Creationism and Microwave Mentality

[ambelamba]

Or alternatively, Instant Ramen mentality.

Let's face it. Evolution is no fun. It doesn't sound magical or mystical enough. In fact, the concept can easily negate the notion of metaphysical shortcut. How boring.

Yeah, one veteran Assistant Director who was in the business for decade told us that it's a human nature to seek for a shortcut. And one guy we heard about went that way and now he is a goner.

Phillip Seymour Hoffman, the victim of shortcut mentality, chose the easier path by mingling with wrong crowd and fueling his pre-existing addiction issue. And now he is gone.

To me, supernatural miracle is nothing but a shortcut. In fact, a very nasty kind of cheating and a very unfair advantage. Plenty of people get ahead with dirty tricks already. Why do you want to make it worse?

I was wondering why Americans are so infatuated with miracles and angels. Well, maybe the comfortable American lifestyle ended up fueling the urge to seek for the shortcut, like we rely on remote control while chomping on a whole pizza that goes straight to our gluteus.

[Awake2Chaos]

I'm really tired of the American bashing. We are not all infatuated with angels or miracles.

And Philip Hoffman was clean for many years before he relapsed, so why did you bring him into it?

[Davros of Skaro]

I am going to throw a slice in the toaster oven.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

I'm really tired of the American bashing. We are not all infatuated with angels or miracles.

No you don't, but you do have a culture that makes a celebrity out of a football player who praises god for every kick, can't elect a president unless they're openly and publicly religious, you have laws specifically on the books because of the will of the religious community....

[+and-then]

No you don't, but you do have a culture that makes a celebrity out of a football player who praises god for every kick, can't elect a president unless they're openly and publicly religious, you have laws specifically on the books because of the will of the religious community....

That same mentality GIVES more charity to the world than anyone else by many times. Ambelamba is obsessively fixed on hating God and finding fault with anyone who doesn't. Actually it's kind of creepy but after a while it just gets boring and people ignore him - EXACTLY like most people here view me and my emphasis (obsession) on Israel and Zionism. I don't understand why he can't just let it go but it is his right to focus on anything that others wish to discuss with him I guess. Same as me with Israel. America has many problems but our belief in God is hardly one of the more pressing these days, don't you think? He's being pushed out of every public venue as fast as possible and the US will look like Britain in that regard by the next decade. Do you think the world will be better off then?

[Almagest]

I don't think it's just an American phenomenon. Here in OZ we get the same adverts for easy weight loss, easy money and easy stain removal. People over here are just as susceptible to magical thinking too.

Frankly I'm starting to think that the USA's dedication to free market fundamentalism is more harmful than their religious dedication. While there are plenty of crazy religious fundamentalists you can point to over there, it's nothing compared to the coven of Wall Street bankers who plunged the world into recession for their own gain and are shielded by the very people they ripped off.

[Sundew]

No you don't, but you do have a culture that makes a celebrity out of a football player who praises god for every kick, can't elect a president unless they're openly and publicly religious, you have laws specifically on the books because of the will of the religious community....

Been to Oz. Nice place and nice people. But America was settled by those seeking religious freedom, the Puritans and Pilgrims, and thus whose heritage shaped their government. Many of our founders were deeply religious and many of the original state charters reflected this as well. It's just not taught much any more. The early settlement at Botany Bay near Sydney was a penal colony, and Australia is a much more secular country. Both counties have changes a lot since their founding, not always for the better, depending on which side of the issues you stand.

As for electing a "religious" President, there is some debate about which faith Mr. Obama claims, if any.

[Awake2Chaos]

No you don't, but you do have a culture that makes a celebrity out of a football player who praises god for every kick, can't elect a president unless they're openly and publicly religious, you have laws specifically on the books because of the will of the religious community....

Have you ever lived in America? For a long duration, like years?

The majority of people I know don't take Tim Tebow seriously, Obama is not openly religious by any means, and give me some examples, please.

