Operation Paperclip

[LucidElement]

Imo most markant about this is the secrecy and deception of the public, in a so called champion of democracy.

But what has changed?

Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfawitz and consorts are also still walking free after lying to install a war and committing war crimes with false pretexts.

ridiculous comment. None of those men no matter how you perceive them contributed to deliberately mass murdered millions of innocent people. I dont even want to get on that topic. . Lol especially when you try and target conservatives.. how about the guy in the white house now, for war crimes. (Benghazi he will go down for and maybe this IRS scandal is lois lerner turns over the evidence) AGAIN, please lets not get into this... these nazi scientitsts created chemical weapons and were part of the weapons program that they knew would kill innocent people. They even walked around as the slave laborer (jews) would put these rockets together.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Did any scientists end up working for the USSR I wonder?

There's a line in "Ice Station Zebra" where "Mister Smith" (Patrick McGoohan) snarked about a camera being made by "our captured German scientists, in a rocket made by your captured German scientists not falling into the hands of their captured German scientists".

Basically sums the situation up for me. Everyone was involved.

[Peter B]

There's a line in "Ice Station Zebra" where "Mister Smith" (Patrick McGoohan) snarked about a camera being made by "our captured German scientists, in a rocket made by your captured German scientists not falling into the hands of their captured German scientists".

Basically sums the situation up for me. Everyone was involved.

There's a large slice of truth to the statement, but it's also important not to automatically assign the blame equally. Yes, both the USSR and USA scooped up what they could of German technology in the aftermath of World War Two. But quite a few of the scientists involved made their own decisions, and the attitudes of the Americans at least (and possibly the Soviets too) were hardly all the same.

In the case of the German rocket scientists, von Braun made a very conscious decision to try to surrender to the Americans, and tried to convince as many of his colleagues as possible to do the same. His attitude was that only the Americans had both the resources to allow him to build rockets and the sense of freedom to be willing to let him do what he wanted.

As for the Americans, it's important to understand that not all Americans were happy to use von Braun and his colleagues. Memories of the war were fresh and many Americans were angry at the idea of using the Germans instead of putting them on trial. As it happened von Braun's services remained largely unused for something like a decade after the war, during which time the media continued to make noises about his past. It was only as the Space Race began, and with the Cold War in full swing, that the American government got serious about using the skills of von Braun and his colleagues.

[toast]

Ahhhh, I disagree. Look at the circumstances.The USSR lost millions to the Germans, and the US only fought the Germans

because the Germany declared war on the US because the US had declared war on Japan, after Pearl Harbor. Surely, the

Soviets were more highly energized to get into Germany and they were in there first and foremost, with the most troops.

Correct facts but as I said the US got the better scientists like WvB and his inner circle. I will not comment the vita of WvB here

but if he would not have been "hired" be the US, the US space program did not had done that great and fast steps that it did.

Stalin had told the General in charge of the invasion,

"If you don't come home with Hitler, you come home to your death",or some such encouraging words.

Yes and that is giving an additional picture of the bad and based on negative pressure management style of Stalin. I do not

think that WvB and mates would had have such good results they produced in the US, if they were captured by the Soviets.

In addition, lost of lives during test missions was not an issue for Stalin, other than in the US where safety for the astronauts

was mandatory.

Ya know, the Soviets were *so* p!ssed at the Germans,

that it was common for German soldiers to beg US troops to take them captive, as opposed to being taken captive by the Soviets.

Yeah I`m aware of the situation those days in Germany as my mom told me about. All pll in that area were feared about that the

Soviets will occupy the village but US troups did. My mon was at an age of 5 after the war and some day she was playing in the

garden when a jeep with 4 US soldiers stopped at the house. One guy, a black one and 1,9meters tall, came to the garden door

and said hello to my mom. As this was the first time she saw a black guy ever, she totally freaked out and cryed for her mom.

But all went fine and as she was a nice little sweety these days (ok, she still is) she became a kind of mascot of the squad so

she had her weekly drive arounds in a willys-overland and food for the family wasn`t an issue anymore.

[Van Gorp]

ridiculous comment. None of those men no matter how you perceive them contributed to deliberately mass murdered millions of innocent people. I dont even want to get on that topic. . Lol especially when you try and target conservatives.. how about the guy in the white house now, for war crimes. (Benghazi he will go down for and maybe this IRS scandal is lois lerner turns over the evidence) AGAIN, please lets not get into this... these nazi scientitsts created chemical weapons and were part of the weapons program that they knew would kill innocent people. They even walked around as the slave laborer (jews) would put these rockets together.

I just gave my comment like it was asked.

You think it is a ridiculous comment? That's not very nice to say, but everyone his own style :-)

I don't think previous comment wasn't clear, but glad you give me the opportunity to repeat it:

the deception of the public is for me highly relevant in this case (not the appreciation of the scientists or what they did in Germany/VS).

American people were told the nation was fighting Nazi regime, behind their back they took them into the country :-)

The example of names mentionned just happened to be ready at stage for a more recent deception.

You don't have to take it political if you don't really want to.

[PersonFromPorlock]

It's safe to say that the Germans, at least the players, behaved badly when they had the chance during the War. And not all of the Allies were models of virtue, either. But next year the War will have been over for 70 years and it may be time to let the dead bury the dead.

Edited April 11, 2014 by PersonFromPorlock

[Rafterman]

It is what it is. Their actions on behalf of the US did not forgive them of their crimes, but they did a lot of good through their work.