Conservatives vs Liberals

[spacecowboy342]

It's never going to change if we keep satiating ourselves with bandaiding over a failed system and keeping it intact.

Yeah but the poor need help. If we want to reduce dependence on welfare we need to have the minimum wage keep pace with inflation

[Frank Merton]

Somehow I think the Vietnamese people had a different feeling about this in the 60's

Actually I would guess the Vietnamese people had no particular opinion. They were highly divided: it was a civil war that America and others intervened in. Vietnam went on to intervene to stop the outrage in Cambodia under Pol Pot.

As I said, national sovereignty is an excuse by tyrants to do what they want and tell others to mind their own business, even when all morality and that is good calls for it to be stopped.

Yeah but the poor need help. If we want to reduce dependence on welfare we need to have the minimum wage keep pace with inflation

Minimum wages help in a few isolated situations, but usually they just create recessions and unemployment.

[Frank Merton]

Believe it or not but we have "liberals" and "conservatives" in Vietnam. The liberals want to push for integration of Vietnam into the world economy and opening up the country to the outside world, the conservatives oppose this sort of thing and put their emphasis on stability.

[spacecowboy342]

Actually I would guess the Vietnamese people had no particular opinion. They were highly divided: it was a civil war that America and others intervened in. Vietnam went on to intervene to stop the outrage in Cambodia under Pol Pot.

As I said, national sovereignty is an excuse by tyrants to do what they want and tell others to mind their own business, even when all morality and that is good calls for it to be stopped.

Minimum wages help in a few isolated situations, but usually they just create recessions and unemployment.

Actually I would guess the Vietnamese people had no particular opinion. They were highly divided: it was a civil war that America and others intervened in. Vietnam went on to intervene to stop the outrage in Cambodia under Pol Pot.

As I said, national sovereignty is an excuse by tyrants to do what they want and tell others to mind their own business, even when all morality and that is good calls for it to be stopped.

Minimum wages help in a few isolated situations, but usually they just create recessions and unemployment.

Actually I would guess the Vietnamese people had no particular opinion. They were highly divided: it was a civil war that America and others intervened in. Vietnam went on to intervene to stop the outrage in Cambodia under Pol Pot.

As I said, national sovereignty is an excuse by tyrants to do what they want and tell others to mind their own business, even when all morality and that is good calls for it to be stopped.

Minimum wages help in a few isolated situations, but usually they just create recessions and unemployment.

I would dispute that minimum wages help only a few or create recessions or unemployment. A large portion of the workforce is below the poverty line. All of these would be helped by tying the minimum wage to the poverty line. Getting more money into the hands of these people will stimulate the economy and make unemployment less. I agree with you in principle that nationalism is an outmoded idea but still as long as their is national sovereignty it must be respected. Their are of course exceptions. Pol Pot would qualify as one.

[Yamato]

Yeah but the poor need help. If we want to reduce dependence on welfare we need to have the minimum wage keep pace with inflation

Only if you accept the inflation which hurts the poor the most. Causing the problem and then supporting reactions to it that don't solve it? That's exactly what allows you to say it'll never change.

[Guest]

Only if you accept the inflation which hurts the poor the most. Causing the problem and then supporting reactions to it that don't solve it? That's exactly what allows you to say it'll never change.

Inflation will never go away - its built in. So what you going to do about it - let the poor starve.

Br Cornelius

[Yamato]

Inflation will never go away - its built in. So what you going to do about it - let the poor starve.

Br Cornelius

So "it is the way it is". I'm hearing that BS line quite often these days from the Conservalibs.

Inflating the money supply is built in, because we have a giant central bank full of magic zeroes and endless borrowing inflating our money supply for us. Avoiding real solutions like Ending the Fed allows you to state your nevers.

[Guest]

So "it is the way it is". I'm hearing that BS line quite often these days from the Conservalibs.

Inflating the money supply is built in, because we have a giant central bank full of magic zeroes and endless borrowing inflating our money supply for us. Avoiding real solutions like Ending the Fed allows you to state your nevers.

No Yamato - because it is lent into existence at interest. I advocate changing that, but until it is changed the reality is that Inflation is built in. I refuse to deny reality simply because it fails to match my prejudices.

Br Cornelius

[Yamato]

No Yamato - because it is lent into existence at interest. I advocate changing that, but until it is changed the reality is that Inflation is built in. I refuse to deny reality simply because it fails to match my prejudices.

Br Cornelius

I can't deny the reality that I have to pay my bills, and I would like my little lords to at least do the same. What prejudice is that? It's a single standard good enough for everyone.

Until it is changed, we agree.