[Mr Walker]

Or alternatively, Instant Ramen mentality.

Let's face it. Evolution is no fun. It doesn't sound magical or mystical enough. In fact, the concept can easily negate the notion of metaphysical shortcut. How boring.

Yeah, one veteran Assistant Director who was in the business for decade told us that it's a human nature to seek for a shortcut. And one guy we heard about went that way and now he is a goner.

Phillip Seymour Hoffman, the victim of shortcut mentality, chose the easier path by mingling with wrong crowd and fueling his pre-existing addiction issue. And now he is gone.

To me, supernatural miracle is nothing but a shortcut. In fact, a very nasty kind of cheating and a very unfair advantage. Plenty of people get ahead with dirty tricks already. Why do you want to make it worse?

I was wondering why Americans are so infatuated with miracles and angels. Well, maybe the comfortable American lifestyle ended up fueling the urge to seek for the shortcut, like we rely on remote control while chomping on a whole pizza that goes straight to our gluteus.

Miracles and angels aren't short cuts they are just a part of life. When I had a heart problem which would have caused me to drop dead within months, I had a triple by pass and the best medical treatment in the modern world . Was that cheating compared with some poor bloke in Somalia. . I was also visited by an angel who offered me direct words, and the physical empowerment, of hope, courage, and a guarantee that all would be well. How was that cheating any more than a visit from a psychologist counsellor, or a pastor?

The illness was undiagnosed and undetectable from external symptoms .God told me to get to a hospital and get checked out, and without that help I would now be dead . Cheating? Well if you think so. I am simply grateful that i have a caring competent and powerful heart specialist and a caring competent and powerful god to watch over me.

Edited March 16, 2014 by Mr Walker

[Doug1029]

I was wondering why Americans are so infatuated with miracles and angels. Well, maybe the comfortable American lifestyle ended up fueling the urge to seek for the shortcut, like we rely on remote control while chomping on a whole pizza that goes straight to our gluteus.

Or maybe it's because we have a city named for the angels - Los Angeles.

Doug

[Sundew]

Miracles and angels aren't short cuts they are just a part of life. When I had a heart problem which would have caused me to drop dead within months, I had a triple by pass and the best medical treatment in the modern world . Was that cheating compared with some poor bloke in Somalia. . I was also visited by an angel who offered me direct words, and the physical empowerment, of hope, courage, and a guarantee that all would be well. How was that cheating any more than a visit from a psychologist counsellor, or a pastor?

The illness was undiagnosed and undetectable from external symptoms .God told me to get to a hospital and get checked out, and without that help I would now be dead . Cheating? Well if you think so. I am simply grateful that i have a caring competent and powerful heart specialist and a caring competent and powerful god to watch over me.

Interesting story, I have a friend with a similar one, minus the angels. So what is the state of Christianity in Oz these days? Growing or shrinking? Just curious.

[Rlyeh]

The law's of averages negates the possibility that life can come about through a random process from non living matter. Flip a coin and predict what side it will land upon. You can do this in a computer model and actually predict 50 percent of the time, it will be heads or tails, it's not the same in the real world, where there is no memory of a random event, all odds start from scratch unless guided and directed, or "programmed" in.

So chemical reactions are like flipping coins? Nonsense.

In the real world chaotic events still have an effect on the environment.

As a programmer, I would be taking into account future changes in environment, a very complex and not an easy task to accomplish. As a programmer though, I'm standing out side of the confines of time itself, knowing this is created for this purpose, and I direct how it's assembled, including when it's terminated, as an individual creation or as a species.

As a programmer, I know you're comparing two entirely different scenarios.

We have x amount of time in the universe, and the math mandates that an ordered, guided approach is the only possibility. What is observed in evolution is only watching what was created, through it's various steps, to change without changing genetic code, for just as an operating system works, so does it's many parts and internal programs.

Please show us this "math".

