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OverSword

Homeland Security Unscheduled Drill

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Babe Ruth

It seems like if a police officer told you to move because you're about to get run over by a bus, instead of moving, you'd turn around and start crying about how evil the government is becoming and how the police are trying to "condition" you do respond to their orders. You'd scream about how the police have no right to tell you what to do, and how his one word, "Move!" has single-handedly stripped you of all your hard-earned freedoms and reduced you to a slave of the system. It is therefore your duty, as an american, to stand your ground and oppose this vile scum hellbent on representing an oppressive system. Stand your ground and show the government that you will not bow down to their uniformed minions, you will not fall in line like sheep and "obey" the police officer who is "ordering" you to move out of his own "desire" to express his "control" over you and "condition" you to be an obedient slave of the system!

And then you wonder why you got run over by the bus.

Just to illustrate how wrong a human can be, and how embarrassing ignorance can be when shown in public, my grandfather was a Chicago cop back in the days of Al Capone. He used to regale us kids with stories of cops and robbers and such.

So your claim that I don't respect or show respect to cops is so inaccurate that it's laughable. I socialize with several cops and have been on a first name basis with the last 3 sheriffs of this county.

Ignorance may very well be bliss, but it is also laughable. What a self righteous fraud you are.

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Babe Ruth

Asides for the asinine "conditioning" accusations, what is the actual complaint here? That real cops took part? Instead of what, teachers running around with water guns, pretending they knew what they were doing and acting like cops don't act?

Speaking only for myself, the actual complaint is that human behavior means something, and conditioned behavior manifests in all species, including humans.

If you read the book by Philip Zimbardo, The Lucifer Effect, you will see the dark side of human behavior. It was all documented by way of the notorious Stanford Prison Experiment, which was ultimately terminated earlier than planned. Zimbardo headed it up, and was called in after Abu Ghraib became known.

It is for that sort of human behavior effect that I object.

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Stellar

So your claim that I don't respect or show respect to cops is so inaccurate that it's laughable. I socialize with several cops and have been on a first name basis with the last 3 sheriffs of this county.

My "claim", if you chose to listen, is that people like you instantly vilify everything and anything that anyone associated with the government does. Self-righteous fraud? That's quite the ironic accusation coming from someone who routinely trumpets his "open mindedness" and his ability to see through the "lies" that everyone else is tricked by.

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Skep B

The picture is from a drill that took place in 2012! And the children were fully aware of what was happening. Don't believe me? Then ask yourself why the children are all wearing safety goggles.

Clearly it's the world's biggest shop class

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ninjadude

Asides for the asinine "conditioning" accusations, what is the actual complaint here? That real cops took part? Instead of what, teachers running around with water guns, pretending they knew what they were doing and acting like cops don't act?

aquatus, for me, it's the "unannounced" part. Tornado drills, fire drills are announced. And expected by parents. "Terror" drills like this are not.

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Sir Wearer of Hats

aquatus, for me, it's the "unannounced" part. Tornado drills, fire drills are announced. And expected by parents. "Terror" drills like this are not.

And I explained that there's probably a schedule of drills, where only some are announced.

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ninjadude

And I explained that there's probably a schedule of drills, where only some are announced.

that parents knew about?

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Purplos

People's fire drills were announced in school? Ours never were. The alarm went off and you lined up and went outside.

In all my years of schooling, any school I was in never, ever caught on fire.

Hopefully in all these kids years of schooling, their building will never be overrun by terrorists or mad gunmen. So, what's wrong with doing a drill?

Edited by Purplos
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Stellar

"Why weren't they prepared!?"

"How dare they terrify our children by preparing!"

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Skep B

People's fire drills were announced in school? Ours never were. The alarm went off and you lined up and went outside.

In all my years of schooling, any school I was in never, ever caught on fire.

Hopefully in all these kids years of schooling, their building will never be overrun by terrorists or mad gunmen. So, what's wrong with doing a drill?

Yeah I got flood drills, shooter drills, and fire drill unannounced at my backwoods shack that I went to.

maybe its a private school/ public school thing?

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aquatus1

Speaking only for myself, the actual complaint is that human behavior means something, and conditioned behavior manifests in all species, including humans.

