Bill Clinton, not surprised if aliens visit

[+OverSword]

All political and personal jokes aside, I agree with him about not being surprised if aliens were to visit our planet.

Humans have only been exploring outer space for a very short time, and look at what we are already capable of.

We are not only finding evidence of the existence of habitable planets out there around other stars, but are sending probes out to the other planets and moons in our own solar system in the search for life.

Our scientists are continuously striving to improve our understanding of how the universe operates and our abilities to explore newer and further away places.

Look at how far we've been able to advance in such a short time. My mother, as a child, had told her mom that she heard of new invention called television coming... My grandmother scoffed "Pictures, flying through the air? Ha!" ...That was a couple of generations ago... Think of what we will be capable of in 1,000 years! In 10,000 years!

And even 10,000 years is a drop in a bucket in comparison to the billions of years that have been available for life to evolve on other planets in other solar systems out there... Millions of other habitable planets in our galaxy alone, and then consider that there are billions of other galaxies out there... Ever see the Hubble Ultra Deep Field and realize how many galaxies are in that small area of the sky? Then think about that's in every area, all around us! It truly boggles one's mind.

Yes, there is the huge distance to cover with space travel, but consider what used to be a huge distance to travel a short time ago, we can now travel in seconds. With scientific study comes advancement, and it's only logical that in time, we will be able to traverse those huge distances with ease, just as alien life, that has been around for longer than us, might be able to do so right now.

While what you are saying sounds reasonable on the surface, it's not realistic. Finding a planet that would meet our gravitational requirements let alone our atmospheric requirements is pretty near impossible. The planets we discover that scientists refer to as 'earth-like' are not earthlike at all. I would wager there is no extra terrestrial body we can live on naked. Also, while life may be common throughout creation (which I don't doubt) intelligent space-faring life is rare in the extreme. The evolutionairy coincidences that allowed us to evolve were a one in a trillion shot. Other intelligent life is not only distant from us in space but also in time. the odds of meeting another intelligent race are so extreme they're not worth considering except in fantasy/sci-fi novels.

[Hugh]

Also, while life may be common throughout creation (which I don't doubt) intelligent space-faring life is rare in the extreme. The evolutionairy coincidences that allowed us to evolve were a one in a trillion shot. Other intelligent life is not only distant from us in space but also in time. the odds of meeting another intelligent race are so extreme they're not worth considering except in fantasy/sci-fi novels.

It's nice to see you agree that life may be common out there.

Consider a couple of other points...

Even though "intelligent space-faring life" may be "rare in the extreme", given time, that life would likely seek to populate other worlds with life would you agree?

Also, with enough scientific advancement, certain natural environmental aspects of other planets could be tweaked, to allow more of a chance of life to exist.

Also consider that life itself has a tremendous will to adapt, survive and evolve over time to find a way to continue to exist and grow, and if life is common out there, think of what intelligence has grown out there over billions of years of existence.

[+OverSword]

It's nice to see you agree that life may be common out there.

Consider a couple of other points...

Even though "intelligent space-faring life" may be "rare in the extreme", given time, that life would likely seek to populate other worlds with life would you agree?

Also, with enough scientific advancement, certain natural environmental aspects of other planets could be tweaked, to allow more of a chance of life to exist.

Also consider that life itself has a tremendous will to adapt, survive and evolve over time to find a way to continue to exist and grow, and if life is common out there, think of what intelligence has grown out there over billions of years of existence.

And by the time we meet them they will be extinct and we will be lucky to even find their fossils or vice-versa. Sorry not trying to be a buzz kill but over the years I've figured out we would have an easier time discovering the meaning of life than extra-terrestrial life. Edited April 4, 2014 by OverSword

[Hugh]

And by the time we meet them they will be extinct and we will be lucky to even find their fossils or vice-versa.

A sufficiently advanced form of life would find a way to keep on existing for a very long time.

Hopefully we will advance to that point as well.

Several highly advanced, space travelling life forms in the same neighbourhood would meet up with each other, given enough time.

Sorry not trying to be a buzz kill but over the years I've figured out we would have an easier time discovering the meaning of life than extra-terrestrial life.

The meaning of life is simple, to live, love, advance and grow.

ET's are out there, it's just a matter of time before we meet them imho.

[+OverSword]

We will have to agree to disagree.

My opinion about this is based on provable facts and verifiable statistics, such as how many different species do we know of that have ever existed? How many of them were intelligent civilisation builders. Statistcally most of this planets life it has had no intelligent life. Out of the 8 planets that we know of only one developed life more sophisticated than a microbe, keep following these provable and knowable things and you soon realize all else is wishful thinking and fantasy.

I had the same opinion as you did until I really started thinking it through.

edit to add I hope you're right and I'm wrong.

Edited April 4, 2014 by OverSword

[Hugh]

We will have to agree to disagree.

