World 'needs Plan B' on climate - UN

[bmk1245]

[...]

1. A gene from one species introduced into another one could render the second one poisonous to people with a food allergy. This actually happened when a peanut gene was introduced to tomatoes. Starlink showed that we can't contain transgenic crops once they are released, so we can't release this type of crop. Better not to produce it at all.

[...]

I still can't find info about that...

[...]

2. A gene for resistance to a particular herbicide (like Roundup) could be transferred to a weed species, rendering it resistant to the herbicide.[...]

Bad news for farmers who will have to find other ways to fight weed (other crop varieties, other herbicides), for environment - none.

[...] The nightmare scenario is bt-resistant ragweed.

[...]

Doesn't make any sense, cause ragweed don't care about Bt proteins. If ragweed will start to produce somehow (I don't see the ways it can) Bt proteins that are harmful for insects who are feeding on ragweed - bad news for those insects, until they (particular insects) develop resistance to particular Bt protein. Again, problems for farmers, for environment - close to none.

[bmk1245]

It should be noted that in California those saline soils were made that way by irrigation. Irrigation water dissolves salt, moves it to the surface and evaporates leaving the salt behind in exactly the place you don't want it. If you have a subsurface drainage system in place, you can wash the salt out of the soil with large amounts of water. But water costs money and cleaning up a salt-laden field is expensive. The salt-poisoned areas are now being used mostly for dairy farming. This transition happened over the last 50 years.

[...]

As far as I've heard salinity becomes problem in many places worldwide. Thats were salt resistance (salt being "collected" in stems/leaves/roots and not in fruits) is quite handy - we can use "salt infected" biomaterial as biofuel (of course, it poses other problems).

[...]

In Booneville, Arkansas is a research facility dedicated to agroforestry - the growing of crops and forests at the same time. It's about getting two uses out of the land. The "hippy garden" is going industrial. Some ideas developed there:

1. Need a windbreak? For one row, plant a species that produces a fruit - like plums. As it turned out, that idea worked better in Colorado than in Arkansas and the American plum worked better than the eastern plum, but there is now a small-scale plum industry in eastern Colorado using fruit grown in windbreaks.

2. Grazing pine understories with goats. Milk and wood production on the same ground. And goats hold down the green briers and kudsu - goats LOVE kudsu.

The "hippy farm" has its place.

Doug

That aren't hippy farms, thats rational use of resources. Hippy garden is worthless use of land/resources - lawns (where water is scarce), flowers, exotic fruits (requiring helluva input) etc.

[Doug1029]

I still can't find info about that...

There's an article about that in the upcoming edition of "Scientific American." Also, the Union of Concerned Scientists has released an article on transgenic crops that mentions this.

Bad news for farmers who will have to find other ways to fight weed (other crop varieties, other herbicides), for environment - none.

Crop rotation is now done mostly for weed control, rather than soil fertility. Grow a broadleaved crop for several years while using a grassicide; then switch to a grass crop and use a broad-leaf herbicide. Then switch back again. And so on.

Doesn't make any sense, cause ragweed don't care about Bt proteins. If ragweed will start to produce somehow (I don't see the ways it can) Bt proteins that are harmful for insects who are feeding on ragweed - bad news for those insects, until they (particular insects) develop resistance to particular Bt protein. Again, problems for farmers, for environment - close to none.

Like I said, this is a hypothetical problem and has not been observed in the real worl, at least, not yet. Ragweed is an early-successional plant and is pushed out of the stand within a few years by other more-competitve plants. Bt-resistance could tilt the balance in ragweed's favor, but the real control on it is competition for light. A bt gene won't affect that.

Doug

[Doug1029]

As far as I've heard salinity becomes problem in many places worldwide. Thats were salt resistance (salt being "collected" in stems/leaves/roots and not in fruits) is quite handy - we can use "salt infected" biomaterial as biofuel (of course, it poses other problems).

