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Iran Hasn't attacked anyone in 200 years

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RoofGardener

Once you strip away all the fancy self justifying rhetoric (the propaganda and lies) - its all just geopolitics with players playing their hands.

Br Cornelius

I suspect there is a great deal of truth in that, Br Cornelius. However, I would phrase it slightly differently, and add a rider...

"..its all just geopolitics with would-be players attempting to play their hands..."

Fortunately, however, I suspect their success ratio is on a par with climate predicters.

Iraq - for example - was supposed to be a USA oil-grab ... but I don't beleive they ever got much (if any) oil out of it - certainly not enought to cover the cost of the war....nowhere NEAR it. Moreover, they are unlikely to get preferential access to it in the future once Iraq collapses into an Islamic Wafq. (Say, another two years tops ?).

Set against events of the last few decades the idea that world events are controlled by a cabal of the Rothschilds, Bilderberger attendee's, Masons, Illuminati and - of course - the Jews seems highly amusing.As a secret manipulative society they seem spectacularly - indeed comically - incompetent. On a par with Dr. Evil or Dick Dastardly.

Edited by RoofGardener

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Space Commander Travis

I suspect there is a great deal of truth in that, Br Cornelius. However, I would phrase it slightly differently, and add a rider...

"..its all just geopolitics with would-be players attempting to play their hands..."

Fortunately, however, I suspect their success ratio is on a par with climate predicters.

Iraq - for example - was supposed to be a USA oil-grab ... but I don't beleive they ever got much (if any) oil out of it - certainly not enought to cover the cost of the war....nowhere NEAR it. Moreover, they are unlikely to get preferential access to it in the future once Iraq collapses into an Islamic Wafq. (Say, another two years tops ?).

Set against events of the last few decades the idea that world events are controlled by a cabal of the Rothschilds, Bilderberger attendee's, Masons, Illuminati and - of course - the Jews seems highly amusing.As a secret manipulative society they seem spectacularly - indeed comically - incompetent. On a par with Dr. Evil or Dick Dastardly.

if on the other hand there is no secret cabal, but it is in fact all down to the Bushes and the Obamas, then well, that wouldn't take too much of an effort to believe, would it ..?

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RoofGardener

if on the other hand there is no secret cabal, but it is in fact all down to the Bushes and the Obamas, then well, that wouldn't take too much of an effort to believe, would it ..?

I could easily believe the intent , but the outcome - in this particular case - was a spectacular backfire.

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RavenHawk

I seem to recall that this statement many years ago on other forums went something like “But Iran hasn’t attacked anyone in 500 years”. Then later it went down to 300. Now it is 200. In a few more years, is it going to be down to 100 years? Or will we not need to wait much longer until it’s down to “last week”?

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Br Cornelius

I seem to recall that this statement many years ago on other forums went something like "But Iran hasn't attacked anyone in 500 years". Then later it went down to 300. Now it is 200. In a few more years, is it going to be down to 100 years? Or will we not need to wait much longer until it's down to "last week"?

Are you suggesting there in a race to catch up with America ??

Br Cornelius

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and then

Are you suggesting there in a race to catch up with America ??

Br Cornelius

Ba doom tisss

I bet you see little demonic uncle sams's in your nightmares :w00t:

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SolarPlexus

NATO is a nightmare to the free world because USA didn't stop waging war since its founding and its sphere of influence has grown to encompass the planet.... since the fall of USSR it has become even more dramatic, USA seeking to grab more land and control before a new power emerges and the world becomes bipolar again

Edited by SolarPlexus

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and then

NATO is a nightmare to the free world because USA didn't stop waging war since its founding and its sphere of influence has grown to encompass the planet.... since the fall of USSR it has become even more dramatic, USA seeking to grab more land and control before a new power emerges and the world becomes bipolar again

Our borders have been set in stone for over 190 years or so. I think the only country that RECENTLY has grabbed land would be Russia. Of course, that little adventure isn't done yet but I'm sure they will have the land in the end. Hopefully the Ukrainians will make them pay a prohibitive price for it though. :gun::st

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Space Commander Travis

I could easily believe the intent , but the outcome - in this particular case - was a spectacular backfire.

Again, if it was the Bushes and o'Bama that were the masterminds behind it, again, is that so surprising?

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Space Commander Travis

Our borders have been set in stone for over 190 years or so. I think the only country that RECENTLY has grabbed land would be Russia. Of course, that little adventure isn't done yet but I'm sure they will have the land in the end. Hopefully the Ukrainians will make them pay a prohibitive price for it though. :gun::st

There are more ways of exerting influence than simply grabbing land, such as deposing governments (or "regimes", when they're government's you don't like) that don't do what you want them to do, and installing puppet governments more sympathetic to your aims and ambitions, for instance. Can we think of any cases where the US has done that in living memory ... ? :cry:
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Br Cornelius

Ba doom tisss

I bet you see little demonic uncle sams's in your nightmares :w00t:

Just trying to help you rebalance your rather skewed view of reality. I don't believe in demons.

