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Republicans block 'Paycheck Fairness Act'

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Mantis914

What I'd like to know is how this is going to be enforced and how are people comparing salaries anyway? I thought that was a confidential matter between HR and the employee unless they are willingly sharing the information then they get what they deserve. This just all looks like a lot of BS propaganda...

Title VII back in 1964 for those of you living in 2014 states:

Sex Discrimination & Work Situations

The law forbids discrimination when it comes to any aspect of employment, including hiring, firing, pay, job assignments, promotions, layoff, training, fringe benefits, and any other term or condition of employment.

So again, this is a matter of enforcement of laws that are all ready in place. All of you defending this bill fell right into more government infringements to cause more problems, this time in the workplace...

For those that have the time, here's the link from the gov's own website, check it out, it's an interesting read:

http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/sex.cfm

Edited by Mantis914
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aztek

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aztek

The female CEO of Archie Comics accused by five employees of being sexually inappropriate said she can’t possibly be guilty of harassment, since the people lodging complaints against her are all white men.

Nancy Silberkleit’s lawyer argues that a gender discrimination lawsuit filed against her earlier this year by a group of employees should be thrown out because white males aren’t members of “a protected class,” the New YorkDaily News reported.

Read more: http://www.washingto.../#ixzz2ys2bZbk0

Edited by aztek
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Jeremiah65

All I know is the guys that are arguing with the ladies on this will never win so...everyone enjoy venting and being able to state your point of view cause there is no winning this argument.

I personally prefer everything be done on merit and the GOV stay out of business as much as possible...but..some WANT the GOV involved for their own personal reason...reasons that all the arguing are not going to influence.

I do not see the GOV as a great benevolent entity...I see it as something much uglier and darker...but for some folks, they will never see they underbelly of the beast because they happen to want to use that beast at this moment in time. Give them time though...at some future time they will regret inviting the monster into their midsts...

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lisaloveslilia

PLEASE...from this point forward...be someone in the U.S....and make some sense of this! Everyone else is pretty much yammering for no reason!

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lisaloveslilia

there's always that "out"! That people always gravitate towards! That I gravitate towards...our salary is CONFIDENTIAL! But...hey! Whatdya know! My buddy, my counterpart came forward and revealed what he makes to ME! And NOW...I can do nothing more than debate the issue with you people! Because actually getting it squared away at my job means that I could get HIM fired for revealing his salary to me. So where do I go from here? He tells me what he makes (yet its kind of against the rules to do so within our company)... If salary equality was super equal between us boys n girls- I wouldn't have my panties in a bunch right now! So...I go to "the powers that be" and say...."Hey, he make more than me, yada yada" They fire him for being so open and I get nowhere...except on the "who are we gonna target next" list.

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Jeremiah65

I am...

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lisaloveslilia

if "THE BEAST" wants to address and ratify women's social issues, at this time, I'm all for it! Give me my legs!! What the government does after that I'll handle accordingly!

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aztek

i doubt that very much. if you can't get what you think you deserve now, and waiting for someone (gvmnt) to give you something, after which you think your life will be better (you'll start getting paid more), it wont.

keep in mind discrimination laws already exist.

no one will give you a red cent uinless you ask, go to your boss and tell him you want more money, (just more money since you deserve it, no need to bring up someone salary, (btw if you worked for me, and you came and started to demand higher pay because someone else makes more, i'd fire you on the spot, not him, you. however, if you just asked for raise, i would not fire you even if i didn't give you raise, or i might give you that rase, if you really deserve it.)

if you can't do it now, nothing will change for you, regardless of laws passed, as if gvmnt ever made anyones life easier anyway, lol. you wanna change somethinmg start with yourself, you don't have to change entire world, change yourself, and your life will be better.

take example from females that acomplished a lot, by doing something themselves, not waiting for laws that already exist.

Edited by aztek

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Merc14

From Real CLear Politucs:

Paycheck Fairness Act: Not good for paychecks or fairness

By Hadley Heath

http://redalertpolitics.com/2014/04/07/paycheck-fairness-act-good-paychecks-fairness/

This week the Senate is considering the Paycheck Fairness Act, a bill that would amend the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 to expand “remedies” to sex-based wage discrimination.

In other words, the legislation would allow women to sue for unlimited compensatory and punitive damages, and it would promote class-action lawsuits by requiring workers to opt out, rather than to opt in. This would result in expanded legal liability for employers, smaller paychecks and less fairness for women and men.

Like many ideas from the Left, this legislation is a solution in search of a problem. It would certainly be wrong to suggest that workplace discrimination is entirely extinct, but the PFA presumes the opposite – that men’s earnings outperform women’s solely because of discrimination and that more lawsuits are the fix. Reality is more complex.

If a woman is truly the victim of wage discrimination, she already has the ability to sue. Sex-based wage discrimination has been illegal since the Equal Pay Act of 1963 and Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Proponents of the PFA point out that, despite these longstanding legal protections, women’s earnings continue to lag behind men’s. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average full-time woman’s wages are 81 percent of the average man’s.

