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OverSword

Homeland Security Unscheduled Drill

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OverSword

It's either conditioning to prepare the kids for an emergency or it's conditioning to prepare the kids to feel that it;'s normal to have armed authority figures shouting orders at them.

No, it is not.

Seriously? Did you even read that before denying it?

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aquatus1
I'm not going to copy all of that

Good. You should only copy the relevant portions.

but let me say this Aquatus1...I am afraid of the government.

Good thing you aren't an animal trainer.

Who has the power on a daily basis to ruin my existence?

Everyone. And most everything.

Some terror group from the other side of the world or some organization that keeps tabs on my every financial transaction, opinion as posted online, income, taxes, right to drive, vote purchase....you name it.

Both. Heck, you can't even claim that one or the other is more likely to do it, intentionally or otherwise.

In what reality wouldn't that entity rightly be ranked as the highest threat to my personal freedom and safety?

If the highest threat to your personal freedom and safety are things the government has been doing for several years, then you are doing pretty good. The biggest threat to my personal freedom and safety is being fired from my job and having to live out on the streets.

Second and unescesarily, did you have lightning strike drills in school? No of course not, so why bring that up?

I didn't. Acidhead did:

How often does the GOV run lightning strike drills? Your chances are greater at being struck by one then any sort of terror attack.

I was responding to Silver Thong's post:

As was pointed out earlier how does one train for a lightning strike or a run away car.
It is a laughable example, obviously. and to quote you

What is it with all this thumping of the chest, lately, over the most chicken little scenarios that could be imagined?

Yes, I would have to agree it is a laughable example.

Exactly. What are the statistical chances of having to worry about an armed intruder shooting up a school. Nearly zero. So why does HLS feel the need to scare the bejebeez out of these students and teachers? Maybe because fear is control. Maybe just to see how much people will complain this once before they do it some more. Who knows, but it creeps me the "F" out brother.

Statistics? It's not so much statistics as it is risk/benefit calculation. To do that, you have to consider not just the probability of an event occurring, but also the consequences if it does occur.

You don't run fire drills, earthquake drills, lightning drills (I suppose. Never happened in my school, but heck, I'll keep an open mind), or even "shooter" drills, based on the statistical chances of them occurring. You run them because, in the event that they do occur, the price of failure is pretty damn high.

Fine I'm insane for thinking our government wants to control us through fear. Have it your way. But your way is wrong and I'm not insane.

Who is calling you insane, drama queen?

I am calling you insecure, in that you need the government to be the bad guy so badly that you resort to the flimsiest excuses to accuse them of anything.

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aquatus1

It's either conditioning to prepare the kids for an emergency or it's conditioning to prepare the kids to feel that it;'s normal to have armed authority figures shouting orders at them.

No, it is not.

Seriously? Did you even read that before denying it?

Yep. Did you bother thinking about it before you replied? For instance, did you bother to note that I differentiated between training and conditioning? Wouldn't the next logical question be "What's the difference?", not "Why aren't you listening to me?"

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OverSword

Thanks for the multiple out of context and fecesious responses A1. I get it. You think that it's reasonable to scare the crap out of everyone at a school except the principal by making them think theres a gunman on the campus. :gun:

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Sir Wearer of Hats

Training - knowing what to do in an emergency.

Conditioning - not panicking during an emergency.'

Seems to me, that drills (fire, lockdown, tornado, zombie etc) do both, you know what to do and you're not panicking because you're practiced it.

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OverSword

snip

goodnite everyone.

Edited by OverSword

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aquatus1

Thanks for the multiple out of context and fecesious responses A1.

What was out of context? I actually quoted what my responses were to. Heck, you are the guy who attributed someone else's statement to me.

I get it. You think that it's reasonable to scare the crap out of everyone at a school except the principal by making them think theres a gunman on the campus.

I haven't said anything about that one way or another.

Edited by aquatus1

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aquatus1

Training - knowing what to do in an emergency.

Conditioning - not panicking during an emergency.'

Seems to me, that drills (fire, lockdown, tornado, zombie etc) do both, you know what to do and you're not panicking because you're practiced it.