If we additional evidence, we can look to the bible, where it clearly discusses dinosaurs, not in a past time frame, but within a familiar one, one during the same timeline as the existence of man himself. We even have fossilized footprints in stone, fully formed dinosaur, and fully formed man, this is also proving against the evolutionists idea of the time time line.

Name one dinosaur in the Bible. Neither the behemoth or leviathan are a dinosaur.

http://paleo.cc/paluxy/behemoth.htm

[+Paranoid Android]

Interesting story, I have a friend with a similar one, minus the angels. So what is the state of Christianity in Oz these days? Growing or shrinking? Just curious.

In most of Australia, I'm of the understanding that it's shrinking, albeit at a lower rate than elsewhere in the world. However, in the Sydney Diocese, Christianity is actually on the increase (a particularly interesting statistic considering that the Sydney Diocese is strongly conservative; compare to England where liberalism in churches is rampant and church attendance is declining at just about the fastest rate of any country in the world). I personally think this is because Sydney is home to Moore Theological College, one of the better theological institutions worldwide, with a strong focus on ministry not just theology (their theology is also solidly evangelical/conservative). While primarily an "Anglican" institution, Moore College graduates are employed by several protestant denominations. And while many graduates go to other States or overseas, the majority stick around to run churches in Sydney, keeping the strong teaching and focus on evangelism within Sydney and thus Christianity is growing.

At least this was the case a few years ago. I'm not sure whether it's still the same, but my recent experience (aka, 12-18 months ago) with helping plant a new church in my former home-town indicates that new people are turning to Christ all the time. The church began with 9 people, my pastor rang me and asked if I wanted to help grow the church, so I joined a month after it began, with about 25 members. Two years later there were two services (morning and evening) with 45 people in the morning and about 30 people in the evening (with maybe an overlap of six-seven people who attended both services in order to help run the music or PowerPoint or afternoon tea/supper, that kind of thing). So at least in South West Sydney Christianity is flourishing, with dozens of these church plants happening all over the place.

Hope this information helps

~ Regards, PA

[Rlyeh]

Q So chemical reactions are like flipping coins? Nonsense.

In the real world chaotic events still have an effect on the environment.

A They have never been able to prove in any laboratory the capacity to take raw materials to form the proteins, much less actual dna. This is in a controlled environment to boot!

And this has what to do with your coin flipping analogy?

Q As a programmer, I know you're comparing two entirely different scenarios.

A Think as a programmer, and you are programming dna instead of computer code, it's not that far of a leap to take.

But you're not programming DNA, so why pretend you are?

Q Please show us this "math".

A Will give you a number if you want to go that route, but the odds are one in a number that cannot be measured., We simply don't have enough time in the universe to have the random formation to the correct proteins, to combine to create a single usable strand of dna. Much less more so, to have it evolve into something complex. The coin would have to flip along a vastly larger volume then time of existence permits.

Any number you give I can counter it. According to the math there has been more than enough time. http://www.evolution...robability-life

This coin flipping analogy is only attacking a straw man.

Q Name one dinosaur in the Bible. Neither the behemoth or leviathan are a dinosaur.

A Find one animal that matches that description that isn't a dinosaur.

The link listed a few. But if you want to take it literal, the behemoth could drink a river and leviathan breathed fire. They're mythological creatures. Edited March 17, 2014 by Rlyeh

[Mr Walker]

Interesting story, I have a friend with a similar one, minus the angels. So what is the state of Christianity in Oz these days? Growing or shrinking? Just curious.

As in most western countries church attendance is in decline . However most aussies profess a spiritual belief in some form of god or spirit. We have many new religions based on increasing migration But ausises do not take religion very seriously as a religion. It is more about the social good deeds of religious organisations who run many schools, universities, employment agencies, hospitals, nursing homes, charities etc. An increasing number of people are sending their children to private religious schools because both the standard of teaching and learning is high, and they teach old fashioned values and duties which govt schools are not allowed to teach explicitly. We do not talk about religion much outside of friends and families. Religious freedom and expression of religion remains protected and free under aussie laws. One interesting thing about australia is that the better educated you are the more likely you are to be religious Also the wealthy ad well educated tend to send their children to church schools perpetuating this situation. Of course the true religion in Australia is sport, and particularly aussie rules football.