This differential, often known as the “wage gap,” is an interesting figure. But importantly, it is not a measure of discrimination toward women. There are many reasons why women – on average – earn less money than men. Basically, women are more willing than men to take greater comfort, safety, leave time and flexibility as tradeoffs for lower pay.

While the BLS calculates the wage gap between men and women, this measure includes everyone who works full time, or more than 35 hours per week. This does not take into account that the average full-time woman works 7.9 hours per day and the average full-time man works 8.5 hours per day.

Men are also more likely to work in dangerous or unpleasant work conditions — which is why the vast majority of work-related deaths are males. This additional risk warrants greater compensation, and the laws of supply and demand bear this out.

The attitude behind the Paycheck Fairness Act completely ignores that women and men may have different preferences and priorities when it comes to pay and jobs. Instead, the PFA sees more lawsuits as the “remedy” for women’s wages.

But greater damages, more class-action lawsuits and increased liability for employers are not the right approach to expanding job opportunities for women. In fact, the PFA is likely to do more to hurt women’s economic outlook than to help.

Employers – especially smaller ones – will face potentially bankrupting lawsuits. As companies divert more resources toward expanded liability insurance, there will be less money leftover to pay workers. The only paychecks that would benefit from PFA are the payouts for trial lawyers. Even worse: Employers will be discouraged from hiring women when they see women as legal risks rather than meritorious workers.

Not only is the Paycheck Fairness Act bad for workers’ paychecks, it is also bad for fairness. Our legal system relies on the philosophy of “innocent until proven guilty.” The PFA inverts that concept by putting the burden of proof on employers to demonstrate that all salary decisions are “job related” and “consistent with business necessity.”

Article continues here http://redalertpolitics.com/2014/04/07/paycheck-fairness-act-good-paychecks-fairness/

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lisaloveslilia

i doubt that very much. if you can't get what you think you deserve now, and waiting for someone (gvmnt) to give you something, after which you think your life will be better (you'll start getting paid more), it wont.

keep in mind discrimination laws already exist.

no one will give you a red cent uinless you ask, go to your boss and tell him you want more money, (just more money since you deserve it, no need to bring up someone salary, (btw if you worked for me, and you came and started to demand higher pay because someone else makes more, i'd fire you on the spot, not him, you. however, if you just asked for raise, i would not fire you even if i didn't give you raise, or i might give you that rase, if you really deserve it.)

if you can't do it now, nothing will change for you, regardless of laws passed, as if gvmnt ever made anyones life easier anyway, lol. you wanna change somethinmg start with yourself, you don't have to change entire world, change yourself, and your life will be better.

take example from females that acomplished a lot, by doing something themselves, not waiting for laws that already exist.

Ah sweet pea! If only every woman in America could hear your enlightening speech! We'd all be right as rain!

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aztek

Ah sweet pea! If only every woman in America could hear your enlightening speech! We'd all be right as rain!

you can spread the word than.

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Michelle

Women should not have fork out over a hundred thousand dollars in attorney fees and put their reputation on the line for equal pay. My sister won a discrimination case that took over two years of living hell to settle. She became a pariah in the business until all of the facts came out about how she had increased sales by nearly half in a little over a year after being hired. The company had stagnated and even the new men under her were making more money after she was with the company over five years. They eventually settled out of court and she got a better job with a different company. If she hadn't been so close to retiring she may not have gone through with it. She could have lost a great deal of her retirement savings for nothing. Most women don't have the resources or the availability of jobs in their field to risk such an endeavor.

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lisaloveslilia

you can spread the word than.

Every day i show up to work!

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RavenHawk

Given your first sentence, would this be true of a Civil Rights bill? Of the phrase "right to bear arms?" Animal rights? Equal access?

No, it would not. Civil Rights are “Natural Rights”. Getting equal pay is not. Natural Rights are not given by governments; they can be taken if the individual cannot retain them. Therefore they need to be protected. That’s where Our Constitution (including the bill of Rights) comes in. These documents limit government reach against its citizens, not grant them Rights. Granting us Rights is government intrusion. From the Declaration of Independence, we see, “All men are created equal”. On a side note, this does not say that we are all equal in talent, just that we all start off with equal opportunity. There is a big difference. This flows with the Parable of the Talents if you understand the lesson of it.

If we were to enforce equal outcome on everybody, then for those that benefit, you also encroach on another portion of the populace. Natural Rights do not encroach or take from others. This is a basic truth that a portion of the ruling elite try to hide or ignore. Our Founding Fathers knew the truth that all men were created equal but tradition blinded their judgment and through compromise we have been paying for it ever since. Right when you’d think that we had paid our penitence, karma raises its ugly head and bites us in the ar$e with this current Administration. But the purpose of the Civil Rights movement was to show that even Black men (Hispanic, Asian, etc.) were equal to White men.

