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Republicans block 'Paycheck Fairness Act'

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Michelle

The way you just defined that it seems legislation like this is more of a forced subsidie on employers for the benefit of two working parents.

lol

Or are women being punished by men at work because they hold the reigns at home? :whistle:

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spartan max2

I will gladly read any studies that the pro-bill people post. Im open to the idea that this could be a problem. I'm just not convinced

But like i said my main issue is that in this bill and others they use the study that says on average men make 77 cents more then women. To reiterate, that study does not work for me because they do not look at any details for anyone pay, they just purely ask how much they get paid. They have no care for work hours, job titles, experience etc. When the work force has been traditionally mostly men it only makes since that they are probably in the higher up jobs.

As time goes on that will obviously shift.

And another thing that makes me against this bill is when people say you " are against women" because you dont support that bill. It just sounds like propaganda when people do that. If you are right then dont accuse people of discrimination, show us with logic studies and reason

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Jeremiah65

I will gladly read any studies that the pro-bill people post. Im open to the idea that this could be a problem. I'm just not convinced

But like i said my main issue is that in this bill and others they use the study that says on average men make 77 cents more then women. To reiterate, that study does not work for me because they do not look at any details for anyone pay, they just purely ask how much they get paid. They have no care for work hours, job titles, experience etc. When the work force has been traditionally mostly men it only makes since that they are probably in the higher up jobs.

As time goes on that will obviously shift.

And another thing that makes me against this bill is when people say you " are against women" because you dont support that bill. It just sounds like propaganda when people do that. If you are right then dont accuse people of discrimination, show us with logic studies and reason

Ad Hominem works better...why debate when you can just attack the person you disagree with?

I like the solution that was given earlier. Everyone needs to stand up for themselves...go in and ask for a raise. You do not have to tell the "boss" that you know that the guy in the next cubicle is making more money...you don't even need to attack that "man"...state your case..."I have accomplished this and that and I have increased sales..." or whatever the case may be. But using another person as a scapegoat because you feel underpaid is just bad form and shows insecurity and lack of a well formulated position.

If you think you deserve more money...ask for it and say why you think you deserve it...don't say "I want more money because Jimmy makes more than me and he is a putz"

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Merc14

"Proof" - do you say that because it has actually been put into effect and has had the opposite effect?

No, didn't think so.

So, where is this proof - this so called "guarantee"?

Back up your claim.

Obamacare and Stimulus. Both cost trillions and are worthless wastes of time and money

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President-Elect Acidhead

Or are women being punished by men at work because they hold the reigns at home? :whistle:

Punished???? Unfortunately this is the mentality of many. How do single men or single women fit into this equation if its about fairness? It doesn't! All that happens when gov interferes in the daily lives of the individual is it creates more victims!

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Render

It is not about men and women. So, what happens if the man in the cube next to me makes more money? Am I not allowed to sue because I am a man? So we should just sue everyone? How can it be proven that my employer doesn't just think the other guy does better work than me? This is a slippery slope. If something like this does get passed, it takes away any reason to try to excel in the workplace. You think I'm going to bust my *** when the girl in the next office is doing her nails and getting paid the same as me?

Because we live on the planet earth which has the history of demeaning women. And non-equal pay in benefit of the man is worldwide and systematic.

So don't even try to play the pretend game that we live in magical universe where this isn't fact.

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aztek

. So sensitive when it comes to equality.

not equality, special treatment.

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OverSword

I'm thinking this got voted down due to riders.

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aztek

Because we live on the planet earth which has the history of demeaning women.

our world has history of very bad and cruel things, so what???? iti s no longer a case. move on. get over it, you can't use it as argument, find another wind mill to attack.

Edited by aztek

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Michelle

Punished???? Unfortunately this is the mentality of many. How do single men or single women fit into this equation if its about fairness? It doesn't! All that happens when gov interferes in the daily lives of the individual is it creates more victims!

Oooh, he got testy over my little joke...I so sorry.

Look, you guys can deny it happens, but I've personally seen it too many times not to know for a fact it does. I've seen several businesses close, to my immense satisfaction, after the women that were the glue of the company left because they weren't given the credit and the pay they deserved. The archaic mentality has reared it's ugly head in this very conversation. Little men with big egos have a very difficult time answering to a woman in the work place and there is still no shortage of small men.

You think I'm going to bust my *** when the girl in the next office is doing her nails and getting paid the same as me?

This comment is the perfect example.

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spartan max2

it is still the case..are you unable to process the information that has been given to you in this thread?

aparantly so

good for you that you live in lala land , but don't try to give your opinion on the real world then

you talking to the mirror there boy?

Can you gives us something that shows this is true other then just saying we do not understand because we are men.......

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Render

Can you gives us something that shows this is true other then just saying we do not understand because we are men.......

ok seriously, does no man here bother reading the posts women have made here?

plenty of real life examples there

Michelle made an excellent case... but everyone just pretended she didn't say anything .. probably because it got a lil to real for them

Beany has made several excellent points.

And lets not forget lisaloves ok ... all real stories from real life with real examples. Read it till you weep.

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aztek

usa court system favors females, females are protected class, in family courts 90% cases or more favor females, there are antidiscrimination laws on books already, and yet they a still want more special treatments. of well, good luck, keep in mind that females voted against this bill as well.

