vimjams Posted November 5, 2004 #51 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Reese...I think you are taking things out of context here. Either that...or you have a complete lack of undestanding. Read the whole posts and not just the little words that you can just about understand. I'm not in contradiction Vimjams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vimjams Posted November 5, 2004 #52 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Erikl...This war is a conspiracy. It was planned long before you seem to realise or even care really. And by definition...Yes, Bush is a criminal...Not my words exactly...But the UN's And that goes for Tony Blair (equally) Vimjams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reese2 Posted November 5, 2004 #53 Share Posted November 5, 2004 How can anything you post be taken out of context? Aren't you completely clear with the things you write? If you meant something else by what you typed, by all means, show me the light. I wouldn't back pedal here, as it does appear you are doing now. You asked a question, and I showed you an example. Believe me, I read your posts, as I am sure everyone does, but you are unwilling to see how you appear to others'. You say many, many, inflamatory things, my example was but one of them... But, by all means, show me how I took your 'up front' comments out of context. Still hoping you have a great day, Bush free!! Reese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lottie Posted November 5, 2004 #54 Share Posted November 5, 2004 To criticise Bush for getting involved in what happens in the world now is strange. 9/11 was a wake up call to Bush and the Americans. Within their little insular world they had never experienced Terrorism as profound as this. They had been lucky upto then. The terrorists that devised 9/11 are the one's that started this war, they proclaimed loud and clear from where i am sitting, a war against America and its infrastructure and of course the people. You cannot expect a country to just take such a bold, hideous statement like that on the chin and not retaliate. If it had been the UK or any other country that had experienced this kind of terrorism on such a massive scale would of done the same. Whether it has been done in the right way however is another story... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reese2 Posted November 5, 2004 #55 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Lottie, That was a great post. Thanks.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lottie Posted November 5, 2004 #56 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Erikl...This war is a conspiracy. It was planned long before you seem to realise or even care really. And by definition...Yes, Bush is a criminal...Not my words exactly...But the UN's And that goes for Tony Blair (equally) Vimjams 343016[/snapback] LOL! The UN? Anything that the UN say has to be taken with some consideration that the UN is as corrupt as the politics in America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erikl Posted November 5, 2004 #57 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Erikl...This war is a conspiracy. It was planned long before you seem to realise or even care really. And by definition...Yes, Bush is a criminal...Not my words exactly...But the UN's And that goes for Tony Blair (equally) Vimjams 343016[/snapback] You see - here's the problem: if this was a conspiracy, then Bush's actions before 9/11 are unexplained. Either you suspect Bush fooled everyone when he said he don't know the names of world leaders and known world conflicts, which will make Bush super-smart or will cause you sound paranoid, or that he never planed any of this. I go for the second option. Bush was elected because of that indifference, and was harshly criticised by the same people who now criticise him for being a warmonger. As for Blair - his relations with Clinton are unexplained as well if you suspect he was part of such conspiracy . As for the UN - after this organization helped Hamas and Hezbollah to shoot missiles at Israeli citizens and kidnap IDF soldiers, and all the corruption about the oil-for-food program, I think it lost any right that it might had to call anyone a criminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erikl Posted November 5, 2004 #58 Share Posted November 5, 2004 (edited) Lottie - see my posts. I think this is one of those rare moments that we are in total agreement with eachother Edited November 5, 2004 by Erikl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lottie Posted November 5, 2004 #59 Share Posted November 5, 2004 I am in the middle when it comes to Bush, I think his social polices suck. However that aside I am wondering Vijams seeing as this seems to be about Bush and what has happened after 9/11... If it had been Great Britain that had been attacked on the major scale that NY was, say those three planes had come down in London? London being the most famous city in the world with all its history and financial districts, the House of Parliment, the Monarchy etc etc... Its a scary thing to think about London would of been wiped out! What would Britain have done?? Would we have sat back and taken it? No I don't think so. We are a proud nation, we are a nation of fighters, our grandparents and our parents fought for our rights to freedom and free speech. We would of done the same thing. We have done the same thing. Whether it is right or wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vimjams Posted November 5, 2004 #60 Share Posted November 5, 2004 No Reese...You are being inflammatory. I have written something you do not like and have very little argument against. I didn’t mean anything else other than what you have read. If there is a mistake being made about the meaning…Then that mistake is yours. I have not been (critical) of Bush because I believe he hasn’t shown that he ‘cares’ about the world…A claim, which Erikl attributed to something I said. The statement I made which is a complete opposite view, and the quote you used, goes to confirm this, and also demonstrates very clearly how grossly you have misunderstood. It was the United Nations secretary general who stated that the invasion of Iraq was indeed an “illegal war” …By definition that would make the protagonists criminals. I'm sorry you feel that...Instead of an ability to inform me with facts where I am wrong about my 'delusional' beliefs, you have chosen to adopt abuse as your method of debate. Vimjams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lottie Posted November 5, 2004 #61 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Lottie - see my posts. I think this is one of those rare moments that we are in total agreement with eachother 343026[/snapback] Whoa..this is too much...