My opinion about this is based on provable facts and verifiable statistics, such as how many different species do we know of that have ever existed? How many of them were intelligent civilisation builders. Statistcally most of this planets life it has had no intelligent life. Out of the 8 planets that we know of only one developed life more sophisticated than a microbe, keep following these provable and knowable things and you soon realize all else is wishful thinking and fantasy.

Consider all of the species of life here on Earth alone that has an intelligence higher than that of a microbe.

When one looks at (quoting Carl Sagan here) the billions and billions of stars in our galaxy alone, and the billions and billions of galaxies out there, the odds are rather huge that intelligent, advanced life is out there,

Plus there seems to be this inherent nature that matter has, on a building-block level, to naturally combine in ways we're still learning, that foster the conditions needed for life to exist and grow. As is said in one of my favorite lines in Jurassic Park, "Life found a way!"

I had the same opinion as you did until I really started thinking it through.

Funny how the more I've thought about it over time the more I've thought the opposite.

edit to add I hope you're right and I'm wrong.

Me too.

[PersonFromPorlock]

Actually, I'm surprised that we aren't already ****-deep in Aliens: every solution to the Drake equation, no matter how few intelligent-life planets are presumed, results in a full universe. Or so I understand. The absence of Aliens may therefore be more significant than we think.

**** = 'knee', of course.

Edited April 4, 2014 by PersonFromPorlock

[Hugh]

every solution to the Drake equation, no matter how few intelligent-life planets are presumed, results in a full universe. Or so I understand. The absence of Aliens may therefore be more significant than we think.

Maybe they're protecting their "nest" from others that may be harmful to us.

[Collateral Damage]

We will have to agree to disagree.

My opinion about this is based on provable facts and verifiable statistics, such as how many different species do we know of that have ever existed? How many of them were intelligent civilisation builders. Statistcally most of this planets life it has had no intelligent life. Out of the 8 planets that we know of only one developed life more sophisticated than a microbe, keep following these provable and knowable things and you soon realize all else is wishful thinking and fantasy.

I had the same opinion as you did until I really started thinking it through.

edit to add I hope you're right and I'm wrong.

I think you're forgetting to take into account just how vast the universe actually is, especially when compared to how much the human species has really discovered, which is not much when considering how old the universe is. Stop trying to be so negative and realise that us as a species are extremely young, and yes you're right, the chances of intelligent life are extremely low, but if it has happened once, and our solar system being quite young, what makes you think or say it won't happen again, or hasn't already? Just imagine, there's so little we actually know.

[+OverSword]

I think you're forgetting to take into account just how vast the universe actually is, especially when compared to how much the human species has really discovered, which is not much when considering how old the universe is. Stop trying to be so negative and realise that us as a species are extremely young, and yes you're right, the chances of intelligent life are extremely low, but if it has happened once, and our solar system being quite young, what makes you think or say it won't happen again, or hasn't already? Just imagine, there's so little we actually know.

Iam taking into account how vast the universe is. That's part of the reason we will never meet another intelligent species. It only seems negative to you because the logic which brings me to my conclusions for some reason hurts your feelings apparently. Is the truth negative? I don't think so.

Remember, I'm not saying there are not, haven't been, or won't be other intelligent species. I'm saying that intelligence like humanities is rare in the extreme and is provable by the only real numbers we can bring to bare. Any counter arguments to mine are hypothetical only and therefore meaningless.

Edited April 4, 2014 by OverSword

[Thorvir]

Iam taking into account how vast the universe is. That's part of the reason we will never meet another intelligent species.

Never say never. As long as other intelligent species exist in the universe (at least in our own galaxy), they will meet up and interact.

Given enough time, there will be contact--you can save that quote and pull it out again someday.

My only concern is that it happens before the death of the universe, however that is suppose to occur and whenever it is supposed to occur, if it occurs.

[+OverSword]

Never say never. As long as other intelligent species exist in the universe (at least in our own galaxy), they will meet up and interact.

Given enough time, there will be contact--you can save that quote and pull it out again someday.

My only concern is that it happens before the death of the universe, however that is suppose to occur and whenever it is supposed to occur, if it occurs.

Ok let me adjust what I said:

I am taking into account the vastness of the univers. It's sheer size plus the apparent lack of intelligent species (indicated by what we know to be true vs. wishful speculation) makes the likelihood of us meeting another intelligent species so remote that it's a bit silly to believe it will happen or believe it will happen any time soon.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

While what you are saying sounds reasonable on the surface, it's not realistic. Finding a planet that would meet our gravitational requirements let alone our atmospheric requirements is pretty near impossible. The planets we discover that scientists refer to as 'earth-like' are not earthlike at all. I would wager there is no extra terrestrial body we can live on naked. Also, while life may be common throughout creation (which I don't doubt) intelligent space-faring life is rare in the extreme. The evolutionairy coincidences that allowed us to evolve were a one in a trillion shot. Other intelligent life is not only distant from us in space but also in time. the odds of meeting another intelligent race are so extreme they're not worth considering except in fantasy/sci-fi novels.