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aztek

ok seriously, does no man here bother reading the posts women have made here?

plenty of real life examples there

none actually, i see you can't even tell a difference between opinions and facts, and yet you try to tell us something???? lmao.

Edited by aztek

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Render

usa court system favors females, females are protected class, in family courts 90% cases or more favor females, there are antidiscrimination laws on books already, and yet they a still want more special treatments. of well, good luck, keep in mind that females voted against this bill as well.

maybe you should realise that repeating until your blue in the face that women are a protected class is degrading towards women. You're acting like they get everything because men found the mercy within themselves to grant them lil judicial opportunities to ATTEMPT to get on their level.

You're just full of it... but if pretending that you are the one struggling for everything while females get everything from the court , is what helps you sleep at night. Then whatever. You hold absolutely no merrit.

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Render

none actually, i see you can't even tell a difference between opinions and facts, and yet you try to tell us something???? lmao.

Opinions??

No see, what you are trying to do is give your opinion. Without any ability to place yourself in another situation you pretend that there is no problem and we should just all carry on... while women are finally continuing the fight for equality. Which makes you o so uncomfortable.

What the women have posted here is the facts how there is no pay equality.

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spartan max2

ok seriously, does no man here bother reading the posts women have made here?

plenty of real life examples there

Michelle made an excellent case... but everyone just pretended she didn't say anything .. probably because it got a lil to real for them

Beany has made several excellent points.

And lets not forget lisaloves ok ... all real stories from real life with real examples. Read it till you weep.

You seem really hung up on this men thing as if some how the fact that i am a man makes my opinion on this matter wrong. Which makes you the one appearing sexist.

Maybe you should realize people who disagree with you do not do it because they are sexist or just because we are "men"

All i want is some legit studies. As my other post has shown the "poster child" study that they used to support this bill is so flawed.

Personal examples are nice but they are really subjective, which means their could be other factors or things are preceived different then they actually are. And no I dont believe they are making it up.

And you seem to want to ignore how a bill like this could have adverse effects on labor in general. But I guess we are only concerned about that because we are men....

Edited by spartan max2

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aztek

Opinions??

No see, what you are trying to do is give your opinion. Without any ability to place yourself in another situation you pretend that there is no problem and we should just all carry on... while women are finally continuing the fight for equality. Which makes you o so uncomfortable.

What the women have posted here is the facts how there is no pay equality.

yes opinions nothing more. unless you have names\rates\work hours, punch in\out times, you do not have any facts.

you are not equal, you are above already.

there is no such thing as equal pay and there should not be, since there is no equal people. i used to have people working for me, and i used to pay them, none ever got paid the same , simply cuz no 2 people are the same.

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Michelle

Personal examples are nice but they are really subjective, which means their could be other factors or things are preceived different then they actually are.

Which is why any study would be picked apart. You can't gauge every aspect of an employee employer relationship, individual work performance or going over and above the call of duty. That can only be done up close and personal.

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Render

You continue to do personal attacks on everyone yet I am the one taking it personal?

By the look of your post it seems like your the one being offended by everyone else views and the one who decides to attack people and make stupid comments about gender

why don't you put some effort and time into reading the posts the females have made and try and debate that?

Take Michelle's post for example, on how not everyone has the financial back up to start a litigation process to earn equal pay. Have at it.

Oh and btw, you are the one who made it personal riiiight about here:

You seem really hung up on this men thing as if some how the fact that i am a man makes my opinion on this matter wrong. Which makes you the one appearing sexist.

are you getting hysterical that you don't realise what you are saying anymore?

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President-Elect Acidhead

What happens when a woman is payed more than another woman.... or a man payed more than another man at a business?

This happens all the time too!

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Render

What happens when a woman is payed more than another woman.... or a man payed more than another man at a business?

This happens all the time too!

well that's not the issue is it

it's about MEN-WOMEN

what is it with the men here trying to deflect the topic at hand and turning into something completely unrelated. Reality to hard for ya?

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President-Elect Acidhead

I believe this type of legislation has less to do with male vs female than it does about GOV interference in the market.

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RavenHawk

And in an ideal world this would happen. Where is this ideal world, so we can all go to live there?

Granted, that is a bit of the ideal. That is why I said that I think most people believe in the nanny state, because they have lost the faith. But our Founding Fathers shared that ideal. They were motivated by their common fear of the alternative. And that’s what started our Republic. It seems that today, people don’t fear Totalitarianism (until it’s too late or it’s not what they thought it was), despite all the warnings raised across this nation from people that had escaped that kind of government. I.e. in the form of Manuel Martinez. Most take our freedoms for granted as if they will always be there. It’s only an ideal when people lose the dream. We need something that will revitalize the dream that our Founding Fathers had. Regular practice of the dream doesn’t keep it an ideal for long, but reality. Why relinquish ourselves to the lowest common denominator?

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spartan max2

Which is why any study would be picked apart. You can't gauge every aspect of an employee employer relationship, individual work performance or going over and above the call of duty. That can only be done up close and personal.

True, but that also could be said for why we cant have a bill like this.

For example, how would you personally solve this problem if you could make any law?

Like if we say you have to get the same pay for the same job then all of a sudden we have one person who technically has the same job but is better at it now having to get the same pay as the person who is not as good at it. With all the factors in a work pay relationship i just dont see how we could have a law not have adverse effects.

What is your take on that?

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