplexus, would you see ANY grounds for invading a sovereign state in order to save lives ?

How about - for example - the NATO intervention in Bosnia ?

Or Korea ?

Or the intervention to liberate Kuwait ?

Or the NATO-assisted African Union interventions in Mali, Sudan and Somalia ?

Is it always morally appropriate to stand back and let mass deaths - or even genocides - "play themselves out" ?

Edited by RoofGardener
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SolarPlexus

Can you see past the mask of human rights, democracy and humanitarianism? This scenario played out many times and its all the same ****, its warmongering and military intervention. Do I think USA/NATO are humanitarian and have good or genuine intentions ? No.

Edited by SolarPlexus

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and then

Can you see past the mask of human rights, democracy and humanitarianism? This scenario played out many times and its all the same ****, its warmongering and military intervention. Do I think USA/NATO are humanitarian and have good or genuine intentions ? No.

What benefits, exactly, did the US reap when they entered Bosnia on behalf of Muslims who were being killed? Nations do not have friends, they have interests, but the US has done more to help in disasters than ALL the Islamic countries combined. You cannot deny it. The Islamic countries are on average the wealthiest on the planet yet they do almost NOTHING to help those poor even within their own borders - let alone for their "brothers" elsewhere.
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SolarPlexus

Hahahahahah

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SolarPlexus

I nornaly disagree with solar and i know his agenda

my agenda? ahahahah I am the evil agenda spreader and chetnik fascist nazist Seseljist am I rite? odas please take your pills bro

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Yamato

So not attacking anyone in 200 years means nothing, but Iran engaging in the exact same crap we do like arming terrorist thugs isn't to be tolerated because Hypocrisy is God.

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and then

So not attacking anyone in 200 years means nothing, but Iran engaging in the exact same crap we do like arming terrorist thugs isn't to be tolerated because Hypocrisy is God.

No..... the hypocrisy is the lie being told that Iran hasn't attacked anyone in 200 years. The title was meant as ironical sarcasm...

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odas

my agenda? ahahahah I am the evil agenda spreader and chetnik fascist nazist Seseljist am I rite?

Yes

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odas

What benefits, exactly, did the US reap when they entered Bosnia on behalf of Muslims who were being killed? Nations do not have friends, they have interests, but the US has done more to help in disasters than ALL the Islamic countries combined. You cannot deny it. The Islamic countries are on average the wealthiest on the planet yet they do almost NOTHING to help those poor even within their own borders - let alone for their "brothers" elsewhere.

Agree with you 100 percent.

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Br Cornelius

No..... the hypocrisy is the lie being told that Iran hasn't attacked anyone in 200 years. The title was meant as ironical sarcasm...

Its one of those situations where if you want to take the moral high ground you had better be able to show evidence of having morals.

America has financed more covert terrorists than Iran has ever backed. The latest events in the Ukraine have the sticky hands of the CIA and State department all over it, with easy to find evidence that they backed the Fascist elements of the uprising.

Iran have backed there interests, just as the US has backed its interests, lets not indulge in hypocrisy here. people who cannot see past their own sides propaganda have no right to engage in discussions about right or wrong.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius
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jeem

Ummm... so what was the whole Iran/Iraq war of the 80's 90's about then?...

Actually Iraq started the war with a little support from the U.S

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jeem

I guess when they stormed our embassy (technically US territory) in 1979, that doesn't count?

Then don't forget to count the drone attack of Yemen,Pakistan.Destruction of Iraq and Afghanistan.

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Br Cornelius

Another thing - Iran is not run by mad Mullahs, at least no more so than the USA or Israel, and so would not commit national suicide by using Nuclear weapons. However it has a genuine concern that it could be invaded/attacked by the US/Israel at any moment. This is not an unreasonable belief since the US/Israel has openly threatened to do so for the last 15 years. It has a legitimate desire to protect itself against countries who would threaten to destroy or invade it - and this is the main reason why US/Israel will not allow it to acquire nuclear weapons since it doesn't want Iran to develop its own SAMPSON OPTION and therefore permanently remove the ability of the US/Israel to threaten it.

Br Cornelius

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Br Cornelius

What it all amounts to at this stage is that America will not tolerate anyone standing in the way of what it considers its interests - which is an entirely different thing to what is morally right to do.

Br Cornelius

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Space Commander Travis

I would observe that the subtitle of this thread,

Iran Hasn't attacked anyone in 200 years - But they sure make it easy for others to do for them, could surely apply just as much to the US, which has made for a long time, at least since the 1950s, its policy to do just the same, arming "resistance" groups and "Freedom fighters" to fight the good fight, just as long as it's in the right cause, of course, i.e. fighting the Red Menace (or now, the Islamic Menace). But it would probably be seen as just more evidence of my rabid hatred of America if I did.

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and then

I would observe that the subtitle of this thread,

Iran Hasn't attacked anyone in 200 years -But they sure make it easy for others to do for them, could surely apply just as much to the US, which has made for a long time, at least since the 1950s, its policy to do just the same, arming "resistance" groups and "Freedom fighters" to fight the good fight, just as long as it's in the right cause, of course, i.e. fighting the Red Menace (or now, the Islamic Menace). But it would probably be seen as just more evidence of my rabid hatred of America if I did.

Yes Col but THIS thread isn't about that, is it? You have to admit there are already INNUMERABLE instances where such things are inferred, hinted at and said outright already - carry on... Edited by and then

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Space Commander Travis

I was merely observing that what Iran is being accused of, many countries (including, in the interests of balance, Russia and the UK as well almost certainly), have done. It's part & parcel of political power games, isn't it.

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