Conservatives vs Liberals

[spacecowboy342]

And how many deaths were needed to free the slaves?

None if we hadn't enslaved anyone to begin with. Or if the southern aristocracy had had the humanity to free them peacefully

[CrimsonKing]

Lincoln is at the very top of the mountain of revisionist lies!He wasn't the worst pres ever but the over the top adulation and praise people give this man is vastly over rated and undeserved!

It is a shame people cannot take the time to search for real time documentation of the events in history as they unfolded.Though i must say it is not an easy trip down memory lane,much has been pushed to the side for one purpose or another....

[Yamato]

Americans who actually freed slaves are all dead now. As for the lot of us, we haven't freed slaves we've made new ones. As much as slavery is relevant to conservatives and liberals, I see neither group lifting one fat finger to address the epidemic of slavery we have in the US today.

What I think is most ironic about the Civil War is that ending slavery is the silver lining to a bloodbath no other western nation needed to end slavery. The way our own history reflects on the war, slavery was the cause and effect, the beginning and the end of it. The public school system taught us about slavery, Abraham Lincoln, and the dastardly attack on Fort Sumter that gave honest Abe no other choice. It's so sanitized it's like what we teach our kids about Thanksgiving. We all sat down together and had a nice meal with the Indians.

Now if you'll excuse me, I must have a moment with my crayons to color this Indian Corn I drew, just as soon as I pledge allegiance of course.

[CrimsonKing]

You nailed it yam

Don't know why certain parts of this original post just dissappeared....Oh well

Edited June 4, 2014 by CrimsonKing

[Yamato]

I agree with you CrimsonKing, cherry picking the facts and creating the focus is a subtler form of bs.

"We've been all put to sleep. Put to sleep to a system. A system that continues to perpetrate ignorance amongst our spirits and amongst our minds. One that wants you not to act. A system that would rather see all of you at that bar drinking beer filling your minds being put to sleep with beer or with drugs, rather than acting against it and fighting a system which has been perpetrating imperialist lies for five hundred years." ~ Zack de la Rocha

De la Rocha is right. and he's right for liberals and conservatives both. Anyone who could stand with either of these mainstream political groups in America is the problem. They are the system. Or so I'm here to debate anyway.

I think maybe the true essence is deeper than just politics. I think some people want to assimilate, they want more of themselves. Good taxpayers. Legal citizens. Obedient workers. Gullible consumers of the words and pills.

[Yamato]

I would add Reagan to that list

In all fairness, I wouldn't subtract it if you did.

[spacecowboy342]

I agree with you CrimsonKing, cherry picking the facts and creating the focus is a subtler form of bs.

"We've been all put to sleep. Put to sleep to a system. A system that continues to perpetrate ignorance amongst our spirits and amongst our minds. One that wants you not to act. A system that would rather see all of you at that bar drinking beer filling your minds being put to sleep with beer or with drugs, rather than acting against it and fighting a system which has been perpetrating imperialist lies for five hundred years." ~ Zack de la Rocha

De la Rocha is right. and he's right for liberals and conservatives both. Anyone who could stand with either of these mainstream political groups in America is the problem. They are the system. Or so I'm here to debate anyway.

I think maybe the true essence is deeper than just politics. I think some people want to assimilate, they want more of themselves. Good taxpayers. Legal citizens. Obedient workers. Gullible consumers of the words and pills.

I think you make a good point but the flip side of this is the fact that the problem has always been voter apathy and the fact that the American attention span struggles to last through a two minute sound bite so you might say we have the system we deserve

[CrimsonKing]

Like you said yam,everyone wants someone like themselves....I am not like that,i used to think i was on one side or another dem or rep,then one day i realized im not!I may have had some similair thoughts in one way or another,but i am not a puppet!

I have nothing in common with either set of political drones,I believe in fairness for all without all these little garbage new rules that actually seperate,but by design are supposed to "intergrate"

[spacecowboy342]

Yeah the problem is it isn't about true ideology any more but a competiton to see who gets the best seats at the trough

[Yamato]

Like you said yam,everyone wants someone like themselves....I am not like that,i used to think i was on one side or another dem or rep,then one day i realized im not!I may have had some similair thoughts in one way or another,but i am not a puppet!

I have nothing in common with either set of political drones,I believe in fairness for all without all these little garbage new rules that actually seperate,but by design are supposed to "intergrate"

I'm willing to bet you're right. It's hard for me to think of solutions to this puppetry when everything is such a tangled mess anymore. County level action might be a start. Create enough controversy with epic reforms in a county to get the mainstream media robots involved, and then aspire to higher and higher offices to state then to federal. I have to wonder though, if a state, let's say Alaska, seceded from the union today what would our bipartisan collective do?