[MiskatonicGrad]

I would dispute that minimum wages help only a few or create recessions or unemployment. A large portion of the workforce is below the poverty line. All of these would be helped by tying the minimum wage to the poverty line. Getting more money into the hands of these people will stimulate the economy and make unemployment less. I agree with you in principle that nationalism is an outmoded idea but still as long as their is national sovereignty it must be respected. Their are of course exceptions. Pol Pot would qualify as one.

are you saying if minimum wage is raised the cost of living is not going to go up causing the "poverty" line to climb also? who sets this imaginary poverty line? are these people under the line starving or are they sacrificing a meal or two so they can have some facebook time on their smartphone? I would say the "poverty line" in America is set a little high there by qualifying people for benefits they don't deserve which basically limits the amount of help we can give people who really need it.

[spacecowboy342]

are you saying if minimum wage is raised the cost of living is not going to go up causing the "poverty" line to climb also? who sets this imaginary poverty line? are these people under the line starving or are they sacrificing a meal or two so they can have some facebook time on their smartphone? I would say the "poverty line" in America is set a little high there by qualifying people for benefits they don't deserve which basically limits the amount of help we can give people who really need it.

I would say you don't have a clue what you are talking about. Have you ever tried to feed and clothe a couple of kids on less than 8 bucks an hour? It is a crime in this country, the richest in the world, that children do without and old ladies have to choose between buying food and buying medicine while the corporate fat-cats whine over their tax burden. Wake up and take a look around. And no wages don't cause inflation. Prices aren't dependent on the cost of production but on demand. Businesses are already gouging the public for all the market will bear. Raising wages will just decrease the profit margin. Wal-Mart cleared 5 billion dollars last year. I think they could afford to pay their help enough so they don't need food stamps.

[spacecowboy342]

Only if you accept the inflation which hurts the poor the most. Causing the problem and then supporting reactions to it that don't solve it? That's exactly what allows you to say it'll never change.

The financial sector caused the problem. Why now must the poor bear the burden?

[MiskatonicGrad]

I would say you don't have a clue what you are talking about. Have you ever tried to feed and clothe a couple of kids on less than 8 bucks an hour? It is a crime in this country, the richest in the world, that children do without and old ladies have to choose between buying food and buying medicine while the corporate fat-cats whine over their tax burden. Wake up and take a look around. And no wages don't cause inflation. Prices aren't dependent on the cost of production but on demand. Businesses are already gouging the public for all the market will bear. Raising wages will just decrease the profit margin. Wal-Mart cleared 5 billion dollars last year. I think they could afford to pay their help enough so they don't need food stamps.

life, if you don't already know is about choices. I wouldn't have a couple of kids if I only made 8 bucks an hour. now go ahead and say I'm a cold-hearted son-of-a-you know what. if these people you refer to can't figure out it cost money to have kids why do I need to shoulder their burden. maybe 8 buck an hour is all they are worth? life's hard. it's harder if your stupid. and no I don't hear the corporate fat-cats whining about their tax burden usually it is someone like you whining about the corporate fat-cats lack of tax burden. wages are also dependent on demand if you have someone who will flip burgers for 8 dollars an hour and someone who will do it for 10 which are you going to hire? you raise minimum wage more middle class jobs will go overseas. which will widen the gulf between rich and poor that you are trying to close.

[spacecowboy342]

life, if you don't already know is about choices. I wouldn't have a couple of kids if I only made 8 bucks an hour. now go ahead and say I'm a cold-hearted son-of-a-you know what. if these people you refer to can't figure out it cost money to have kids why do I need to shoulder their burden. maybe 8 buck an hour is all they are worth? life's hard. it's harder if your stupid. and no I don't hear the corporate fat-cats whining about their tax burden usually it is someone like you whining about the corporate fat-cats lack of tax burden. wages are also dependent on demand if you have someone who will flip burgers for 8 dollars an hour and someone who will do it for 10 which are you going to hire? you raise minimum wage more middle class jobs will go overseas. which will widen the gulf between rich and poor that you are trying to close.