[White Crane Feather]

That same mentality GIVES more charity to the world than anyone else by many times. Ambelamba is obsessively fixed on hating God and finding fault with anyone who doesn't. Actually it's kind of creepy but after a while it just gets boring and people ignore him - EXACTLY like most people here view me and my emphasis (obsession) on Israel and Zionism. I don't understand why he can't just let it go but it is his right to focus on anything that others wish to discuss with him I guess. Same as me with Israel. America has many problems but our belief in God is hardly one of the more pressing these days, don't you think? He's being pushed out of every public venue as fast as possible and the US will look like Britain in that regard by the next decade. Do you think the world will be better off then?

Ambelamba is on the aspergers spectrum. A common trait is a hyper focus on certain things and unyielding honesty. He deserves some leeway for his words, all of us would be a little more extreme in what we post if we did not have certain cognitive blocks. It's actually very healthy for him to express himself this way.

Edited March 17, 2014 by White Crane Feather

[White Crane Feather]

Frankly I'm starting to think that the USA's dedication to free market fundamentalism is more harmful than their religious dedication. While there are plenty of crazy religious fundamentalists you can point to over there, it's nothing compared to the coven of Wall Street bankers who plunged the world into recession for their own gain and are shielded by the very people they ripped off.

I thought you didn't like magical thinking.

[Doug1029]

The law's of averages negates the possibility that life can come about through a random process from non living matter. Flip a coin and predict what side it will land upon. You can do this in a computer model and actually predict 50 percent of the time, it will be heads or tails, it's not the same in the real world, where there is no memory of a random event, all odds start from scratch unless guided and directed, or "programmed" in.

Evolution is a directed process, not a random one. You are using the wrong model. The direction is provided by natural selection and it applies to non-living molecules as well as living ones. At the molecular level there is no clear dividing line between living and non-living. A sodium chloride molecule is clearly non-living, but is DNA alive or not? How many processes are needed for life to exist? Can those all exist in one molecule? You need to answer some fundamental questions here.

Doug

[Doug1029]

Ambelamba is obsessively fixed on hating God and finding fault with anyone who doesn't.

Why do religionists call somebody names when they can't answer legitimate questions? Those who find religion incoherent or irrelevant are not god haters. How do you hate something if you don't even know if it exists?

I think that religionists hate people who ask difficult questions.

Doug

[Hideout]

Or alternatively, Instant Ramen mentality.

Let's face it. Evolution is no fun. It doesn't sound magical or mystical enough. In fact, the concept can easily negate the notion of metaphysical shortcut. How boring.

Yeah, one veteran Assistant Director who was in the business for decade told us that it's a human nature to seek for a shortcut. And one guy we heard about went that way and now he is a goner.

Phillip Seymour Hoffman, the victim of shortcut mentality, chose the easier path by mingling with wrong crowd and fueling his pre-existing addiction issue. And now he is gone.

To me, supernatural miracle is nothing but a shortcut. In fact, a very nasty kind of cheating and a very unfair advantage. Plenty of people get ahead with dirty tricks already. Why do you want to make it worse?

I was wondering why Americans are so infatuated with miracles and angels. Well, maybe the comfortable American lifestyle ended up fueling the urge to seek for the shortcut, like we rely on remote control while chomping on a whole pizza that goes straight to our gluteus.

Seriously? I view evolution as an incredible phenomenon. As close to 'magical' as one can get. Look back at what we came from, and what we've become. Tell me that is nothing short of cosmic poetry. In my mind, the more you understand about science, the more beautiful the world becomes. The fact that we are all, quite literally, the children of the stars, molded and crafted by our environment to perfectly (or as perfectly as natural selection can get close to) suite our world, is one of the most amazing and beautiful things I can imagine. Look back at how everything came to be, it's awe-inspiring. I think magic and miracles detract from the beauty and sophistication of the natural world.