1. I recently posted two items in UM.

1) Scientists have recently found an exoplanet 1.1 times the size of earth, and is in "Goldilocks zone"

So much for gravity being a problem.

2) A nice article came out about a theory of our galaxy alone, having some 8.2 billion planets that exist in the "Goldilocks zone" - aka, earth-a-likes.

2. If that is true,

the number of galaxies in the U = 100 billion, or 10¹¹

the number of stars in a galaxy is 200 billion, or 2.0x10¹¹

The number of planets per star, 2.3 average.

the number of planets in the universe = 4.6x10²² - also, one trillion = 10¹²

one in 1 trillion of those planets is 4.6x10²² / 10¹²

with such constraints as you list (1 in 1 trillion), there are 4.6x10¹⁰ planets in the universe that

went through the one-in-one trillion experience that earth did, according to you, the poster.

that would be 46,000,000,000 planets. almost 50 billion planets that experienced the same thing

Also, our Milky Way galaxy has about 200 billion stars.

Clearly you should have one planet every five galaxies that experienced what earth did.

that's rare???

not so much

[Thorvir]

Ok let me adjust what I said:

I am taking into account the vastness of the univers. It's sheer size plus the apparent lack of intelligent species (indicated by what we know to be true vs. wishful speculation) makes the likelihood of us meeting another intelligent species so remote that it's a bit silly to believe it will happen or believe it will happen any time soon.

I can't agree. While the chance of meeting another species is remote, it can't be considered impossible. Where do you get the idea that there is a lack of intelligent species, by the way?

I can agree that space is big, and we are nigh-unlikely to meet another species from another galaxy--at least the more distant ones. But think about species here in the galaxy. Don't "limit" yourself to just trying to find some in the Universe, we've got plenty of real estate nearby to consider first.

[+OverSword]

1. I recently posted two items in UM.

1) Scientists have recently found an exoplanet 1.1 times the size of earth, and is in "Goldilocks zone"

So much for gravity being a problem.

2) A nice article came out about a theory of our galaxy alone, having some 8.2 billion planets that exist in the "Goldilocks zone" - aka, earth-a-likes.

2. If that is true,

the number of galaxies in the U = 100 billion, or 10¹¹

the number of stars in a galaxy is 200 billion, or 2.0x10¹¹

The number of planets per star, 2.3 average.

the number of planets in the universe = 4.6x10²² - also, one trillion = 10¹²

one in 1 trillion of those planets is 4.6x10²² / 10¹²

with such constraints as you list (1 in 1 trillion), there are 4.6x10¹⁰ planets in the universe that

went through the one-in-one trillion experience that earth did, according to you, the poster.

that would be 46,000,000,000 planets. almost 50 billion planets that experienced the same thing

Also, our Milky Way galaxy has about 200 billion stars.

Clearly you should have one planet every five galaxies that experienced what earth did.

that's rare???

not so much

Total speculation, not provable by what we know but only by what could be dependant on this that or the other thing therefore not really realistic. And what was the chemical composition of that supposed 1.1 times earth size in the so called goldilocks zone? Also the goldilock zone IMO a bit of a misnomer because venus is also within said zone and there is absolutely no life there it is an out of control greehouse effect so atmospheric make-up essential. and so far we only know for sure of one planet. out of how many hundreds of planets that we have discovered?

[+OverSword]

Where do you get the idea that there is a lack of intelligent species, by the way?

I get the idea based on what can be known and proved. How many species of life have there ever been that we know for a certainty? Billions? How many were intelligent? One. And evolution does not guarantee intelligence. Evolution provides for a species to evolve until it is (nearly) perfect for it's environment. Sharks perfect example. Sharks have not greatly changed in millions of years because they achieved near perfection without achieving intelligence. It is ego which drives humans to ignore the provable facts and decide that the intelligence we have developed is inevitable. It's not. It's provably very rare.

[Thorvir]

I get the idea based on what can be known and proved. How many species of life have there ever been that we know for a certainty? Billions? How many were intelligent? One. And evolution does not guarantee intelligence. Evolution provides for a species to evolve until it is (nearly) perfect for it's environment. Sharks perfect example. Sharks have not greatly changed in millions of years because they achieved near perfection without achieving intelligence. It is ego which drives humans to ignore the provable facts and decide that the intelligence we have developed is inevitable. It's not. It's provably very rare.

So, just your opinion then? Which is okay, everyone has an opinion. We all speculate as to what might happen someday.

Just remember to never say "never". Regardless of our speculation (yours and mine), we will never know what exactly will happen until it happens.