I agree, it does, and being that human behavior is a major part of what I do as an executive instructor on Global Economics, which I've often talked about on this forum, I definitely will not be taking any interest in your input. Bad enough I have to constantly correct you on subjects I only have a tangential knowledge of; I am certainly not going to entertain your pretense in my career field.

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Imaginarynumber1

:rolleyes: Your older generation has been conditioned to accept people of authority telling them to exit a building or grovel under their desks. :rolleyes:

Want to know the reason your country is having problems? Because people like you are too selfish to cooperate with anyone. Instead, you become adversarial and vilify anyone that tries to do anything productive. You walk around with this egotistical "**** you" attitude towards everyone else, as if no one has the right to speak to you --- and when they do, you throw a childish temper tantrum, claiming that it somehow violates your freedom, yet you can't explain how so without greatly exaggerating and outright lying about what happened.

It seems like if a police officer told you to move because you're about to get run over by a bus, instead of moving, you'd turn around and start crying about how evil the government is becoming and how the police are trying to "condition" you do respond to their orders. You'd scream about how the police have no right to tell you what to do, and how his one word, "Move!" has single-handedly stripped you of all your hard-earned freedoms and reduced you to a slave of the system. It is therefore your duty, as an american, to stand your ground and oppose this vile scum hellbent on representing an oppressive system. Stand your ground and show the government that you will not bow down to their uniformed minions, you will not fall in line like sheep and "obey" the police officer who is "ordering" you to move out of his own "desire" to express his "control" over you and "condition" you to be an obedient slave of the system!

And then you wonder why you got run over by the bus.

Good god damn points. So tired of all these people whining and outright lying about nothing at all.

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Imaginarynumber1

I agree, it does, and being that human behavior is a major part of what I do as an executive instructor on Global Economics, which I've often talked about on this forum, I definitely will not be taking any interest in your input. Bad enough I have to constantly correct you on subjects I only have a tangential knowledge of; I am certainly not going to entertain your pretense in my career field.

Isn't the the best when you're on this site and someone who knows nothing about the field you have studied for years tells you that you're wrong and gibes their 'alternative belief'?

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aquatus1

aquatus, for me, it's the "unannounced" part. Tornado drills, fire drills are announced. And expected by parents. "Terror" drills like this are not.

I have to say that this was not the experience at the schools I attended. That said, I traveled quite a bit as a child, and our schools were company organized and run, not public. We didn't have announced fire drills, or..."terror" drills (there really has to be a better word for that). We did have that sort of emergency drill though, because we did occasionally live in places like the Guajira region in Colombia, or Al Jubail in Saudi Arabia before it was the city it is today, and this did mean that the threat of an "armed event" wasn't an impossibility. I only attended American schools for a few years (mostly Catholic), and I honestly cannot recall a single drill of any kind (this was in the last years). I have taught in a few schools at times, and the ones I taught that had drills had them arranged like Sir Wearer of Hats mentioned, from more to less expected. As a Sea Cadet instructor, I know that I taught a child course in Escape and Evasion that did have me unannounced pulling a cap gun out of my bag and firing up in the air (That said, this was in a military center and all appropriate personnel were informed).

In all cases, according to the Homeland web page that offers these services, their portion involves training the school and helping them set up drills and demonstrations, so I can't help but think that this level of drill was something the school itself would have requested. The idea being implied here is that Homeland Security can wander into any school it chooses and start pretended to have a shooter walking in the hallways. This is, of course at best highly exaggerated, but considering the sources, more likely completely incorrect.

And yeah, the irony of accusing people of being "conditioned" while simultaneously not even bothering to do enough of a background check to note the picture accompanying an article is a picture plucked from Google Image is just plain mind-boggling.

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Sir Wearer of Hats

that parents knew about?

as I said, parents are told day and rough time in first term, that there'll be on "this week" in term two and not at all in terms 3 and 4 as drills aren't for their preparation but the kids'.

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Babe Ruth

I agree, it does, and being that human behavior is a major part of what I do as an executive instructor on Global Economics, which I've often talked about on this forum, I definitely will not be taking any interest in your input. Bad enough I have to constantly correct you on subjects I only have a tangential knowledge of; I am certainly not going to entertain your pretense in my career field.

