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Iran Hasn't attacked anyone in 200 years

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spacecowboy342

What bothers me is that we put sanctions on Iran to get them to the bargaining table. These work and Iran has shown a willingness to negotiate and the conservative response? More sanctions.

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Space Commander Travis

What bothers me is that we put sanctions on Iran to get them to the bargaining table. These work and Iran has shown a willingness to negotiate and the conservative response? More sanctions.

I think they take the same kind of approach as they did to germany in WWII; they won't negotiate with the current regime, however much they may try to make overtures. i suppose that's what comes of seeing every regime that you don't like as the New Hitler, as seems to be the way it always is now.

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and then

I was merely observing that what Iran is being accused of, many countries (including, in the interests of balance, Russia and the UK as well almost certainly), have done. It's part & parcel of political power games, isn't it.

Indeed it is, so it makes one wonder why some are insistent on bring up the charge during discussions on Iran and their motivations and machinations that "they haven't attacked anyone in 200 years! The implication being that they are above the fray - that they are in fact peace loving sorts. This thread was to expose the hypocrisy of that at least a little.

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Br Cornelius

Indeed it is, so it makes one wonder why some are insistent on bring up the charge during discussions on Iran and their motivations and machinations that "they haven't attacked anyone in 200 years! The implication being that they are above the fray - that they are in fact peace loving sorts. This thread was to expose the hypocrisy of that at least a little.

It has exposed your ignorance or hypocrisy to even raise the subject. Yours was a veiled attack on Iran for doing what you would have done to them.

Br Cornelius

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RoofGardener

Another thing - Iran is not run by mad Mullahs, at least no more so than the USA or Israel, and so would not commit national suicide by using Nuclear weapons....

Br Cornelius

I wish I shared your confidence. Unlike the USA or Israel, Iran is a Theocracy. The Mullah's may not be mad, per se, but their decision-making process is heavily influenced - if not outright dominated - by a religious belief with a strong tradition of self-immolation and death fantasies. This makes them unpredictable by "Western" mores.

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spacecowboy342

I wish I shared your confidence. Unlike the USA or Israel, Iran is a Theocracy. The Mullah's may not be mad, per se, but their decision-making process is heavily influenced - if not outright dominated - by a religious belief with a strong tradition of self-immolation and death fantasies. This makes them unpredictable by "Western" mores.

I'd worry more about Pakistan

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and then

What bothers me is that we put sanctions on Iran to get them to the bargaining table. These work and Iran has shown a willingness to negotiate and the conservative response? More sanctions.

They came to the table. What did they give up for the 20 billion or so in new business? They temporarily diluted their 20% enriched Uranium. They did not remove or disable a SINGLE centrifuge. The diluted U can be re enriched within 3 weeks. They have done nothing that is not reversible and they have made zero concessions that would impede them from being a nuclear weapons state within a few weeks of making the decision to be so. They sense weakness in Israel, they KNOW the US will do nothing. Those who feel this is somehow a win for the "good guys" make me wonder about the sanity of this generation. On the plus side though, it will make saying goodbye to the western way of life easier. Feeble minded people are not strong enough to survive in the world - maybe Darwin would concur. Edited by and then

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Br Cornelius

I wish I shared your confidence. Unlike the USA or Israel, Iran is a Theocracy. The Mullah's may not be mad, per se, but their decision-making process is heavily influenced - if not outright dominated - by a religious belief with a strong tradition of self-immolation and death fantasies. This makes them unpredictable by "Western" mores.

Despite there been a strong religious element to their culture - it is no more threatening than the Messianic culture of the American Christian Fundamentalist or Israeli Zionists.

What is interesting is that America have actually threatened to use Nuclear weapons to attack other nations on multiple occasions over the last 50 years.

Br Cornelius

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Yamato

there are already INNUMERABLE instances where such things are inferred, hinted at and said outright already - carry on...

Inferring, hinting or saying outright that the US "makes it easy for other countries to attack others" doesn't go nearly far enough. Let's just admit the truth and say outright that the US attacks other countries. That's why the excuses you bring for opposing Iran are so hypocritical. "Attack"? You seek to micromanage different countries with two entirely different standards of behavior. I wonder why.

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Yamato

They came to the table. What did they give up for the 20 billion or so in new business? They temporarily diluted their 20% enriched Uranium. They did not remove or disable a SINGLE centrifuge. The diluted U can be re enriched within 3 weeks. They have done nothing that is not reversible and they have made zero concessions that would impede them from being a nuclear weapons state within a few weeks of making the decision to be so. They sense weakness in Israel, they KNOW the US will do nothing. Those who feel this is somehow a win for the "good guys" make me wonder about the sanity of this generation. On the plus side though, it will make saying goodbye to the western way of life easier. Feeble minded people are not strong enough to survive in the world - maybe Darwin would concur.