I would normally agree, except that there isn't a lot of conditioning in schools. For instance, in the military, it isn't just a matter of learning how to react in a given situation (training). It's also doing it over and over again so that it becomes second nature, so that it becomes part of your engrained behaviour (conditioning), which allows you to avoid panicking in an emergency (panicking occurs when someone freezes when they do not have a behavioural response to a situation).

Drills were few and far between in most of the schools I went to (and missing in the others). I won't say that there aren't schools where emergency management is taught frequently and intensely enough to change the behaviour of students, but it doesn't seem to be the norm, and it certainly isn't something Homeland Security seems to be encouraging.

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Sir Wearer of Hats

If you're defining "conditioning" as "doing things over and over sgin until it's second nature" s lot of what we do at schools is conditioning.

Phonics, spelling, number facts, times tables...... take it from someone who teaches both five year olds and twelve year olds there's a LOT of "conditioning" going on.

Take what you just read for example. I'm sure you could read it out loud without having to "sound out" any of the words, and you could easily tell what the misspelt word meant based on contextual clues you didn't even know you were using. You understand without having to think about it that the fully capitalised word is done so for emphasis without having to ask yourself "why is that word capitalised?"

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aquatus1

If you're defining "conditioning" as "doing things over and over sgin until it's second nature" s lot of what we do at schools is conditioning.

Well, yeah. That's pretty much the defining feature of conditioning, that it changes the behaviour of the one being conditioned. It is the mental aspect of the physical training.

Phonics, spelling, number facts, times tables...... take it from someone who teaches both five year olds and twelve year olds there's a LOT of "conditioning" going on.

Sure. No one argues against that.

"So the younger generations get used to a constant Neo-Gestapo presence around all the time and in charge of everything.", on the other hand...that one is a bit harder to defend.

Take what you just read for example. I'm sure you could read it out loud without having to "sound out" any of the words, and you could easily tell what the misspelt word meant based on contextual clues you didn't even know you were using. You understand without having to think about it that the fully capitalised word is done so for emphasis without having to ask yourself "why is that word capitalised?"

We...aren't actually talking about daily academic process. As I mentioned before, I don't believe, but stand to be corrected, that emergency management is a daily course in the average high school.

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Likely Guy

Quite true. In the very recent past this particular drill would have been deemed unacceptable and unecessary. IMO it still should be. I'm not afraid of terrosts. At least not the kind our government would have me fear.

I looked and couldn't find one outraged parent. Could you please direct me to one.

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Stellar

Agreed. Im mean what could possibly go wrong allowing several hundred kids, and teachers to think they are about to get shot in the head by a lunitic??

What could possibly go wrong with allowing several hundred children and teachers to think they're about to burn alive in a school?

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Jeremiah65

Dude....this is exactly the type the Neo-Gestapo loves to have around...never question anything...even when it's totally off the chain ridiculous and obvious

flockofsheep_zpsf1a6a84d.gif

quote-there-s-none-so-blind-as-they-that-won-t-see-jonathan-swift-352045_zps4680886c.jpg

It's fine...wallow and grovel at their boots...make sure to watch as your wife, children and family do as well....

Denial is not a river in Egypt....if you choose to ignore the militarization of police...their ever increasing brutality...and the conditioning and indoctrination tools they are using on the USA public...fine...live on your knees.

Edited by Jeremiah65
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Stellar

Never question anything? You mean, like, the picture in the OP.

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Jeremiah65

Sorry...I didn't post the picture and that has been explained.

Try again...

Like...question....why is it necessary to have guns drawn in the presence of children in an exercise?

Regardless if the picture does not fit the specific circumstance...you should be outraged that this happened at all...last week, last month, last year...

Have some more of the Kool aid and go back to sleep sheep...

Edited by Jeremiah65
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Stellar

Sorry...I didn't post the picture and that has been explained.

Try again...

Like...question....why is it necessary to have guns drawn in the presence of children in an exercise?

Regardless if the picture does not fit the specific circumstance...you should be outraged that this happened at all...last week, last month, last year...

Have some more of the Kool aid and go back to sleep sheep...