Many trees handle the salt problem by sequestering salt in the outer parts of leaves and needles and sealing it off. When the leaf drops, it carries salt away from the plant, leaving the tree/bush in a slightly-less-salty environment. Dying needle tips are a symptom of salt poisoning in pines.

That aren't hippy farms, thats rational use of resources. Hippy garden is worthless use of land/resources - lawns (where water is scarce), flowers, exotic fruits (requiring helluva input) etc.

Maybe we have different definitions of "hippy garden." What I'm talking about is scaling up the "hippy garden" to industrial/commercial levels. There's a tomatoe farmer about ten miles from here who produces organic tomatoes. He does it using all the traditional organic methods of the "hippy garden." But his "hippy garden" covers 60 acres. He's making it work; more power to him.

Doug

[bmk1245]

There's an article about that in the upcoming edition of "Scientific American." Also, the Union of Concerned Scientists has released an article on transgenic crops that mentions this.

[...]

Can you post link?

BTW, I'm bit swayed away from UCS, they talk more off the passion than actual scientific results, IMHO.

[...]

Crop rotation is now done mostly for weed control, rather than soil fertility. Grow a broadleaved crop for several years while using a grassicide; then switch to a grass crop and use a broad-leaf herbicide. Then switch back again. And so on.

[...]

What it means for farmer who grows corn only?

[...]

Like I said, this is a hypothetical problem and has not been observed in the real worl, at least, not yet. Ragweed is an early-successional plant and is pushed out of the stand within a few years by other more-competitve plants. Bt-resistance could tilt the balance in ragweed's favor, but the real control on it is competition for light. A bt gene won't affect that.

Doug

If I pull any ragweed (with my bare hands) from my crop field, whats it for ragweed? No ragweed in my field - all "ragweeds are dead". Whats the difference how you exterminate weed in crop area?

[bmk1245]

Many trees handle the salt problem by sequestering salt in the outer parts of leaves and needles and sealing it off. When the leaf drops, it carries salt away from the plant, leaving the tree/bush in a slightly-less-salty environment. Dying needle tips are a symptom of salt poisoning in pines.

[...]

And what happens when salt level rises above threshold? Trees die.

[...]

Maybe we have different definitions of "hippy garden." What I'm talking about is scaling up the "hippy garden" to industrial/commercial levels. There's a tomatoe farmer about ten miles from here who produces organic tomatoes. He does it using all the traditional organic methods of the "hippy garden." But his "hippy garden" covers 60 acres. He's making it work; more power to him.

Doug

Question is - how much it costs. Ok, is he looking after his tomatoe plantation by himself, or, is he using whole bunch of wetbacks cheap labor?

[regeneratia]

That approach seems to be the one we're taking. Do nothing and hope for the best. The sea is rising - move farther inland. The world's farms are less able to grow food - eat less. The problem is that some folks barely have enough to eat now and if they have to get by on less, they won't get by at all.

The solution is to do more with less. We can harness wind energy - that's an adaptation. Solar power is making strides - that's an adaptation. Maybe we can do something with nuclear fusion - that's an adaptation. We can sequester carbon in farmer's fields - that's an adaptation.

One way or another, we are going to adapt. Whether or not we like it, is another question.

Doug

What about scalar energy devices?

[Guest]

What about scalar energy devices?

Can you show us a working example ?

Br Cornelius

[regeneratia]

Can you show us a working example ?

Br Cornelius

I am postive that you are able to locate them for yourself. Doing a search for yourself puts the situation at your advantage for you get to pick the source, instead of running that source thru my own personal filter. If you have to need to know, a personal search will fill that need.

But you can begin here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalar_field_theory

Edited April 19, 2014 by regeneratia

[bmk1245]

I am postive that you are able to locate them for yourself. Doing a search for yourself puts the situation at your advantage for you get to pick the source, instead of running that source thru my own personal filter. If you have to need to know, a personal search will fill that need.

But you can begin here:

http://en.wikipedia....ar_field_theory

Ehmmm... And where is working example?

[regeneratia]

Can you show us a working example ?

