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thedutchiedutch

[Merged] Flight MH370 to Beijing goes missing

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and then

Has anyone heard about the depth of the ocean in the vicinity of where the door was seen? If the debris field is scattered then it will point to catastrophic disintegration of the airframe of course, but if the ocean is really deep it may be a LONG time before any answers are found. God help those poor family members... they are probably in deep shock and denial.

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susieice

As I understood it, the plane was lost over the South China Sea, which is much shallower than the ocean around it. They said the ping from the black box should be rather easy to hear. Didn't give any specifics about the depth though.

Checked Britannica site. 3970ish ft. average depth. For some reason I can't copy and paste using firefox and I don't want to switch over to chrome. Having problems with it freezing. Just google for the average depth of the sea and you'll get several sites.

Edited by susieice

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jesspy

Has anyone heard about the depth of the ocean in the vicinity of where the door was seen? If the debris field is scattered then it will point to catastrophic disintegration of the airframe of course, but if the ocean is really deep it may be a LONG time before any answers are found. God help those poor family members... they are probably in deep shock and denial.

It should be pretty shallow considering where they disappeared.

It took five days for authorities to locate the wreckage of Air France Flight 447 when it crashed June 1, 2009, in the Atlantic Ocean, killing all 228 on board.

It took four searches over the course of nearly two years to locate the bulk of Flight 447's wreckage and the majority of the bodies in a mountain range deep under the ocean.

If Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 went down in the Gulf of Thailand, the recovery may be a bit easier because it is a relatively shallow area of the South China Sea, according to marine officials.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/08/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane-missing/

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susieice

The 11o'clock news just said what they think is wreckage was in the Gulf of Thailand, which is a very shallow arm of the South China Sea. I googled and the average depth is 45m with the maximum depth of 80m. This should make the plane pretty easy to find. They should be able to pick up the sound from the black box easily.

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Peter B

All the speculation is that these people were terrorist, but this is also an area infamous for it's drug trafficking.

And for people smuggling. Many possibilities, no evidence to point in any direction.

The fact that this plane may have been turning indicates to me more of a mechanical problem, maybe compounded by pilot error. Why would a terrorist detonating a bomb make the plane turn back? I would think it would just blow.

That depends on the size of the bomb. Yes, above a certain size the plane is going to immediately crash (like the Lockerbie B-747). But a smaller bomb might blow out little more than a window. It might be that the crew didn't know the extent of the damage and had enough time to turn around before the damage became too much to keep the plane aloft. It could be that the plane was largely out of control and the path it took happened to look like it was turning back. Once again, many possibilities, no evidence to point in any direction.

As for the crew not saying anything, there are also multiple possible explanations, including that the crew were simply too busy trying to fly the plane for anyone to have time to talk, or that the radio was inoperative.

Just thinking things through here. I'm going to wait until the wreckage is found to make a call on what happened.

Well, I'm not going to bother to make a call even after the evidence is recovered: I'm not an expert in interpreting crash evidence, and we're not likely to be given a comprehensive list of recovered wreckage with which to make a judgement, nor access to the information on the Flight Data Recorder or the Cockpit Voice Recorder.

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susieice

http://www.theguardi...iencequestions3

The plane was flying at cruising speed and altitude, which they said was 35,000 ft.

Edited by susieice

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Jilliman

My guess would be either: A. Act of terrorism (hijacking or a bomb) or B. Got shot down (more than likely by mistake) by another country or collided with a test missile (would guess North Korea as they are always testing stuff out but could be anyone).

Just hope they find the plane so families can get closure.

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RoofGardener

It doesn't have to be a bomb, missile or terrorist act. Recall the Air France plane that crashed after leaving Brazil.

It ran into inclement weather, causing two speed sensors to freeze up, one after the other. That meant that the plane's computer no longer knew how fast it was travelling, and hence no longer knew whether the plane was in danger of stalling. Accordingly, it sulked at the impossibility of being at zero speed, but 35,000 feet; dropped out of autopilot and into manual control.

This freeze-up also caused a cascade of different alarms to sound, confusing the pilots even more.

Seemingly unaware that their speed indicators where malfunctioning, the pilots allowed their air speed to reduce, which also reduced altitude. Bizzarely, this latter factor went un-noticed for many many minutes (possibly because the pilots where distracted by the other alarms). Eventually, the plane stalled and went into a flat spin.

Again, the pilots where initially baffled by what was happening. They worked it out in the end, but they where too low to recover, and ran out of sky. THEY never radio'd to air traffic control, either.

( I may not have gotten that sequence entirely right, but I believe that is roughly what the air accident investigators concluded).

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Mr.United_Nations

Remember they believe the plane turned back and the weather was clear and calm, something happened that made that action happen.

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susieice

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Thailand

This isn't the original link I found last night, but again, it shows the depth of the Gulf of Thailand to be on average 45m and at it's deepest, 80m. I'm not the best converter from metric but I believe a meter is a little over a yard. At 80m, that comes close to the 100 yard length of a football field. That's not that deep. Surely not enough that the plane and all those people could just disappear without a trace even if it did explode. Somethings got to float. The seats in an airliner are floatation devices. Not making any sense at all. Both the black box and the cockpit voice recorder should be emitting a ping that would not be difficult to pick up in that shallow of water. The South China Sea itself averages a depth of about a half mile or so. Don't know why they can't find anything.

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susieice

Love the alien twist! Seriously though, if the man was able to ring his brother's cellphone that may indicate that the phone is not underwater. Wonder if anyone else thought to do this.

Yes!! More than one!!

http://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/21903251/family-phoned-passengers-on-missing-malaysia-airlines-flight/

Would these phones work if they were submerged?

Edited by susieice

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thedutchiedutch

Love the alien twist! Seriously though, if the man was able to ring his brother's cellphone that may indicate that the phone is not underwater. Wonder if anyone else thought to do this.