[F3SS]

None if we hadn't enslaved anyone to begin with. Or if the southern aristocracy had had the humanity to free them peacefully

African slavers enslaved them first. The English bought them and became slavers. The English brought slavery to America and when we stopped being English slavery was carried into the new America. It was already here. How come we get all the heat for slavery but never the British? Ehh, it is what it is. All in all though, only what like seventy years as a new independent country and we abolished thousands of years of what much of mankind considered normal for lack of better words. America as an independent country held slaves for relatively no time at all compared to countries of the past.

[spacecowboy342]

African slavers enslaved them first. The English bought them and became slavers. The English brought slavery to America and when we stopped being English slavery was carried into the new America. It was already here. How come we get all the heat for slavery but never the British? Ehh, it is what it is. All in all though, only what like seventy years as a new independent country and we abolished thousands of years of what much of mankind considered normal for lack of better words. America as an independent country held slaves for relatively no time at all compared to countries of the past.

We were the English. And later the English abolished slavery long before we did. Somewhat ironic slaves would have gained liberty much sooner had we lost the revolution.

[spacecowboy342]

African slavers enslaved them first. The English bought them and became slavers. The English brought slavery to America and when we stopped being English slavery was carried into the new America. It was already here. How come we get all the heat for slavery but never the British? Ehh, it is what it is. All in all though, only what like seventy years as a new independent country and we abolished thousands of years of what much of mankind considered normal for lack of better words. America as an independent country held slaves for relatively no time at all compared to countries of the past.

We were the English who enslaved them. England abolished slavery long before we did. Ironic that blacks would have gotten liberty much sooner had those freedom loving founders of ours lost the revolution. As always America lags behind the world when it comes to principles of freedom and liberty

[F3SS]

We were the English. And later the English abolished slavery long before we did. Somewhat ironic slaves would have gained liberty much sooner had we lost the revolution.

Well that's a bit convoluted. If English law had abolished slavery long before then how come we still had slaves? In a twist of fate when did the English abolish slavery, 1777?

[Yamato]

King George III, Breaker of Chains, Defender of Freedom, Liberator of Nations. How did that villain Tommy Jeff the Tainted ever defeat such a Champion? But Lo! The anointed one Abraham Lincoln the Illustrious came and restored Order to the realm.

[F3SS]

I looked it up now. So 1833 they abolished slavery. Geez cowboy, you speak as if they were light years ahead of US.

[No Censorship]

We were the English. And later the English abolished slavery long before we did. Somewhat ironic slaves would have gained liberty much sooner had we lost the revolution.

God bless the memory of Wilberforce. How many college students even know who he is?

[No Censorship]

Americans who actually freed slaves are all dead now. As for the lot of us, we haven't freed slaves we've made new ones. As much as slavery is relevant to conservatives and liberals, I see neither group lifting one fat finger to address the epidemic of slavery we have in the US today.

What I think is most ironic about the Civil War is that ending slavery is the silver lining to a bloodbath no other western nation needed to end slavery. The way our own history reflects on the war, slavery was the cause and effect, the beginning and the end of it. The public school system taught us about slavery, Abraham Lincoln, and the dastardly attack on Fort Sumter that gave honest Abe no other choice. It's so sanitized it's like what we teach our kids about Thanksgiving. We all sat down together and had a nice meal with the Indians.

Now if you'll excuse me, I must have a moment with my crayons to color this Indian Corn I drew, just as soon as I pledge allegiance of course.

I don't buy the nonsense about "evil dead White men". Sure, there are plenty of bad ones. You can say the same thing about both genders and all ethnicities. There's something wrong with the human species. Tribalism is just smoke and mirrors used to hide that fact. Adolf Hitler, Idi Amin, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein, etc. are cut from the same cloth. The same holds true for Albert Schweitzer, Martin Luther King, Harry(?) Wu, Gandhi, etc.. It all comes down to individuals and the decisions they make.

[Bama13]

We were the English who enslaved them. England abolished slavery long before we did. Ironic that blacks would have gotten liberty much sooner had those freedom loving founders of ours lost the revolution. As always America lags behind the world when it comes to principles of freedom and liberty

And as always Europe leads in racism. Just listen to what the futbol fans yell at black players. They call them monkey, ape man, n*****, etc. They throw bananas at them, scratch under their arms and make monkey sounds. Now go to a football game and you will not here or see those things.

[MiskatonicGrad]

And as always Europe leads in racism. Just listen to what the futbol fans yell at black players. They call them monkey, ape man, n*****, etc. They throw bananas at them, scratch under their arms and make monkey sounds. Now go to a football game and you will not here or see those things.

Now Bama you need to watch yourself the enlightened nonracist Europeans who evidently had freed a free African population "long" before us have come along way. I mean look at Germanys African prime....or Frances African pres....

how about Englands freely elected African..... well dang it they freed them first anyway!