Br Cornelius

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RoofGardener

NATO is a nightmare to the free world because USA didn't stop waging war since its founding and its sphere of influence has grown to encompass the planet.... since the fall of USSR it has become even more dramatic, USA seeking to grab more land and control before a new power emerges and the world becomes bipolar again

I strongly disagree SolarPlexus. Without NATO - and the USA's support of NATO - then Poland, Germany and Finland would have been invaded by the Soviet Union in the 1950's and 1960's, along with Iran, Syria, and at least one or two of the Arab gulf states. The remaining (Nuclear) European states (France and Britain) would be nominally independent, but in reality virtual vassels to Soviet foreign policy, as would Belgium, Denmark, Norway and Sweden. (too much trouble to occupy).

With the oil production from the Gulf, and the scientific and technical capital of Europe to play with, the chances are that the Soviet Union would be the dominant military/political European power even today.

I'm not saying that all US foreign policy is benign. However, NATO has been VERY sucesfull.

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and then

There are more ways of exerting influence than simply grabbing land, such as deposing governments (or "regimes", when they're government's you don't like) that don't do what you want them to do, and installing puppet governments more sympathetic to your aims and ambitions, for instance. Can we think of any cases where the US has done that in living memory ... ? :cry:

There are more ways of exerting influence than simply grabbing land, such as deposing governments (or "regimes", when they're government's you don't like) that don't do what you want them to do, and installing puppet governments more sympathetic to your aims and ambitions, for instance. Can we think of any cases where the US has done that in living memory ... ? :cry:

I was answering post #108 - do try to keep up - (USA seeking to grab more land and control before a new power emerges and the world becomes bipolar again)

I realize this makes it somewhat more difficult to continue smoothly pounding your little drum but let's try, hmmm? :w00t:

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DeWitz

In regards to all this proxy stuff, perhaps we had better bomb Sweden because citizen Alfred Nobel created dynamite?

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and then

In regards to all this proxy stuff, perhaps we had better bomb Sweden because citizen Alfred Nobel created dynamite?

Cute. Do you really think that Hezbollah is so benign an organization? Or Hamas? These organizations are real and they kill frequently and they do so as a part of a geo political plan by Iran to advance their revolution.
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Br Cornelius

Cute. Do you really think that Hezbollah is so benign an organization? Or Hamas? These organizations are real and they kill frequently and they do so as a part of a geo political plan by Iran to advance their revolution.

Do you really think that the CIA or Mossad are benign organisations. Do you believe in the tooth fiery as well as demons.

Br Cornelius

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Do you really think that the CIA or Mossad are benign organisations. Do you believe in the tooth fiery as well as demons.

Br Cornelius

Well brutha I guess it all depends on who you think of as the good guys versus the bad guys. If in your world Hezbollah and Hamas seem okay to you then it says all any civilized person needs to know about you old son. And attempting to insult my intelligence is useless because I really don't CARE what anyone thinks of me - especially a twit ;)

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Br Cornelius

Well brutha I guess it all depends on who you think of as the good guys versus the bad guys. If in your world Hezbollah and Hamas seem okay to you then it says all any civilized person needs to know about you old son. And attempting to insult my intelligence is useless because I really don't CARE what anyone thinks of me - especially a twit ;)

They are all bad guys - anyone who kills and cheats and lies to achieve their aims is a bad guy. I find it impossible to draw the nice neat moral lines you find so easy, but then I suppose that comes with your black and white belief system.

Br Cornelius

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DeWitz

Cute. Do you really think that Hezbollah is so benign an organization? Or Hamas? These organizations are real and they kill frequently and they do so as a part of a geo political plan by Iran to advance their revolution.

Cute. Do you really think that Hezbollah is so benign an organization? Or Hamas? These organizations are real and they kill frequently and they do so as a part of a geo political plan by Iran to advance their revolution.

I said nothing about any [particular] organization; mine was a snide comment about the guilt-by-proxy approach some take to this discussion. As humans we're all guilty to some extent of voting for/supporting/shilling for some dastardly organization or another--if we're honest.