[+Paranoid Android]

Why do religionists call somebody names when they can't answer legitimate questions? Those who find religion incoherent or irrelevant are not god haters. How do you hate something if you don't even know if it exists?

I think that religionists hate people who ask difficult questions.

Doug

Apparently you've not looked up on ambelamba's post history, including several times that he indicated hatred towards Christianity as a result of his upbringing. There was even a thread that HE started about people hating religion simply because they were ex-Christians themselves. Ambelamba even went so far as saying that people who weren't brought up in religious families don't have a hang-up on religion because they weren't indoctrinated as such. And while I disagree with both his premise and his conclusion, the fact is that Ambelamba is a "hater" of something he knows doesn't exist. I'll get the quotes if necessary, but I doubt he'll disagree with my conclusions here. Edited March 17, 2014 by Paranoid Android

[Doug1029]

Apparently you've not looked up on ambelamba's post history, including several times that he indicated hatred towards Christianity as a result of his upbringing. There was even a thread that HE started about people hating religion simply because they were ex-Christians themselves. Ambelamba even went so far as saying that people who weren't brought up in religious families don't have a hang-up on religion because they weren't indoctrinated as such. And while I disagree with both his premise and his conclusion, the fact is that Ambelamba is a "hater" of something he knows doesn't exist. I'll get the quotes if necessary, but I doubt he'll disagree with my conclusions here.

I can see why one would hate religion because of the way religionists use it as a weapon to belittle and denigrate their victims. That's sort of like hating guns because they are used to kill people. The NRA's campaign slogan: "Guns don't kill people; people kill people," would apply here, too. "Religion doesn't abuse people; people abuse people." Religion is a tool and all tools can be used for good or evil, depending on the proclivities of the person who picks it up.

So Ambelamba has identified himself as a god-hater. I see nothing wrong with that, other than hating something being a waste of time and effort - but then, here I am, posting stuff on UM - the pot calling the kettle black. I'm not sure about the statement that people who weren't brought up in a religious environment don't have a negative view of religion. I bet a could find some folks who were raised as atheists who have a negative view of religion - that would seem to topple his assumption.

Maybe an idea from the other thread: religion is not a mental illness; it is a cause of mental illness.

Doug

[J. K.]

I can see why one would hate religion because of the way religionists use it as a weapon to belittle and denigrate their victims. That's sort of like hating guns because they are used to kill people. The NRA's campaign slogan: "Guns don't kill people; people kill people," would apply here, too. "Religion doesn't abuse people; people abuse people." Religion is a tool and all tools can be used for good or evil, depending on the proclivities of the person who picks it up.

There is a key statement. You can call yourself a Christian, but not necessarily be a role model for Christianity. I'm sorry for the churchy language, but Jesus is to be glorified as the Lord of all. Any actions that draw attention to self rather than to Jesus are simply not Biblical.

[Doug1029]

There is a key statement. You can call yourself a Christian, but not necessarily be a role model for Christianity. I'm sorry for the churchy language, but Jesus is to be glorified as the Lord of all. Any actions that draw attention to self rather than to Jesus are simply not Biblical.

The US is trying to get gun control past the NRA. Maybe we should consider religion control?

Doug

[J. K.]

The US is trying to get gun control past the NRA. Maybe we should consider religion control?

Doug

It depends on your definition of religion. My own view of religion at large is that it is a set of man-made rules constructed to benefit those in leadership. According to Scripture: "27 Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world." James 1:27. True religion focuses on meeting the needs of others and protecting yourself from sinful activity. False religion focuses on control of others. I try to avoid using the word "religion" for that reason, because of the negative connotations it can carry.

Edited March 19, 2014 by J. K.