Oh so it "can be". So basically punish Iranians for the reversible nature of nuclear technology. How convenient!

And "within three weeks" (source, please) isn't long enough. How many weeks is?

To actually think that Iran is going to end "the western way of life" is preposterous and paranoid. Looks like more fear-aid for the real agenda, Israel.

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spacecowboy342

They came to the table. What did they give up for the 20 billion or so in new business? They temporarily diluted their 20% enriched Uranium. They did not remove or disable a SINGLE centrifuge. The diluted U can be re enriched within 3 weeks. They have done nothing that is not reversible and they have made zero concessions that would impede them from being a nuclear weapons state within a few weeks of making the decision to be so. They sense weakness in Israel, they KNOW the US will do nothing. Those who feel this is somehow a win for the "good guys" make me wonder about the sanity of this generation. On the plus side though, it will make saying goodbye to the western way of life easier. Feeble minded people are not strong enough to survive in the world - maybe Darwin would concur.

Right we have destroyed Iraq and Afghanistan but the Iranians know we'll do nothing. And what weakness in Israel? The point is they were negotiating. What reason do they have to negotiate now?
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Br Cornelius

There are no good guys here - but destroying Iran will not suddenly make anyone better - quite the opposite.

To many people have died to protect US interests, and far to many times they have backed the obviously bad guys for the world to consider that when the Americans get involved things will turn out well for the citizens involved. They squandered their good name for a barrel of oil metaphorically speaking.

The reality seems to be that America has overstretched itself and they know that they cannot influence affairs in any serious way with regard to Iran. Israel are hopping mad because they thought that the US was there tame poodle and could be prodded into fighting this war for them.

Russia and China will no longer sit back and allow America and its proxy to interfere in regions they consider their sphere of influence and so nothing will happen for the foreseeable future. Bluster can only get you so far.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius
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and then

There are no good guys here - but destroying Iran will not suddenly make anyone better - quite the opposite.

To many people have died to protect US interests, and far to many times they have backed the obviously bad guys for the world to consider that when the Americans get involved things will turn out well for the citizens involved. They squandered their good name for a barrel of oil metaphorically speaking.

The reality seems to be that America has overstretched itself and they know that they cannot influence affairs in any serious way with regard to Iran. Israel are hopping mad because they thought that the US was there tame poodle and could be prodded into fighting this war for them.

Russia and China will no longer sit back and allow America and its proxy to interfere in regions they consider their sphere of influence and so nothing will happen for the foreseeable future. Bluster can only get you so far.

Br Cornelius

Hmmm, and what, exactly, does that have to do with the topic at hand my simian friend? Israel will eventually do what they feel they must - and that includes possibly doing nothing for now. Iran isn't anyone's friend and anyone that exults in an Iranian win over the US or the west is an idiot.

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SolarPlexus

Iran is Syrian friend. US interfered and managed to 'enhance' the revolution there somewhat but could not spread it well enough , so eventually it was put down by Assad. On the other hand they still cant get in Iran , although people there are less satisfied with Ahmadinejad than people in Syria under Assad..

Edited by SolarPlexus

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SolarPlexus
anyone that exults in an Iranian win over the US or the west is an idiot.

Win? What win ? You are really funny... like a child, who would "win" , "Iran vs USA" x)

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SolarPlexus

The Soviets invaded Afghanistan during the 80s , they had the superior technology and manpower, but were eventually pushed out (i.e. defeated) by guerilla mujahedeen with primitive technology scattered throughout the hills. Same happened in Vietnam, and is happening in Iraq and Afghanistan to US troops. You need to understand something... The age of direct combat army vs army is long over, this is underground warfare baby. Distant and hostile environments, people with rich history and culture, but also religious fanatics, sectarian violence,...... an army volunteer working for a salary going against the natives who will defend their lands for any cost. Technology doesn't matter here... Its clear who is going to "win", if that is your primary concern

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and then

Win? What win ? You are really funny... like a child, who would "win" , "Iran vs USA" x)

Perhaps you'd prefer the word prevail? Those here who seem to despise the US for reasons they regard as totally valid seem also to think that ANYONE who can give America a black eye is to be cheered onward. They are foolish and frankly probably cowards if the truth be known. If Iran prevails, succeeds, wins.. you choose the word, then they will eventually dictate a lot of what moves in the Gulf and the costs of doing business will go up for everyone at the whim of the mullahs. Not to mention the chance that a nuclear war could be stumbled into if Israel - on what will amount to continuous code red alert - mistakes a missile test for a nuke launch. I'm not sure how long it would take a Shahab 3 ballistic missile to cover the 1000 miles or so from Iran to Israel but it certainly would be in minutes. While nuclear war is probably not a realistic concern it is far from being a negligible one - at least to a thinking person. More likely though is that those who cheer them today will be too gutless to be honest when the fuel prices go through the roof - they will just fall back to the same old tired anti American rhetoric - but they WILL pay just like everyone else.