Thank you, I am relieved.

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Babe Ruth

I have to say that this was not the experience at the schools I attended. That said, I traveled quite a bit as a child, and our schools were company organized and run, not public. We didn't have announced fire drills, or..."terror" drills (there really has to be a better word for that). We did have that sort of emergency drill though, because we did occasionally live in places like the Guajira region in Colombia, or Al Jubail in Saudi Arabia before it was the city it is today, and this did mean that the threat of an "armed event" wasn't an impossibility. I only attended American schools for a few years (mostly Catholic), and I honestly cannot recall a single drill of any kind (this was in the last years). I have taught in a few schools at times, and the ones I taught that had drills had them arranged like Sir Wearer of Hats mentioned, from more to less expected. As a Sea Cadet instructor, I know that I taught a child course in Escape and Evasion that did have me unannounced pulling a cap gun out of my bag and firing up in the air (That said, this was in a military center and all appropriate personnel were informed).

In all cases, according to the Homeland web page that offers these services, their portion involves training the school and helping them set up drills and demonstrations, so I can't help but think that this level of drill was something the school itself would have requested. The idea being implied here is that Homeland Security can wander into any school it chooses and start pretended to have a shooter walking in the hallways. This is, of course at best highly exaggerated, but considering the sources, more likely completely incorrect.

And yeah, the irony of accusing people of being "conditioned" while simultaneously not even bothering to do enough of a background check to note the picture accompanying an article is a picture plucked from Google Image is just plain mind-boggling.

Right! People are conditioned ONLY when they are told they are being conditioned! If it's not announced, it ain't conditioning.

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aquatus1

Well, I can't say I'm surprised that this would be your interpretation of my post.

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Gromdor

Being a military brat I remember doing the nuke drills and fire drills. Once the drama club was asked to get them selves dressed in make-up for injuries with little notecards describing their symptoms. It was actually kind of fun lying there pretending to be seriously injured while the base police, fire dept, and emergency rescued us.

As for conditioning... Well training is conditioning. The whole point of a drill is to train (condition) people into doing the right thing during an emergency. Both the rescuers and the students.

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Babe Ruth

Training exercises are useful tools, and humans do like to "follow the leader". :yes:

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The Silver Thong

I think that this kind of drill exposes the nation that accepts this as a very scared nation and not one I would care to live in. Whats next planes crashing into school drills. As was pointed out earlier how does one train for a lightning strike or a run away car.

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aquatus1

One trains for a lightning strike by learning how to avoid being in situations where it is most likely to happen, as trying to do anything while it is happening would be entirely too late. Same thing for cars, one is taught at a very early age to look both ways before crossing a street.

Preparing for emergencies isn't a sign of fear. It is a sign of preparation. It is no more cowardice than it is to have bottles of water and food in the event of an earthquake or hurricane. It is no different than having a fire drill. Danger is danger, in comes in all shapes and forms, and the reason we as a species have survived so long is that we are willing to acknowledge the danger and take steps to mitigate it, using that wonderful brain of ours.

It is nonsensical to acknowledge a danger, and then refuse to prepare for it because "being prepared would be cowardly".

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Agent0range

Have to agree..with a thunderstorm, I am taught to get out of the pool and put down the fishing rod. With a runaway car, I am taught to look both ways..

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Babe Ruth

Yeah, and with "terrorism", I am taught to consent to agents of the state groping me and taking my clothes off if necessary. If they are really suspicious of something, I am taught to consent to cavity searches.

And above all, I am taught to be afraid, very afraid, of whatever the bogeyman of the day is.

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OverSword

There is nothing different between an unscheduled lockdown drill and an unscheduled fire drill. The only differences are that instead of the children walking outside, they stay in the classrooms, and instead of firefighters, police cars show up.

Excuse me, when did the fire department ever show up at a school fire drill? It quite clearly states that 10 HLS officers where at the school. If they weren't part of the drill (like shown in the photo, and just what type of event was that photo from) then why were they there. Stellar, please stay in Canada where you don't mind exchanging freedom for protection. We in the US are not liking it. Edited by OverSword
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