Really? You never in your life had sex? Any sexual act can and sometimes does result in children. No form of birth control is 100% effective and not all pregnancies are planned. And sometimes people's lives don't go according to plan. Should this be a death sentence? As far as jobs going overseas this is happening despite what the minimum wage is. American workers can't compete with third world sweat shops which is why all this free trade crap is killing us. Middle class jobs are not minimum wage jobs dipstick. Minimum wage jobs are poverty level or at least they would be if minimum wage is raised to poverty level

[MiskatonicGrad]

Really? You never in your life had sex? Any sexual act can and sometimes does result in children. No form of birth control is 100% effective and not all pregnancies are planned. And sometimes people's lives don't go according to plan. Should this be a death sentence? As far as jobs going overseas this is happening despite what the minimum wage is. American workers can't compete with third world sweat shops which is why all this free trade crap is killing us. Middle class jobs are not minimum wage jobs dipstick. Minimum wage jobs are poverty level or at least they would be if minimum wage is raised to poverty level

are you telling me you honestly believe every single child born into poverty is unplanned? really? I must be a freak of nature. I've had sex a lot in and out of wedlock and still the only kids I got are the two I planned for. maybe I just got lucky.

so how exactly is raising the minimum wage going to help us better complete with third world sweat shops and retain middle-class jobs? or are you just like screw the middle-class as long as our burger-flippers are taken care of.

who is going to go to said burger joint and buy the burgers?

I'm not going to pretend I know how to fix this "poverty" problem but I have learned that throwing more money at a problem usually doesn't fix it. especially when you can't control where that money goes. giving the poor more money doesn't necessarily make them not poor, sometimes it just means they are poor with nice things.

[acidhead]

The financial sector caused the problem. Why now must the poor bear the burden?

Just curious. ..

Is your complaint with Walmart or every single business who employs one or more individuals?

[Yamato]

The financial sector caused the problem. Why now must the poor bear the burden?

There's truth in your first statement and empathy in your question.

The financial sector isn't just a small contributor here, I agree. So you hold the Federal Reserve down on the block and I'll swing the sword. The poor must bear the burden because we do not do this, because we do not solve the problem. We're entitled to the rising prices in virtually everything into perpetuity, and dragging the poor along for the ride. There's always going to be poor people. Like the war on terror, that's another unwinnable war. I admire your intentions though.

[spacecowboy342]

are you telling me you honestly believe every single child born into poverty is unplanned? really? I must be a freak of nature. I've had sex a lot in and out of wedlock and still the only kids I got are the two I planned for. maybe I just got lucky.

so how exactly is raising the minimum wage going to help us better complete with third world sweat shops and retain middle-class jobs? or are you just like screw the middle-class as long as our burger-flippers are taken care of.

who is going to go to said burger joint and buy the burgers?

I'm not going to pretend I know how to fix this "poverty" problem but I have learned that throwing more money at a problem usually doesn't fix it. especially when you can't control where that money goes. giving the poor more money doesn't necessarily make them not poor, sometimes it just means they are poor with nice things.

Must be a terrible burden for you being so perfect. Who are you to tell anyone how to live their lives or condemn them to malnutrition for the mistakes of their parents? Raising the Minimum wage won't help compete with sweatshops. That is a separate issue. You're the one that brought up jobs leaving the country which has nothing to do with the minimum wage. The minimum wage raise will reduce our dependence on food programs and instill a sense of pride in those who support themselves with their own work and not government handouts. Tarriffs are necessary to stop jobs from going out of the country but that is another issue.

[spacecowboy342]

There's truth in your first statement and empathy in your question.

The financial sector isn't just a small contributor here, I agree. So you hold the Federal Reserve down on the block and I'll swing the sword. The poor must bear the burden because we do not do this, because we do not solve the problem. We're entitled to the rising prices in virtually everything into perpetuity, and dragging the poor along for the ride. There's always going to be poor people. Like the war on terror, that's another unwinnable war. I admire your intentions though.

Yes, as the Christ said, the poor will be with us always. But there are things we can do to ease their burden. I think getting more money to the bottom will help the economy

[spacecowboy342]

Just curious. ..

Is your complaint with Walmart or every single business who employs one or more individuals?

I don't think small business should have to follow the same rules as big business

[Socio]

My take on conservative vs Liberal;

Most conservatives believe in God.

Most Liberals think government is God.

Conservatives believe "the government which governs best governs least." (Thomas Paine) that government should serve the will of the people and that government by its very nature tends to be inefficient, ineffectual, wasteful, power hungry and easily corrupted.

Liberals think that the solution to every problem is a bigger government and the people should serve the will of the government.

Conservatives believe government dependence is tantamount to slavery.

Liberals think enslaving people to government dependence (their ultimate source of power and control) is a necessity for the peoples own good.

Conservatives believe that Americans have a right to defend themselves and their families with guns and that right cannot be taken away.

Liberals believe in taking guns away from Americans, and placing their protection solely on that inefficient, ineffectual, wasteful, power hungry and easily corrupted government, giving zero thought as to who is going to protect them from said government.

Conservatives believe that we should live in a color blind society where every individual is judged on the content of his character and the merits of his actions.

Liberals believe that it's ok to discriminate based on, gender, sexual orientation, and race as long as that race is not White.

Conservatives believe in learning from history.

