Homeland Security Unscheduled Drill

[OverSword 52,908]

So you were trying to do exactly what you and numerous others condemn the government for doing. Interesting.

Can you be more specific?

[Stellar 1,402]

Can you be more specific?

Misrepresenting something. Trying to spin something. Trying to stir up emotion in order to help push your agenda.

Funny how whenever the story of Newtown pops up on the news, people accuse the government of doing it to stir up emotion and push an agenda, yet you feel perfectly fine associating false images to a news article in order to do the same.

[OverSword 52,908]

Ouch! Bullseye!

[Agent0range 5,201]

Ouch! Bullseye!

That was a respectable post.

[OverSword 52,908]

It happens

[preacherman76 13,901]

Ok, that would be what you think the teachers and security should be doing, not the students.

At the risk of becoming capton obvious, yeah. I dont know anyone who thinks kids should be armed. Maybe at a college.

[Babe Ruth 4,841]

It happens

But it seems that actually, a damn is given?

Should people really care if their government acts outside the law or suppresses the truth?

[Skep B 4,405]

Should people really care if their government acts outside the law or suppresses the truth?

I don't think so. I think that for a society to remain decent, there needs to be people who represent that society who are tasked with doing indecent things in order to ensure the best for the society.

[OverSword 52,908]

I don't think so. I think that for a society to remain decent, there needs to be people who represent that society who are tasked with doing indecent things in order to ensure the best for the society.

Yet another case where this site could use a dislike button.

[Skep B 4,405]

I'm aware it's not a popular opinion. That's ok. I still like ya.

I just see the concept of morality as something with its own time and place.

[Babe Ruth 4,841]

I don't think so. I think that for a society to remain decent, there needs to be people who represent that society who are tasked with doing indecent things in order to ensure the best for the society.

I think I understand what you're trying to say--the existence of good and bad and other opposites--but not sure that a "decent" society will result when its citizens tolerate and encourage law breaking by those in government.

[Skep B 4,405]

I use decent loosely. I mean effective i guess.

I think, in a way, the republic that we live in is set to work like this.

The people elect the best, smartest, cleverest, most connected, etc among them to office, those in office do what is needed to make the country work.

I'm always one for diplomacy to be first instinct, but in the event that we deal with people who aren't willing to deal in diplomacy, I see no reason to try and play by any rules.

[preacherman76 13,901]

I'm aware it's not a popular opinion. That's ok. I still like ya.

I just see the concept of morality as something with its own time and place.

Well I for one would love to see what would happen if its time was now, and its place was here.

[preacherman76 13,901]

I use decent loosely. I mean effective i guess.

I think, in a way, the republic that we live in is set to work like this.

The people elect the best, smartest, cleverest, most connected, etc among them to office, those in office do what is needed to make the country work.

Is that what you think you are seeing happen? I see people working as hard as they can to destroy everything we inherited.

I'm always one for diplomacy to be first instinct, but in the event that we deal with people who aren't willing to deal in diplomacy, I see no reason to try and play by any rules.

But what if we have no real reason other then corprate and foriegn influance to demand diplomacy to begin with?

[Skep B 4,405]

Is that what you think you are seeing happen? I see people working as hard as they can to destroy everything we inherited.

You'll have to be more specific, I've lost nothing I'm not willing to part with. I'm sure people at the time of the civil war on the side of slavery thought they were entitled to that also.

But what if we have no real reason other then corprate and foriegn influance to demand diplomacy to begin with?

That's fine, whatever's in our best interest.

Well I for one would love to see what would happen if its time was now, and its place was here.

A facade of it maybe to lure the people we deal with into a false sense of security maybe. Someone with principles they'll not bend on are people who eventually will have something that can be held against them.

[Babe Ruth 4,841]

The trouble is, historically mankind has a very difficult time reaching an agreement on just what is in our best interest.

A few like to get into government so that our best interest becomes HIS best interest, but that's a cynical view, I know.

[preacherman76 13,901]

You'll have to be more specific, I've lost nothing I'm not willing to part with. I'm sure people at the time of the civil war on the side of slavery thought they were entitled to that also.

Are you willing to part with the ability to buy food, pay your morgage, and well basicaly everything money can buy? Cause thats what gonna happen once the dollar finaly crashes cause of our reckless spending, and massive debt. Once that happens, are you willing to part with the entire Bill of Rights? Then if history proves time lines true, are you willing to part with your life? With your childrens lives? Cause war will certainly be in the cards. A big one at that.

I dont believe in entitlement. But I do believe in civil liberty, not given to us by government, but by our very creator. I just think its unwise to wait till all is lost, before we stand up and say enough.

That's fine, whatever's in our best interest.

Our? How is it in our best interests to shed our blood for the bottom line of an oil company? Or for the bottom line of a bank? Getting nothing in return but higher taxes, while we watch our hard earned tax dollars go to them, cause they cant do business with any sence of morality. And are "to big to fail".

A facade of it maybe to lure the people we deal with into a false sense of security maybe. Someone with principles they'll not bend on are people who eventually will have something that can be held against them.