*Lottie goes of for a stiff drink* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twpdyp Posted November 5, 2004 #62 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Lottie Posted Today, 11:10 AM I am in the middle when it comes to Bush, I think his social polices suck. However that aside I am wondering Vijams seeing as this seems to be about Bush and what has happened after 9/11... If it had been Great Britain that had been attacked on the major scale that NY was, say those three planes had come down in London? London being the most famous city in the world with all its history and financial districts, the House of Parliment, the Monarchy etc etc... Its a scary thing to think about London would of been wiped out! What would Britain have done?? Would we have sat back and taken it? No I don't think so. We are a proud nation, we are a nation of fighters, our grandparents and our parents fought for our rights to freedom and free speech. We would of done the same thing. We have done the same thing. Whether it is right or wrong. Thank-You Lottie Finally a voice of realism. When you get kicked you don't go seeking approval before you retaliate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vimjams Posted November 5, 2004 #63 Share Posted November 5, 2004 This thread is about a proposed attack on North Korea...Something to which I feel would indeed be an act of a MADMAN! Somehow, and as usual, a few members tend to think they can alleviate their growing fears for the future by having a 'pop' at my opinions. It's not my fault that they have a problem with seeing two side of the same coin. vimjams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lottie Posted November 5, 2004 #64 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Just to add one more little thought... This whole situation is Media Driven as usual! I was just thinking about WWII. Great Britain sat back for a long while before we got involved. The goverment knew what was happening over in Germany but because of the Media we did nothing about it. It was only until Churchhill decided enough was enough that finally we went in and even then we were not prepared at all! Thousands of our British soldiers lost their lives because we were not ready. In the meantime Millions of people over there were losing their lives and of course Churchhill got voted out only to be voted in again. Reminds me of some situations in the present time... The Media have alot to answer for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twpdyp Posted November 5, 2004 #65 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Lottie Sounds like you have had a life altering experience, the tone of your posts seems to have changed in someway. Korea is a completely different situation when compared to Iraq. Korea will not use those nukes because they fear China, China doesn't want Korea to use nukes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erikl Posted November 5, 2004 #66 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Lottie, this is getting freakishly weird... ... once again I agree with you completely - the media do have a lot to answer for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lottie Posted November 5, 2004 #67 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Lottie Sounds like you have had a life altering experience, the tone of your posts seems to have changed in someway. Korea is a completely different situation when compared to Iraq. Korea will not use those nukes because they fear China, China doesn't want Korea to use nukes. 343052[/snapback] No, no life altering experience. If you look way back through my other posts you will see the same thing when it comes to the U.S and 9/11 and Iraq and the politics in America. I am in the middle when it comes to what is going on thats all. As i have said I am in the middle when it comes to Bush. I believe that he had every right to make a stand, any country would have done the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vimjams Posted November 5, 2004 #68 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Lottie…If three jets were to crash down onto various parts of the UK killing numerous people as happened in America, I’d want to know who did it and I would want those individuals punished. My feelings about this are not any different because it happened in the USA…I mean, The slaughter of those people in Spain wasn’t any less shocking…I feel just as angry that human beings can feel justified in doing this. It doesn’t matter where these crimes are committed, whatever nationality…I absolutely loathe those responsible for this carnage and pain. And I do not feel any less upset and angry when I see dead civilians lying in the streets of Iraq…Just (shame) knowing that it is our side doing the killing. And knowing that the people responsible for this death and destruction are our elected leaders…And that the voters that put them there (in office) are behaving just as cold blooded. Expressing opinions and making accusations is supposed to be what GWB is defending right…I mean, if there is no truth in any of them then what’s the problem? Vimjams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twpdyp Posted November 5, 2004 #69 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Lottie Posted Today, 11:47 AM QUOTE(twpdyp @ Nov 5 2004, 03:36 PM) Lottie Sounds like you have had a life altering experience, the tone of your posts seems to have changed in someway. Korea is a completely different situation when compared to Iraq. Korea will not use those nukes because they fear China, China doesn't want Korea to use nukes. No, no life altering experience. If you look way back through my other posts you will see the same thing when it comes to the U.S and 9/11 and Iraq and the politics in America. I am in the middle when it comes to what is going on thats all. As i have said