Because typically, training is done to simulate reality as closely as possible. If in real life guns would be drawn, then it would be incompetent to not do so in training.

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Drayno

It's good to prepare for potential disaster.

But this is good old fashioned brainwashing.

Scare the kids into submission, mold them to your will.

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aquatus1

Dude....this is exactly the type the Neo-Gestapo loves to have around...never question anything...even when it's totally off the chain ridiculous and obvious

Yes, it is totally ridiculous and obvious that the neo-Gestapo are training our children to be obedient slaves by teaching them how to survive in a situation where someone is trying to kill them

It's fine...wallow and grovel at their boots...make sure to watch as your wife, children and family do as well....

Hey, if you are into the kinky lifestyle, more power to you. Just please leave my wife and children out of it.

Denial is not a river in Egypt....

Correct. It is little more than a tired cliche by someone without an original thought in their mind (comes from focusing so much on telling others they don't think for themselves that you forget to think for yourself). But hey, feel free to show us how much you are not a sheep by posting more memes and quoting more and more tired cliches! That'll show us what an individual you are!

if you choose to ignore the militarization of police...their ever increasing brutality...and the conditioning and indoctrination tools they are using on the USA public...fine...live on your knees.

I'd rather live on my knees and still be able to see and enjoy the world around me than live with my head up somewhere dark and think I have the world all figured out.

It's good to prepare for potential disaster.

But this is good old fashioned brainwashing.

Scare the kids into submission, mold them to your will.

So, who was scared?

Where there any reports, at all, about anyone involved even remotely worried about this?

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Drayno

Yes, it is totally ridiculous and obvious that the neo-Gestapo are training our children to be obedient slaves by teaching them how to survive in a situation where someone is trying to kill them

Hey, if you are into the kinky lifestyle, more power to you. Just please leave my wife and children out of it.

Correct. It is little more than a tired cliche by someone without an original thought in their mind (comes from focusing so much on telling others they don't think for themselves that you forget to think for yourself). But hey, feel free to show us how much you are not a sheep by posting more memes and quoting more and more tired cliches! That'll show us what an individual you are!

I'd rather live on my knees and still be able to see and enjoy the world around me than live with my head up somewhere dark and think I have the world all figured out.

So, who was scared?

Where there any reports, at all, about anyone involved even remotely worried about this?

I'd say the children were scared if a cadre of unannounced people show up and the school goes into lock down. I know I would be.

When I graduated high school, which was only in 2011, I recall we had numerous color-coded scenarios. Code Blue was the worst one you could have, signifying an armed intruder. Blinds go down, doors locked, and whomever walks by and tries to force their way into the classroom. The difference between a school administrator planning a simulated worst-case scenario and the involvement of The Department of Homeland Security at a school under a guise of an unannounced simulation is about as black and white as black and white.

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aquatus1
I'd say the children were scared if a cadre of unannounced people show up and the school goes into lock down. I know I would be.

The argument in this thread is that students are being scared into submission. If the students are not scared and the parents are not worried, then the argument falls apart. What you or I think they should feel is largely irrelevant.

When I graduated high school, which was only in 2011, I recall we had numerous color-coded scenarios. Code Blue was the worst one you could have, signifying an armed intruder. Blinds go down, doors locked, and whomever walks by and tries to force their way into the classroom.

Okay...I take it you were scared during these drills?

The difference between a school administrator planning a simulated worst-case scenario and the involvement of The Department of Homeland Security at a school under a guise of an unannounced simulation is about as black and white as black and white.

Ah...not really, no. Can you be bit more specific?

Are you under the impression that this wasn't planned by the school administrator, and DHS just showed up out of the blue and ran the drill without any previous contact?

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Drayno

The argument in this thread is that students are being scared into submission. If the students are not scared and the parents are not worried, then the argument falls apart. What you or I think they should feel is largely irrelevant.

Okay...I take it you were scared during these drills?

Ah...not really, no. Can you be bit more specific?

Are you under the impression that this wasn't planned by the school administrator, and DHS just showed up out of the blue and ran the drill without any previous contact?