Thats a strange mind set. I would think those who only pretend to stand on principle would be much more likely to find themselfs in a situation where they can have something held against them. To be easily manipulated

Edited March 24, 2014 by preacherman76

[OverSword 52,908]

I'm aware it's not a popular opinion. That's ok. I still like ya.

I just see the concept of morality as something with its own time and place.

All I meant was I don't believe that good can be the result of evil action. For example, we like to demonize Iran as some kind of insane caliphate. And maybe it is. But the reason it is, is the result of the CIA and MI6 overthrowing the democratically elected government of Iran in 1951 and installing a dictator all so that we could maximize BP's oil profits in that country. In the short term it worked too, but just look what we have had since the late 70's as a result. Good is not the result of evil. Ever.

[Skep B 4,405]

Thats a strange mind set. I would think those who only pretend to stand on principle would be much more likely to find themselfs in a situation where they can have something held against them. To be easily manipulated

If you have no priniciple that you're not willing to part with, then nothing can be held agaisnt you, becasue then you're willing to part with it.

Our? How is it in our best interests to shed our blood for the bottom line of an oil company? Or for the bottom line of a bank? Getting nothing in return but higher taxes, while we watch our hard earned tax dollars go to them, cause they cant do business with any sence of morality. And are "to big to fail".

Well, first off all those who are"shedding blood" get to have a sense of purpose they probably wouldn't have had. so that's something for them, I guess. Whereas I don't care about that type of thing, I'm guessing others do.

These oil companies are run by people, these people hire other people who then buy things which employs others so on and so forth.

I'd say making sure business opperates smoothly is in everyone's best interest.

Are you willing to part with the ability to buy food,

food can be hunted and grown

pay your morgage,

i dont have a mortgage

and well basicaly everything money can buy?

so a barter system implimented? I could live with that, life's alla bout being adaptable

Cause thats what gonna happen once the dollar finaly crashes cause of our reckless spending, and massive debt

they said the same thing about the gold standard

.

Once that happens, are you willing to part with the entire Bill of Rights?

Yes, survival outweighs words written on a piece of paper hudnreds of years ago in my mind, I'll gladly side with whoever takes control

Then if history proves time lines true, are you willing to part with your life? With your childrens lives? Cause war will certainly be in the cards. A big one at that

I don't have children, can't have children as far as that's concerned. War is a part of humanity, there will always be war. It's a good opportunity for people willing to do things other people wont

I dont believe in entitlement. But I do believe in civil liberty, not given to us by government, but by our very creator. I just think its unwise to wait till all is lost, before we stand up and say enough.

This creator that you've established seems to have a very flexible mindset of civil liberties throughout history

Good is not the result of evil.

I can't argue the good/evil concept because i dont worry about thsoe things.

I will say your example is more in line with not knowing who you're dealing with or the factors youre surrounding yourself with.

the people in the CIA and MI6 thought the middle east would just conform to the western ways, and had they planned better and done their research, I'm sure they could've been more successful. But, you learn through mistakes.

[aquatus1 7,093]

Good gracious, Scheming, why it's almost like you've thought your position through in an intelligent and reasoned matter and come to a conclusion that you feel reflects the reality of the context in which it is being discussed in, in spite of it not ending with righteous indignation at the consequences and the search for a scapegoat for any and all troubles, regardless of how tenuous the connection might be.

[White Crane Feather 5,621]

I think it's a simple matter.

If they charged into the school guns drawn and screaming like that picture suggests.. Probably not a good idea. If it was just a lock down drill being blown out of proportion I don't see an issue. Practice is important. It's very misleading though to put a staged or other picture to a an article when its not the way it happened at all.

[aquatus1 7,093]

If they charged into the school guns drawn and screaming like that picture suggests.. Probably not a good idea.

That's what that picture is suggesting to you?

[Jeremiah65 3,062]

That's what that picture is suggesting to you?

Really Aquatus? You still refuse to accept the fact that there has been that exact scenario played out in schools before?...if I remember correctly...the pic that was 'chosen" was actually from that type of scenario. Cops stormed in, weapons drawn, shouting for the students to get on the floor.

Now you can defend this all you want. I hope your children and family have to endure this situation at some point. I could see this giving impressionable young minds PTSD.

You don't like that I believe this is all conditioning for the police state...which is exactly what it is...but that's fine...you are free to view this in whatever light you choose...

[OverSword 52,908]

Good gracious, Scheming, why it's almost like you've thought your position through in an intelligent and reasoned matter and come to a conclusion that you feel reflects the reality of the context in which it is being discussed in, in spite of it not ending with righteous indignation at the consequences and the search for a scapegoat for any and all troubles, regardless of how tenuous the connection might be.

I think your just impressed with anyone that does so many quotes in one post that nobody has the attention span to read every point/counter point. Just kidding don't kill me.

[aquatus1 7,093]

I think your just impressed with anyone that does so many quotes in one post that nobody has the attention span to read every point/counter point. Just kidding don't kill me.

Yes, the ability to create a post that takes longer to read than the two minute attention span of the average CT is indeed a skill that I find impressive, much more so than any display of individual thought and reasoning.