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Space Commander Travis

I was answering post #108 - do try to keep up - (USA seeking to grab more land and control before a new power emerges and the world becomes bipolar again)

I realize this makes it somewhat more difficult to continue smoothly pounding your little drum but let's try, hmmm? :w00t:

not really sure what you mean. The post to which you were replying, assuming that was the one you meant, said

NATO is a nightmare to the free world because USA didn't stop waging war since its founding and its sphere of influence has grown to encompass the planet.... since the fall of USSR it has become even more dramatic, USA seeking to grab more land and control before a new power emerges and the world becomes bipolar again

Which really I think anyone who didn't see any criticism of Uncle Sam as irrational, frothing hatred of America, would have to admit does have, if it is expressed in somewhat rhetorical terms, a grain or kernel of truth to it, does it not? Perhaps not ever since its founding, but certainly since 1945, it has grown to encompass the planet, through either military, political or economic means (and often all three go hand in hand). And it has supported all sorts of terrorist organisations or questionable regimes all around the world, hasn't it; the Mujahedeen, Pinochet's regime in Chile, Saddam when he was fighting the Mad Mullahs (and even supplied to those very same Mad Mullahs). It doesn't need to simply grab land by the old crude ways, it has much more sophisticated ways than that. So I really don't think it can talk very much about other countries supporting Terrorists. And nor can it really lecture to other countries when they may get militarily involved with others.

Edited by Colonel Rhubarb

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and then

not really sure what you mean. The post to which you were replying, assuming that was the one you meant, said

NATO is a nightmare to the free world because USA didn't stop waging war since its founding and its sphere of influence has grown to encompass the planet.... since the fall of USSR it has become even more dramatic, USA seeking to grab more land and control before a new power emerges and the world becomes bipolar again

Which really I think anyone who didn't see any criticism of Uncle Sam as irrational, frothing hatred of America, would have to admit does have, if it is expressed in somewhat rhetorical terms, a grain or kernel of truth to it, does it not? Perhaps not ever since its founding, but certainly since 1945, it has grown to encompass the planet, through either military, political or economic means (and often all three go hand in hand). And it has supported all sorts of terrorist organisations or questionable regimes all around the world, hasn't it; the Mujahedeen, Pinochet's regime in Chile, Saddam when he was fighting the Mad Mullahs (and even supplied to those very same Mad Mullahs). It doesn't need to simply grab land by the old crude ways, it has much more sophisticated ways than that. So I really don't think it can talk very much about other countries supporting Terrorists. And nor can it really lecture to other countries when they may get militarily involved with others.

Throughout history there has always been a dominant power that tends to "bully" the rest. Since every government tends to want to BE that power I find it hypocritical to attack whoever the top dog happens to be at any given time without also pondering the consequences the other possibilities might bring. As to the many sins of my government present and past the best I can say to you is that it is a government. You will be hard pressed to find one which hasn't done such things. And when it slips into obscurity and another rises to take it's place you will have to complain about that one as well - if you are to be just. Meanwhile when someone uses a clear term about taking land and I respond to that term then I am accurate. I did not realize I needed to read the mind of others who will (I think Obsessively) scrutinize my every word to find some flaw or misrepresentation. It's comical to see a person continually find fault with America then deny it with further rhetoric. You seem like a young person so maybe it's good news for you. Obama is well on his way to creating the America you seem so much to want. Happy days just ahead ;)

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Br Cornelius

I don't think its inevitable that Governments need to be bullies. Softer power is ultimately much more effective and you can look to the EU to see a different approach which uses incentives and persuasion to achieve its objectives. America will implode at some point mainly because the military that it needs to further its hard power is a drain on the economy and is the primary reason why the US is operating at a deficit. If it was a net earner to the state then the US might survive, but to achieve such global unpopularity whilst simultaneously sponging off the like of China to carry on abusing those countries it relies on for its resources means that few will be truly sorry when the end arrives.

I think the world will not tolerate another US style Empire again and the world will hopefully experience real progress as a consequence.

Br Cornelius

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Br Cornelius

Anyone who claims that israel isn't pulling the Americans strings is a damn fool;

Br Cornelius

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I don't think its inevitable that Governments need to be bullies. Softer power is ultimately much more effective and you can look to the EU to see a different approach which uses incentives and persuasion to achieve its objectives. America will implode at some point mainly because the military that it needs to further its hard power is a drain on the economy and is the primary reason why the US is operating at a deficit. If it was a net earner to the state then the US might survive, but to achieve such global unpopularity whilst simultaneously sponging off the like of China to carry on abusing those countries it relies on for its resources means that few will be truly sorry when the end arrives.

I think the world will not tolerate another US style Empire again and the world will hopefully experience real progress as a consequence.

Br Cornelius

One can dream - even if history has ALWAYS proven that particular dream to be false. That is the achilles heel of the left - they really believe "they" can do it better than the last who tried.

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Anyone who claims that israel isn't pulling the Americans strings is a damn fool;

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Br Cornelius

This from the Iranian mouthpiece? You couldn't at least find something from Haaretz? Or even RT?

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