Br Cornelius

I also suspect that to find anything adequate regarding harnessing scalar energy, you will also need to know how to read Russian. I cannot do that. Can you? At this point, I assume we, the sheeple, are not supposed to know about this type of energy, for it would totally disrupt energy greed and capitalism in this country (USA).

Ehmmm... And where is working example?

los Alamos and Russia and probably somewhere in Utah, and NY state and ....

I cannot even find anything regarding Alexander Golod in Wikipedia. But he is a valid Russian scientist.

As for my knowledge base, I am happy with Susan Joy Rennison, Ibrihim Karim, And Judy Jacka. But I am sure you will not be happy with these people because you need to be fed scientific dogma and I don't. My knowledge diet isn't quite as limited as you may think is required.

Edited April 19, 2014 by regeneratia

[regeneratia]

Energy is free. It should be free.

Ehmmm... And where is working example?

Some people have died because they had working examples.

[bmk1245]

[...]los Alamos and Russia and probably somewhere in Utah, and NY state and ....

I cannot even find anything regarding Alexander Golod in Wikipedia. But he is a valid Russian scientist.

[...]

You mean half witted engineer who built "energy" pyramids? Please, spare me...

[...]

As for my knowledge base, I am happy with Susan Joy Rennison, Ibrihim Karim, And Judy Jacka. But I am sure you will not be happy with these people because you need to be fed scientific dogma and I don't. My knowledge diet isn't quite as limited as you may think is required.

*Quadruple facepalm*

You bring brain dead morons into the discussion?!

*sigh*

Again, where is WORKING example?!

[bmk1245]

Energy is free. It should be free.

Some people have died because they had working examples.

Free is only cheese in the trap. And who those "free energy people" were? Hmmm... Bunch of those - T.Bearden, A.Rossi, and other crackpots - are still alive...

[regeneratia]

You mean half witted engineer who built "energy" pyramids? Please, spare me...

*Quadruple facepalm*

You bring brain dead morons into the discussion?!

*sigh*

Again, where is WORKING example?!

I seriously doubt he is half-witted. However, I AM sure you want me to think he is half-witted. Just another perceptions control tactic I am by now seriously immune to.

Too bad you are so limited in thinking. Or if you are not, too bad you are wanting us to be so limited in thinking. Let me enlighten you: you can no longer tell us what we are to think and believe. That has been effectively removed from your capabilities.

Dissing someone is no longer a good tactic for discussion. We all know that it is a perception control strategy.

Edited April 19, 2014 by regeneratia

[regeneratia]

Free is only cheese in the trap. And who those "free energy people" were? Hmmm... Bunch of those - T.Bearden, A.Rossi, and other crackpots - are still alive...

Look it up, dude. You are here to slam others, (mostly likely a direct result of either being paid to do it or via chemical substances' effect on the amygdala).

I am here to entice people to be curious.

Energy should and will be free. I will not stop pushing it at the local, state and national level until it is. Every household should have it's own inexpensive energy plant and the ability to use it seconds from the need to have it. This IS a POSSIBLE dream. Probable too.

Edited April 19, 2014 by regeneratia

[regeneratia]

I get emailings from free energy people who are themselves creating free energy devices. I have the specs, to store for later use. Naming them would certainly lead to their demise. Not going to go it.

I wrote about Michael Ruppert not long ago on a forum thread, and now he is dead. Hmmmm!

Edited April 19, 2014 by regeneratia

[bmk1245]

Look it up, dude. You are here to slam others, (mostly likely a direct result of either being paid to do it or via chemical substances' effect on the amygdala).[...]

Honestly, chemical substances (red wine) help to not slam laptop after reading bs you are posting.

[...]

I am here to entice people to be curious.

[...]

Curious?! About woowoo'ish "info"?

[...]

Energy should and will be free. I will not stop pushing it at the local, state and national level until it is. Every household should have it's own inexpensive energy plant and the ability to use it seconds from the need to have it. This IS a POSSIBLE dream. Probable too.

Definitely you are using one (free energy gadget). Can you share schematics?