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SolarPlexus

enemies of America will pay ..... lmao . I didn't know this people exist? its like talking to a wall

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SolarPlexus
but they WILL pay just like everyone else.

nevermind xD

Edited by SolarPlexus

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Ccel

Perhaps you'd prefer the word prevail? Those here who seem to despise the US for reasons they regard as totally valid seem also to think that ANYONE who can give America a black eye is to be cheered onward. They are foolish and frankly probably cowards if the truth be known. If Iran prevails, succeeds, wins.. you choose the word, then they will eventually dictate a lot of what moves in the Gulf and the costs of doing business will go up for everyone at the whim of the mullahs. Not to mention the chance that a nuclear war could be stumbled into if Israel - on what will amount to continuous code red alert - mistakes a missile test for a nuke launch. I'm not sure how long it would take a Shahab 3 ballistic missile to cover the 1000 miles or so from Iran to Israel but it certainly would be in minutes. While nuclear war is probably not a realistic concern it is far from being a negligible one - at least to a thinking person. More likely though is that those who cheer them today will be too gutless to be honest when the fuel prices go through the roof - they will just fall back to the same old tired anti American rhetoric - but they WILL pay just like everyone else.

... oh really ?

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Br Cornelius

And Then, none of your bluster and hurt pride will change the facts on the ground. Its not about who wins or loses, its about facing reality.

Br Cornelius

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Space Commander Travis

They came to the table. What did they give up for the 20 billion or so in new business? They temporarily diluted their 20% enriched Uranium. They did not remove or disable a SINGLE centrifuge. The diluted U can be re enriched within 3 weeks. They have done nothing that is not reversible and they have made zero concessions that would impede them from being a nuclear weapons state within a few weeks of making the decision to be so. They sense weakness in Israel, they KNOW the US will do nothing. Those who feel this is somehow a win for the "good guys" make me wonder about the sanity of this generation. On the plus side though, it will make saying goodbye to the western way of life easier. Feeble minded people are not strong enough to survive in the world - maybe Darwin would concur.

Yes, i have to agree, what weakness do they sense in Israel? Because Israel hasn't yet blown them off the map? That's a sign of weakness?

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Space Commander Travis

Perhaps you'd prefer the word prevail? Those here who seem to despise the US for reasons they regard as totally valid seem also to think that ANYONE who can give America a black eye is to be cheered onward. They are foolish and frankly probably cowards if the truth be known. If Iran prevails, succeeds, wins.. you choose the word, then they will eventually dictate a lot of what moves in the Gulf and the costs of doing business will go up for everyone at the whim of the mullahs. Not to mention the chance that a nuclear war could be stumbled into if Israel - on what will amount to continuous code red alert - mistakes a missile test for a nuke launch. I'm not sure how long it would take a Shahab 3 ballistic missile to cover the 1000 miles or so from Iran to Israel but it certainly would be in minutes. While nuclear war is probably not a realistic concern it is far from being a negligible one - at least to a thinking person. More likely though is that those who cheer them today will be too gutless to be honest when the fuel prices go through the roof - they will just fall back to the same old tired anti American rhetoric - but they WILL pay just like everyone else.

That emphasis on oil prices is really an admission that America's interest is simply in being assured of a supply of cheap oil, isn't it? It's not so much to do with the fear of a global Islamic fundamentalist state, it's because the West is frightened of having to pay higher prices for gasoline and oil. Surely all that is all the more reason to concentrate on types of energy that aren't dependent on the Mad Mullahs. And if that was done, the Mad Mullahs wouldn't have nearly so much influence, would they.

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Br Cornelius

Once you strip away all the fancy self justifying rhetoric (the propaganda and lies) - its all just geopolitics with players playing their hands.

Br Cornelius

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and then

Yes, i have to agree, what weakness do they sense in Israel? Because Israel hasn't yet blown them off the map? That's a sign of weakness?

The Iranians have only stopped work on their nuclear program once in the last 2 decades. It was in 2003. Does that date sound significant in any way? If Israel was going to strike at the program they already would have - at least that's what the mullahs have concluded. I'm actually pretty zenned on what's coming but it frustrates me that so many seem more interested in expressing a hatred toward the US than in dealing with the real threat. But as I said, the aftermath of Iran deciding to assemble their weapon(s) will affect the whole world, NOT just America or Israel. It will be interesting to listen to the chuckles of delight and how they change on that fine day...

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