I would argue that fear is an instrument to perpetuate an agenda. If a person is scared, they are more likely to be submissive. So that's logically consistent.

I would say I felt a bit unease; I knew it was a drill. But the point is, these children did not, and any emotions they felt, such as fear, as a result, were very real. In the end, reality is defined by an individual's experience. And if they had no prior knowledge about this drill beforehand, the reality of someone invading the school was a very feasible thing in their minds.

I used poor wording. Pardon me for that. Of course, in the Code-Blue scenarios, the school administrator had planned it and had prior knowledge. In this instance, as reported in the article, the administrator as well as the county's superintendent were the only one's that had any apparent knowledge that it was going to take place. Pondering that I said the DHS just showed up out of the blue, no offense to you, seems like you're putting words in my mouth. However, I'll just take the blame for very poor wording and leave it completely at that.

I'm saying the difference between these simulations, regardless if there was any prior knowledge by the faculty or the student population as a whole (and I'm not downplaying this point, as it's a crucial component to my logic - since I've already established the reality of the situation was what they perceived it to be, lacking any critical foresight), was that were was state-involvement in this drill. I mean to highlight both the state-involvement and forcing the student population to undergo a large amount of psychological stress by organizing a very convincing simulation, supposes a sort of incremental conditioning to accept and turn to militarized bureaucracies in any event, in our every day lives.

Just an analogy, and please bear with me, like the current Attorney General Eric Holder once said about brainwashing children to think the same way about guns, similar in vain to how the government had gotten children to think about cigarettes through state-funded social awareness programs, influencing the minds of susceptible youth is very easy if its done through repetition, and not the quality of information or experiences they go through. In other words, regardless if they understand what is being said to them or shoved down their throats, if you shove it down their throats enough times, on a sub-conscious level they will have their opinion's swayed incrementally, and then, eventually, all at once. If you progressively influence one generation, like my generation, which is the referred to as the millennial generation, then you already have that influence set in stock, ready to influence the next one. So progressively it becomes easier, and easier, until you have to exert almost zero effort. That's why they're called Progresive Liberals.

The children will be raised in an environment that already has that influence abundant, and that influence will only extend its reach and accelerate.

How many drills like this have been reported recently? I don't have any estimates, but I bet you my lunch tomorrow that they are a lot more abundant now than they were when I was a child, which was not that long ago. In hindsight, I grew up in Northern Virginia around 9/11 and the D.C. Sniper hysteria. I was in Cub Scouts at the time, and more than a few of our meetings had to be cancelled in fear that we'd be killed by the father/son sniper team; I lived not even ten minutes away from Dulles National Airport near Sterling, Virginia at the time. So I understand just how much fear was rampant and perpetuated through the media, and by extension, my worrying parents, who paid attention to the media, at the time.

I'm just saying, it's a process. If you're in the government, and you want to mold the next generation to fit your agenda or policies, beat it into them when they're young.

It worked in ancient Sparta, right? Get them while they're young. It worked with the Hitler Youth, right? Get them while they're young. It works in all major religions, right?

Young minds are key.

Edit: Typo.

Edited by Drayno
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Agent0range

I'd say the children were scared if a cadre of unannounced people show up and the school goes into lock down. I know I would be.

When I graduated high school, which was only in 2011, I recall we had numerous color-coded scenarios. Code Blue was the worst one you could have, signifying an armed intruder. Blinds go down, doors locked, and whomever walks by and tries to force their way into the classroom. The difference between a school administrator planning a simulated worst-case scenario and the involvement of The Department of Homeland Security at a school under a guise of an unannounced simulation is about as black and white as black and white.

So they are scaring 400 kids in submission? Boy, that will do so very much to further their "agenda" (God I hate that word, it is so overused on this forum by people that can't think for themselves). Until this becomes a widespread thing in schools, it makes no sense to come up with some sort of crazy theory. Conducting an exercise in .000001% of schools does not signify any sort of conspiracy.

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aquatus1
I would argue that fear is an instrument to perpetuate an agenda. If a person is scared, they are more likely to be submissive. So that's logically consistent.

No one disagrees, to the best of my knowledge. The question is whether or not anyone was actually scared.