Yes!! More than one!!

http://au.news.yahoo...irlines-flight/

Would these phones work if they were submerged?

I chuckled when I saw the alien twist. Sure the writer is being sarcastic.

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susieice

Found another link. This may be the quickest way to solve the mystery. Trace the cellphones!

http://www.news24.co...nswers-20140310

I wouldn't think all these phones would be working if they fell 35,000 ft in some sort of a breakup in air or impacted the ground in some sort of a crash either.

Edited by susieice

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thedutchiedutch

Here is another take on the cell phone mystery :

Malaysia Airlines Passengers' Phones Ringing? Maybe Not.

Reports are emerging that some cellphones of passengers on the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 are ringing — but no one picks up. However eerie this seems, it may have more to do with how mobile phones and networks operate than any deeper mystery.

According to a China.org.cn.report, 19 families signed a statement saying that dialing their loved ones' phones leads to a ring, rather than going straight to voicemail, as one would expect of a phone in airplane mode or otherwise unable to be reached.

But it's not that simple. When you hit the call button on some phones, a ringing tone begins immediately.

"However, that does not mean the phone you are calling is ringing yet," wrote wireless analyst Jeff Kagan in an email to NBC News. "The network is searching for the phone. First based on where it last was, then it expands. Then if the network can't find the phone, the call terminates."

The search for the party on the receiving end may be nearly instantaneous, or take a few seconds — during which time the phone (depending on model, network and other variables) may or may not make a ringing noise to indicate to the caller that it is attempting to make the cell connection.

So while it may ring four times for you, the person you're calling may only hear it ring once -- or not at all.

Link to full article : http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/missing-jet/malaysia-airlines-passengers-phones-ringing-maybe-not-n49371

Edited by thedutchiedutch
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susieice

So if the phone is unavailable, the caller would still hear it ringing. Think I got it. But if the receiver would hear his phone ring at all, didn't that connection bounce off a tower that could be traced? I'm thinking the phone would have a specific signal that the network would be searching for. Now I'm really curious. I wonder if any of those phones rang.

Here's an article suggesting that the transponder may have been shut off deliberately. That makes me suspect a hijacking as more likely than a bomb blast. Why would terrorists just make a plane disappear? What's the point if no one ever knows anything? Strange, strange thing happening here.

http://www.theguardi...ppear-off-radar

Edited by susieice

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tinysbox13

Wonder if this is some sick way of trying to bring Lost back?

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Bavarian Raven
Wonder if this is some sick way of trying to bring Lost back?

I thought this might be the lead up to a new season of lost :no:

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Still Waters

Latest -

Military says last tracked plane hundreds of miles off course

http://www.telegraph...crash-live.html

and -

Malaysia Airlines MH370: Stolen passports 'no terror link'

http://www.bbc.co.uk...d-asia-26525281

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Macroramphosis

From the Telegraph website :

"16.30 Tom Phillips, our correspondent in Kuala Lumpur, says villagers from near Marang, on Malaysia's eastern coast, told police they had heard a "loud and frightening noise" at around 1.20am on Saturday morning.

Alias Salleh, a 36-year-old lorry driver told Malaysia's The Sun Daily, he and friends had run towards the source of the noise, "but did not see anything unusual".

The noise sounded like "the fan of a jet engine," Mr Salleh added.

Mohd Yusri Mohd Yusof, a 34-year-old villager, said: "My friends and I heard the ringing noise for about two minutes.""

Marang is directly on the route along which the plane would have both gone, and returned on, if trying to get back to KL, so I suspect there are probably planes in that area now and we'll hear something soon. This is way out on the southern edge of the search pattern so it makes sense no one has probably even looked here so far. I fear there is no surprise happy ending to this story at all. :(

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Bavarian Raven

I doubt there was ever going to be a happy ending to be honest.

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Macroramphosis

I agree, but there was some faint hope the plane would be found on land, in some semblance of order, with survivors...... I'm sure a working cellphone would have brought that scenario to life though....

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Mr.United_Nations

From the Telegraph website :

"16.30 Tom Phillips, our correspondent in Kuala Lumpur, says villagers from near Marang, on Malaysia's eastern coast, told police they had heard a "loud and frightening noise" at around 1.20am on Saturday morning.

Alias Salleh, a 36-year-old lorry driver told Malaysia's The Sun Daily, he and friends had run towards the source of the noise, "but did not see anything unusual".

The noise sounded like "the fan of a jet engine," Mr Salleh added.

Mohd Yusri Mohd Yusof, a 34-year-old villager, said: "My friends and I heard the ringing noise for about two minutes.""

Marang is directly on the route along which the plane would have both gone, and returned on, if trying to get back to KL, so I suspect there are probably planes in that area now and we'll hear something soon. This is way out on the southern edge of the search pattern so it makes sense no one has probably even looked here so far. I fear there is no surprise happy ending to this story at all. :(

Doesn't fit with the of course theory

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susieice

http://www.cnn.com/2...lane/index.html

This is one of the craziest things I have ever heard of. How could this plane be suffering a catastrophic failure, do a 180 and fly for another hour, possibly an hour and a half in the wrong direction? In all that time, none of the pilots pushed the radio button and said "help"!

There's even a way you can help.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/11/us/malaysia-airlines-plane-crowdsourcing-search/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Edited by susieice
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Jilliman

I'm wondering if it was a hijacking gone wrong due to the change in course. Maybe the hijacker knew a lot about planes and how to make them go off the radar hence why they turned around. Then something could have happened that made it crash. Maybe the hijacker miscalculated or they ran out of fuel. This is just such a strange case. My thoughts go out to the families. They can't even mourn because no one truly knows if the passengers are dead or not.

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