I am in the middle when it comes to Bush. I believe that he had every right to make a stand, any country would have done the same. I did look. You are correct, and I stand corrected you definatly stand in the middle of the road. Look out for the traffic,LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nxt2Hvn Posted November 5, 2004 #70 Share Posted November 5, 2004 As I have said before.. I agree that the Media is bad for making things more dramatic than what is truth. I think that the media is partly resonsible for dividing the Country (US) and dividing the world... it seems they only want to broadcast negativity and I would like to the Media to have less access to what is going on in the world. And this is coming from someone who works in the newspaper industry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celumnaz Posted November 5, 2004 #71 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Lottie…If three jets were to crash down onto various parts of the UK killing numerous people as happened in America, I’d want to know who did it and I would want those individuals punished. What about the people that financed the people that did it? You know, payed their way to do the deed? What about the ones that celebrated as they watched your family die? What about the ones that say "That was great! Now, lets figure out an even better attack!" The ones who actually did it, are dead. It's the ones that egg it on, and plan it, and fund it, and support it you need to kill. In my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lottie Posted November 5, 2004 #72 Share Posted November 5, 2004 (edited) And I do not feel any less upset and angry when I see dead civilians lying in the streets of Iraq…Just (shame) knowing that it is our side doing the killing. And knowing that the people responsible for this death and destruction are our elected leaders…And that the voters that put them there (in office) are behaving just as cold blooded. Expressing opinions and making accusations is supposed to be what GWB is defending right…I mean, if there is no truth in any of them then what’s the problem? I totally understand where you are coming from. It is incredibly upsetting that civilians are losing their lives on the streets of Iraq and to be honest I think that along the way the U.S and Great Britain have made several blunders within their plans of attack when it came to going into Iraq. However you should look at it like this...If it wasn't Tony Blair and George Bush who are our elected leaders ... it would of been someone else. And regardless of who else it could of been Great Britain and the U.S would still have done the same thing...there would still be a war going on and there would still be deaths. Regardless of whether Bush had been President when 9/11 happened it would have happened anyway, it was an attack on the countries infrastructure. For example, for all that John Kerry said he would do regarding the War in Iraq, the war on terrorism, I bet that had he been elected nothing would have changed at all. These politicians have a habit of bending the truth to how they feel the public will react. Edited November 5, 2004 by Lottie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lottie Posted November 5, 2004 #73 Share Posted November 5, 2004 (edited) And I do not feel any less upset and angry when I see dead civilians lying in the streets of Iraq…Just (shame) knowing that it is our side doing the killing. And knowing that the people responsible for this death and destruction are our elected leaders…And that the voters that put them there (in office) are behaving just as cold blooded. Expressing opinions and making accusations is supposed to be what GWB is defending right…I mean, if there is no truth in any of them then what’s the problem? One more thing... With regards to what I said earlier about if it had been London instead of NY. Why isn't it that London, the UK has not been attacked, the fact that we have several known fantatical leaders in our country right now and we still have not been attacked?? My answer to that is this. Because we will not put up with threats and terrorism. We stood up to these people. Like we would of done any other time in the same situation. Our country maybe small but as I said before we are a proud nation, a nation of fighters and we are strong when it comes to our countries national security and defence. America is now doing the same. Regardless of whether or not Iraq had any involvement with Al-Quaeda and I believe that they did have some involvement. But we have taken out an evil, dispicable dictator who was like Hitler, who was like Stalin. Why did we not do this earlier? Because you cannot just go into a country and take out its leader for no reason. Regardless of whether we have taken out the terrorists and we haven't, they are in their little groups all over the world, we have freed Iraq from its terrible dictatorship. And yet the MEDIA never seem to write about that do they? Yet again the Media are as corrupt as any politicain any goverment. Whether people like it or not we are allies with the U.S and vice versa. We need eachother. God bless Great Britain! I have suddenly come over all patriotic...need to lie down! Edited November 5, 2004 by Lottie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twpdyp Posted November 5, 2004 #74 Share Posted November 5, 2004 God Bless Great Britain and God Bless The United States of America. Well said Lottie, now lay down and compose yourself before you make any other confessions and scare the rest of us to death..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lottie Posted November 5, 2004 #75 Share Posted November 5, 2004 (edited) God Bless Great Britain and God Bless The United States of America. Well said Lottie, now lay down and compose yourself before you make any other confessions and scare the rest of us to death..... 343097[/snapback] Its nothing that I haven't said before...just suddenly after a long time I feel proud to be a Brit only because I have been thinking about the fact we are a small Island and yet we are an incredibly strong country....but the patrioism won't last for long...this country sucks too...another story Edited November 5, 2004 by Lottie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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