I am all for Gay Rights or more specifically, I believe that any two consenting adults can marry but the purpose of the GLB Rights movement is to impose their specialness on society and that robs from my Rights. Gays are equal to me, not set above. The same goes for equal pay. When it is something that the government has to impose, then it is not a Right. Even if it is for good intentions, government cannot replace or supersede Natural Rights.

The only real solution is to have the market drive equal pay. I am all for women getting equal pay for equal work, however when the government then forces business to abide by such a law, you’ll see things like men getting less pay instead of giving women more. And that will only hurt our economy. The consumer has the real power. If a company is known to under pay women or any group, the consumer can buy products or services from another business (boycott). If business is not responsive to the consumer, it goes out of business. That is why having an educated and aware consumer can protect our Rights better than any government. In fact government should be educating the public, not nannying them. Government needs to be champion of the people, not be dictator. But that’s what happens when it establishes bad laws.

Counter climatically, WTF does animal rights have anything to do with this? By including this on your list shows an ignorance of what Rights are. Which indicates that you believe that it’s the government that gives you things and guides your life. Which is really the belief for most people. And that is when a nation falls into enslavement.

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Leonardo

The only real solution is to have the market drive equal pay.

And in an ideal world this would happen. Where is this ideal world, so we can all go to live there?

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F3SS

Paycheck Fairness Act: Not good for paychecks or fairness

More proof of liberalism producing the exact opposite of its stated intent. Every time, hands down, guaranteed.

Edited by F3SS

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Leonardo

More proof of liberalism producing the exact opposite of its stated intent. Every time, hands down, guaranteed.

"Proof" - do you say that because it has actually been put into effect and has had the opposite effect?

No, didn't think so.

So, where is this proof - this so called "guarantee"?

Back up your claim.

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Mantis914

"Proof" - do you say that because it has actually been put into effect and has had the opposite effect?

No, didn't think so.

So, where is this proof - this so called "guarantee"?

Back up your claim.

Where is your proof that it is working?

Back up yours also...

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Agent0range

Where is your proof that it is working?

Back up yours also...

It wasn't passed, so how exactly could you prove that it is working?

Also, the burden of proof is not on Leonardo. If Leonardo had made a statement saying "All liberal ideas work out 100% of the time", then he would have the burden of proving it.

Edited by Agent0range

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F3SS

"Proof" - do you say that because it has actually been put into effect and has had the opposite effect?

No, didn't think so.

So, where is this proof - this so called "guarantee"?

Back up your claim.

You're such a stickler. It does happen every single time. I've been pretty sick today and don't have the capacity to take this any further ATM but mark my words.

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F3SS

Well I knew I used that phrase a lot and a quick googling resulted in over two pages of unexplained mysteries links where I used the phrase, most of which contain examples of what I mean by it.

Here's a handful of UM links so I don't have to repeat myself.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=257519&st=345

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=247752&st=30

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=244653&st=1950

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=247823&st=45

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=259856&st=90

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=239918

And a google search if you care to find out every instance of why I use and apply the phrase

f3ss liberalism exact opposite site:www.unexplained-mysteries.com

Edited by F3SS

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Michelle

This differential, often known as the “wage gap,” is an interesting figure. But importantly, it is not a measure of discrimination toward women. There are many reasons why women – on average – earn less money than men. Basically, women are more willing than men to take greater comfort, safety, leave time and flexibility as tradeoffs for lower pay.

The attitude behind the Paycheck Fairness Act completely ignores that women and men may have different preferences and priorities when it comes to pay and jobs.

If men took more responsibility in the home women would not have to take as much time off. The majority of the time if a child gets sick the mother stays home to take care of them. If a repair person needs to be called who is there to let them in? If school closes due to an emergency it's usually the woman who has to pick them up. Out of all of the couples I know 90% of the time it is the women who has to deal with unforeseen little day to day emergencies because men deem their jobs are more important and they know it will be taken care of without them.

I'm not saying this is the case with every couple or all men, but think about it for a moment.

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President-Elect Acidhead

If men took more responsibility in the home women would not have to take as muandch time off. The majority of the time if a child gets sick the mother stays home to take care of them. If a repair person needs to be called who is there to let them in? If school closes due to an emergency it's usually the woman who has to pick them up. Out of all of the couples I know 90% of the time it is the women who has to deal with unforeseen little day to day emergencies because men deem their jobs are more important and they know it will be taken care of without them.

I'm not saying this is the case with every couple or all men, but think about it for a moment.

The way you just defined that it seems legislation like this is more of a forced subsidie on employers for the benefit of two working parents.

lol

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President-Elect Acidhead

I've been self employed since 2002. I install hardwood flooring. Competition has never been greater in 12yrs. Wages have plummeted. When I read stuff like this it just makes my head spin. The Collectivists are at it again! ....pitting women against men! What a great idea to grow the economy! All hail the commander in chief!

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