I would say I felt a bit unease; I knew it was a drill. But the point is, these children did not, and any emotions they felt, such as fear, as a result, were very real. In the end, reality is defined by an individual's experience. And if they had no prior knowledge about this drill beforehand, the reality of someone invading the school was a very feasible thing in their minds.

But it doesn't really address the actual question, does it? Was anyone afraid? There don't seem to be any reports of it. There aren't even any reports of anyone being particularly put out.

I used poor wording. Pardon me for that. Of course, in the Code-Blue scenarios, the school administrator had planned it and had prior knowledge. In this instance, as reported in the article, the administrator as well as the county's superintendent were the only one's that had any apparent knowledge that it was going to take place. Pondering that I said the DHS just showed up out of the blue, no offense to you, seems like you're putting words in my mouth. However, I'll just take the blame for very poor wording and leave it completely at that.

And, in all fairness, that's kind of been my stance from the start of the thread with everyone, not just you.

I'm saying the difference between these simulations, regardless if there was any prior knowledge by the faculty or the student population as a whole (and I'm not downplaying this point, as it's a crucial component to my logic - since I've already established the reality of the situation was what they perceived it to be, lacking any critical foresight), was that were was state-involvement in this drill. I mean to highlight both the state-involvement and forcing the student population to undergo a large amount of psychological stress by organizing a very convincing simulation, supposes a sort of incremental conditioning to accept and turn to militarized bureaucracies in any event, in our every day lives.

Isn't that a bit circular? For the record, I disagree that using genuine state officers raised the level of stress in any remarkable degree and I disagree with the reference to militarized bureaucracies, but that aside, what exactly is the point of conditioning students to do something they already do?

When a cop or a firefighter in an emergency situation tells you to go somewhere, you go. That gets taught to us in kindergarden, not in high school.

Just an analogy, and please bear with me, like the current Attorney General Eric Holder once said about brainwashing children to think the same way about guns, similar in vain to how the government had gotten children to think about cigarettes through state-funded social awareness programs, influencing the minds of susceptible youth is very easy if its done through repetition, and not the quality of information or experiences they go through. In other words, regardless if they understand what is being said to them or shoved down their throats, if you shove it down their throats enough times, on a sub-conscious level they will have their opinion's swayed incrementally, and then, eventually, all at once. If you progressively influence one generation, like my generation, which is the referred to as the millennial generation, then you already have that influence set in stock, ready to influence the next one. So progressively it becomes easier, and easier, until you have to exert almost zero effort. That's why they're called Progresive Liberals.

And it is why it is called conditioning. But as I have stated several times now, it is the repetition that is lacking. They don't do this on a daily basis. Heck, I wasn't able to find anything that indicated that they even did this on a monthly basis.

How many drills like this have been reported recently? I don't have any estimates, but I bet you my lunch tomorrow that they are a lot more abundant now than they were when I was a child, which was not that long ago.

Why does it matter? Times change, cultures change, society changes. Once upon a time, there were no such things as fire drills.

I'm just saying, it's a process. If you're in the government, and you want to mold the next generation to fit your agenda or policies, beat it into them when they're young.

I agree it is a process. I teach it. What they are doing here isn't it.

It worked in ancient Sparta, right? Get them while they're young. It worked with the Hitler Youth, right? Get them while they're young. It works in all major religions, right?

Did you notice the commonality in all your examples? The one that is blatantly missing in public high schools?

Young minds are key.

Nah. They are just easier to work with. Doesn't mean you can half-ass it, though. Just because they are young doesn't mean you don't have to do it right.

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Taun

I'm not a fan of this type of training at all... The kids should have been given a drill like a fire or tornado drill and taught where to go, what to do - without armed police there, and knowing full well

that it was a drill... While the police practice the actual tactics at a "Hogan's Alley" type training center - such as an Army MOUT (fake town)...

What would they have done if one of these kids had a serious anxiety attack and hurt themself, or another?...

bad bad idea...

I still maintain that one of the first things I would do if suddenyl I was president would be to disband Homeland Security...

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Babe Ruth

Excellent post Drayno! :tu:

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