And thank you for the response.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Hida Akechi

[+OverSword]

So, just your opinion then? Which is okay, everyone has an opinion. We all speculate as to what might happen someday.

Just remember to never say "never". Regardless of our speculation (yours and mine), we will never know what exactly will happen until it happens.

And thank you for the response.

Yep. It's all just speculation. At some point in my ponderings I decided to only depend on what is known to use as a base line vs. what is wished as I realized that wishing waswhat I was really doing. I stil wish it I just no longer believe it. Edited April 4, 2014 by OverSword

[Myles]

Win for the skeptics for certain. The president of the USA asked for a presidential review of Area 51 and - NOTHING

[Merc14]

But...at least he apparently looked into Roswell..

She tried suing him for rape but the bimbo eruption squad, headed by Shrillary, got to her.

[Merc14]

All political and personal jokes aside, I agree with him about not being surprised if aliens were to visit our planet.

Humans have only been exploring outer space for a very short time, and look at what we are already capable of.

We are not only finding evidence of the existence of habitable planets out there around other stars, but are sending probes out to the other planets and moons in our own solar system in the search for life.

Our scientists are continuously striving to improve our understanding of how the universe operates and our abilities to explore newer and further away places.

Look at how far we've been able to advance in such a short time. My mother, as a child, had told her mom that she heard of new invention called television coming... My grandmother scoffed "Pictures, flying through the air? Ha!" ...That was a couple of generations ago... Think of what we will be capable of in 1,000 years! In 10,000 years!

And even 10,000 years is a drop in a bucket in comparison to the billions of years that have been available for life to evolve on other planets in other solar systems out there... Millions of other habitable planets in our galaxy alone, and then consider that there are billions of other galaxies out there... Ever see the Hubble Ultra Deep Field and realize how many galaxies are in that small area of the sky? Then think about that's in every area, all around us! It truly boggles one's mind.

Yes, there is the huge distance to cover with space travel, but consider what used to be a huge distance to travel a short time ago, we can now travel in seconds. With scientific study comes advancement, and it's only logical that in time, we will be able to traverse those huge distances with ease, just as alien life, that has been around for longer than us, might be able to do so right now.

Well said Hugh! I am in awe of the sheer volume of new discoveries being announced, seemingly daily. Higgs particle proved, Curiosity's amazing landing and discoveries, the very real possibility that we will find life on one of our solar system's moons. Black holes not only proved but at the center of every galaxy! This is mind blowing stuff and as you said, the pace of discovery will only increase, I just hope I don't get too old to keep up! The James Webb, if it works, will change everything IMHO. It is so radically different and powerful that even Hubble, amazing as it is, will be overshadowed.

I can't agree that some alien species will ever come visit but I'd like to think we will soon spread out from this planet. I am not saying it can't happen but we are a speck orbiting an "unremarkable little star" so it is hard to imagine anything out there even knowing we are here. I'd love to see the day we meet another species but we need to make our own miracles and I am all in with your wishes. I just can't fathom life not existing outside Sol's influence based on the massive number of planets that are now estimated to be in a Goldilocks orbit.

Edited April 5, 2014 by Merc14

[Hugh]

Thanks Merc14, well said too!

I hadn't heard of the James Webb ST, amazing to see the stuff we're coming up with for sure...

[Frank Merton]

Goldilocks orbit or not, there are good reasons but no proof to think life is common in the universe. I don't know that that is pertinent; the issue that bothers me is that if ET (not life but highly advanced technological civilization) is common, why don't we see any sign of it?

I figure when we get out there we will every now and then find a planet swarming with the local equivalent of bacteria, maybe one or two much more rarely with the local equivalent of amphibians and fish, but as an ET, we appear to be almost alone. Further, there are persuasive arguments as to why that might be the case having to do with the long periods undisturbed time a planet needs for this.

[Merc14]

Thanks Merc14, well said too!

I hadn't heard of the James Webb ST, amazing to see the stuff we're coming up with for sure...

Hubble is an amazing machine but the Webb should break many paradigms . NASA has to get it out there first and then see if it can operate in those extreme conditions. A lot of ifs but they landed Curiosity and it is running at 100% so I have faith again and no landing here.

Edited April 5, 2014 by Merc14

[Hugh]

Goldilocks orbit or not, there are good reasons but no proof to think life is common in the universe. I don't know that that is pertinent; the issue that bothers me is that if ET (not life but highly advanced technological civilization) is common, why don't we see any sign of it?

It's too far away for our current technology to see, not that we can't see things that are far away, but individual spaceships and civilizations on other planets are just too tiny to see...

Perhaps we will be able to analyze the atmospheres of exoplanets more effectively as time goes on, and be able to spot some signs of life in them...

http://www.space.com...ot-jupiter.html

Edited April 5, 2014 by Hugh