Liberals believe in re-writing it as they see fit.

Conservatives believe you should be kind and generous to the poor and needy and gladly give money from their own pockets.

Liberals believe the same thing, as long as it’s other people’s money they are giving and they can claim credit for being compassionate in doing so.

Both Conservative and Liberals believe all men are created equal, however;

Conservatives believe through hard work one should be unfetter to better ones self in their pursuit of happiness.

Liberals believe no matter how hard or little you work you should remain equal, that forced equality is happiness.

In a nutshell I think a conservative is really an angry liberal that got punched in the face with a reality check.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Socio

[F3SS]

Very nice. Wrong on one thing though.

giving zero thought as to who is going to protect them from said government.

They've thought about it. They don't need protection from government because this is the 21st century.

[spacecowboy342]

My take on conservative vs Liberal;

Most conservatives believe in God.

Most Liberals think government is God.

Conservatives believe "the government which governs best governs least." (Thomas Paine) that government should serve the will of the people and that government by its very nature tends to be inefficient, ineffectual, wasteful, power hungry and easily corrupted.

Liberals think that the solution to every problem is a bigger government and the people should serve the will of the government.

Conservatives believe government dependence is tantamount to slavery.

Liberals think enslaving people to government dependence (their ultimate source of power and control) is a necessity for the peoples own good.

Conservatives believe that Americans have a right to defend themselves and their families with guns and that right cannot be taken away.

Liberals believe in taking guns away from Americans, and placing their protection solely on that inefficient, ineffectual, wasteful, power hungry and easily corrupted government, giving zero thought as to who is going to protect them from said government.

Conservatives believe that we should live in a color blind society where every individual is judged on the content of his character and the merits of his actions.

Liberals believe that it's ok to discriminate based on, gender, sexual orientation, and race as long as that race is not White.

Conservatives believe in learning from history.

Liberals believe in re-writing it as they see fit.

Conservatives believe you should be kind and generous to the poor and needy and gladly give money from their own pockets.

Liberals believe the same thing, as long as it’s other people’s money they are giving and they can claim credit for being compassionate in doing so.

Both Conservative and Liberals believe all men are created equal, however;

Conservatives believe through hard work one should be unfetter to better ones self in their pursuit of happiness.

Liberals believe no matter how hard or little you work you should remain equal, that forced equality is happiness.

In a nutshell I think a conservative is really an angry liberal that got punched in the face with a reality check.

What a crock. A conservative is someone who thinks the 2nd amendment is the only one that counts Edited May 8, 2014 by spacecowboy342

[andy4]

My take on conservative vs Liberal;

Most conservatives believe in God.

Most Liberals think government is God.

Conservatives believe "the government which governs best governs least." (Thomas Paine) that government should serve the will of the people and that government by its very nature tends to be inefficient, ineffectual, wasteful, power hungry and easily corrupted.

Liberals think that the solution to every problem is a bigger government and the people should serve the will of the government.

Conservatives believe government dependence is tantamount to slavery.

Liberals think enslaving people to government dependence (their ultimate source of power and control) is a necessity for the peoples own good.

Conservatives believe that Americans have a right to defend themselves and their families with guns and that right cannot be taken away.

Liberals believe in taking guns away from Americans, and placing their protection solely on that inefficient, ineffectual, wasteful, power hungry and easily corrupted government, giving zero thought as to who is going to protect them from said government.

Conservatives believe that we should live in a color blind society where every individual is judged on the content of his character and the merits of his actions.

Liberals believe that it's ok to discriminate based on, gender, sexual orientation, and race as long as that race is not White.

Conservatives believe in learning from history.

Liberals believe in re-writing it as they see fit.

Conservatives believe you should be kind and generous to the poor and needy and gladly give money from their own pockets.

Liberals believe the same thing, as long as it’s other people’s money they are giving and they can claim credit for being compassionate in doing so.

Both Conservative and Liberals believe all men are created equal, however;

Conservatives believe through hard work one should be unfetter to better ones self in their pursuit of happiness.

Liberals believe no matter how hard or little you work you should remain equal, that forced equality is happiness.

In a nutshell I think a conservative is really an angry liberal that got punched in the face with a reality check.

Most people (should) believe that the above post is via a schizophrenic.

Biggest load of garbage I've read on here in a while. But nice conservative leaning "this is how everyone thinks" post.

I think that we're thinking that you don't what you're thinking about, but you think we know what you're thinking, but we're thinking we don't think so.Think so?

[F3SS]

As a mostly conservative guy I feel like the conservative descriptions were spot on. I also believe the liberal descriptions were too. Why don't you two angry fellas take each of the liberal descriptions and dispute them?