I get emailings from free energy people who are themselves creating free energy devices. I have the specs, to store for later use. Naming them would certainly lead to their demise. Not going to go it.

[...]

Typical. "I have specs, but I won't show you".

[...]

I wrote about Michael Ruppert not long ago on a forum thread, and now he is dead. Hmmmm!

Don't know what ivory tower you live in, but - that must be news for you - people (all) tend to die. Now, and then, and in the future.

[Doug1029]

And what happens when salt level rises above threshold? Trees die.

True. The method only works so long. In the desert near Cortez, Colorado, natural pinyon stands (those that survived the pinyon die-off) have been using this tactic since forever. But, as you say, there are some places where the soil is just too salty.

Question is - how much it costs. Ok, is he looking after his tomatoe plantation by himself, or, is he using whole bunch of wetbacks cheap labor?

He, his wife and a small army of tractors, cultivators and other equipment gets the job done. His tomatoes are planted in elevated rows to make management easier. He weeds by hand, but can do it while seated on a small tractor, throwing the weeds onto a trailer and composting them.

Doug

[Doug1029]

What about scalar energy devices?

There's no such thing as a free lunch - or free energy. No matter what, the materials needed for any device you might think of still cost money. But there are some fairly reasonable forms. Wind energy is down to seven cents per kilowatt-hour, for example. And if you're a do-it-yourslef type, you can make passive soalr heaters that keep your house warm in the winter - you can call it free, if you don't count the cost of materials. There's always a start-up cost that has to be amortized.

Doug

[Guest]

I am postive that you are able to locate them for yourself. Doing a search for yourself puts the situation at your advantage for you get to pick the source, instead of running that source thru my own personal filter. If you have to need to know, a personal search will fill that need.

But you can begin here:

http://en.wikipedia....ar_field_theory

I asked for a working example of a functional energy source based upon scalar technology - preferably one in commercial production that I could hook my fridge up to.

Br Cornelius

[Guest]

Doug, just built a space heating rocket stove which should heat my flat with a quarter of the wood of a conventional stove.

Also going to install one of those wall passive solar heaters - will cost nothing since I have a salvaged double glazed unit and some nice tin-iron for the collector surface.

Nearly completed my own house scale biogas plant - but have relatively low expectations for this because the ambient hovers around 10 degrees here year round, which is very marginal for effective biogas production.

Br Cornelius

[regeneratia]

There's no such thing as a free lunch - or free energy. No matter what, the materials needed for any device you might think of still cost money. But there are some fairly reasonable forms. Wind energy is down to seven cents per kilowatt-hour, for example. And if you're a do-it-yourslef type, you can make passive soalr heaters that keep your house warm in the winter - you can call it free, if you don't count the cost of materials. There's always a start-up cost that has to be amortized.

Doug

I have passive solar in this house (minus the black floor) with well over 100 gallons of water sitting just absorbing the heat, ... and a wood-burning stove, along with a hot-water heater on demand. There have been years, tho a ways back, where I turned off the gas just because I didn't really need it thru the summer, since we set up a solar water-heating device and I don't like to bake in the summer.

Edited April 19, 2014 by regeneratia

[regeneratia]

I asked for a working example of a functional energy source based upon scalar technology - preferably one in commercial production that I could hook my fridge up to.

Br Cornelius

Will IM them, those that I might know of. But I suggest you ask the military. They will certainly know more.

In fact, just write to the military or investigate for yourself.

Edited April 19, 2014 by regeneratia

[Guest]

Will IM them, those that I might know of. But I suggest you ask the military. They will certainly know more.

In fact, just write to the military or investigate for yourself.

You have nothing practical to offer me so it really isn't worth discussing further.

I personally don't believe that such a thing exists in a functional form at the moment. I have at various times tracked the whole free energy field and have seen people repeatedly make claims which they failed to deliver on and generally ripped people off along the way. Until someone brings one to the commercial market I will not be paying any more attention to any more free energy device claims.

Br Cornelius