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Conservatives vs Liberals


Agent0range

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Im surprised this thread is still going on

Why? I don't think it's been that bad. A little heated maybe but I don't think it needs shut down. A thread of this nature is is going to get testy.

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Not me. I think this one will be epic.

Reminds me of a thread on a BAMA football site where a poster asked where he could get an official BAMA hat in orange. In case you don't know BAMA fans hate orange (allbarn and the 10rc viles both wear orange). Last time I checked the thread was around 150 pages of people telling him that they do not make BAMA hats in orange. The showed him pink hats (beast cancer awareness), green hats (St Patrick's day), etc. Pretty much every color under the sun, except orange.

Why? I don't think it's been that bad. A little heated maybe but I don't think it needs shut down. A thread of this nature is is going to get testy.

I meant it more as in I don't think this thread deserves much attention. The Oringinal Post is just a stupid hit piece

Edited by spartan max2
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I meant it more as in I don't think this thread deserves much attention. The Oringinal Post is just a stupid hit piece

It was but sometimes I'm just a dumb 12 year old illiterate gullible fish.

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The Oringinal Post is just a stupid hit piece

with an endless shelf life; which is the same as the Conservative vs. Liberal argument itself, once these groups are flayed open for what they really are.

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with an endless shelf life; which is the same as the Conservative vs. Liberal argument itself, once these groups are flayed open for what they really are.

And you're always here to join the fun. Where does that put you?

Edited by F3SS
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And you're always here to join the fun. Where does that put you?

I don't run to Washington DC to ask for anything I happen to be interested in. And that doesn't mean that I don't have interests. I'm full of them. So where isn't Washington DC. I'll have to discover whether that really matters to you, or not.

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sometimes I wonder if the world is not as complicated as people make it out to be. and if it isn't who are the smart ones? for instance I believe that our country being in debt as much as it is is a bad thing now I'm sure someone on the left could give me a 12 page dissertation on why it is okay to have this much debt and it is how the world works. but what if what they have been told is wrong and the way they look at is backwards. I look at the state of our economy and I see stagnation and that leans more to my belief. but I'm sure someone more intelligent than me will say our monster debt has nothing to do with the economy and raising taxes would help more than lowering the debt.

was this study done by people who had a preconceived notion of their own intelligence and a arrogant thought that they were smart enough to gauge the intelligence of others? sounds fixed.

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I don't run to Washington DC to ask for anything I happen to be interested in. And that doesn't mean that I don't have interests. I'm full of them. So where isn't Washington DC. I'll have to discover whether that really matters to you, or not.

I can't help but feel you implying that I'm looking to DC to help of some kind. Other than that I'm not sure what you could mean. Asking where that puts you meant where is your ability to restrain from these arguments you claim to despise. I believe you want to be a mediator but you're right in the middle of the shlt with everyone else most of the time.

sometimes I wonder if the world is not as complicated as people make it out to be. and if it isn't who are the smart ones? for instance I believe that our country being in debt as much as it is is a bad thing now I'm sure someone on the left could give me a 12 page dissertation on why it is okay to have this much debt and it is how the world works. but what if what they have been told is wrong and the way they look at is backwards. I look at the state of our economy and I see stagnation and that leans more to my belief. but I'm sure someone more intelligent than me will say our monster debt has nothing to do with the economy and raising taxes would help more than lowering the debt.

was this study done by people who had a preconceived notion of their own intelligence and a arrogant thought that they were smart enough to gauge the intelligence of others? sounds fixed.

The left can and will say that the world is extremely complicated and that math doesn't work for government the way it does for people. I've been told as much. Balancing a check book only matters for people but not countries. Seems backwards to me. As for complication, well it is a little complicated for sure but they over complicate it with more bureaucracy who makes it more complicated and tells you we need more bureaucracy to help out with the convolution. I don't know. It's a mess by design and our debt has everything to do with the design of bureaucracy to solve bureaucracy. Bureaucrats put US in debt, raise taxes, spend that and then some putting US further in debt and ask for more taxes. Now I'm confused...

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I'm sure there are plenty of attempts to enlighten other than a YouTube video shot in someone's basement. Unlike left wing policies which need to be 'proven' relentlessly most right wing policies are a matter of being left alone. What needs proven more? The upsides of today's highly imposing liberalism or the upsides of being left alone conservatism? Doesn't matter. You'll wish to impose your will on me or insult me if I resist. So why don't you use your highly evolved conversational skills and show everybody the proper way to support right wing policies. It's the threads and their awfully embarrisng members here but not the policies, correct? Fact of the matter is that we are all capable of carrying on good talks and debates but things get messy when you show up because you are confrontational. Seriously, what did you expect of this thread. Peace? Ha!

Leaving alone is simply lazy policy making and will often lead to the worst possible outcome. It ignores evidence that change is a necessity in most situations.

Lazy and complacent all round.

Br Cornelius

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sometimes I wonder if the world is not as complicated as people make it out to be. and if it isn't who are the smart ones? for instance I believe that our country being in debt as much as it is is a bad thing now I'm sure someone on the left could give me a 12 page dissertation on why it is okay to have this much debt and it is how the world works. but what if what they have been told is wrong and the way they look at is backwards. I look at the state of our economy and I see stagnation and that leans more to my belief. but I'm sure someone more intelligent than me will say our monster debt has nothing to do with the economy and raising taxes would help more than lowering the debt.

was this study done by people who had a preconceived notion of their own intelligence and a arrogant thought that they were smart enough to gauge the intelligence of others? sounds fixed.

The only way to do away with state debt is to change the whole economic system which lends money into existence, otherwise you have to accept debt as the de facto norm of everyday existence. Are you ready for an economic revolution, a move away from the economics of infinite growth to service an ever expanding debt ?

Unfortunately the concept of a balanced national budget is another denial of the reality we live in - an escape from the hard facts of life and a failure to understand the bigger economic picture.

I personally would do away with money as debt - but then again I would reform the whole economic system in far more radical ways than just that.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Guest
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Leaving alone is simply lazy policy making and will often lead to the worst possible outcome. It ignores evidence that change is a necessity in most situations.

Lazy and complacent all round.

Br Cornelius

Your nanny state world of big brother government does nothing but breed laziness and dependence. If you want motivation and human progress you'll see it in spades when the chains of overreaching bureaucracy are unshackled.

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I can't help but feel you implying that I'm looking to DC to help of some kind. Other than that I'm not sure what you could mean. Asking where that puts you meant where is your ability to restrain from these arguments you claim to despise. I believe you want to be a mediator but you're right in the middle of the shlt with everyone else most of the time.

I'm not talking about you Fess; you're talking about me. You can take it personally if you want. If you feel as though I'm talking about you in what I said above, then maybe I am talking about you.

I don't despise the argument; only the two self-righteous entitlement complexes doing the arguing. It's good theory to rail against Washington in the hypothetical. Safe. But let's not fail the theory when we actually have an opportunity to apply it. If you can't understand that, you're nothing like me at all. And that's fine; but the principle still doesn't bend to your interests or mine. When people fail to eat their own cooking they deserve to be called out for it. Even your cronies too, Fess.

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I meant it more as in I don't think this thread deserves much attention. The Oringinal Post is just a stupid hit piece

Can you elaborate on the "stupid hit piece" part? The articles were not meant to be focused on. It was the peer reviewed studies that you should be focusing on. It was not a single study either, it was numerous studies. You are more than welcome to post actual studies in the thread to denounce the findings.

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I'm not talking about you Fess; you're talking about me. You can take it personally if you want. If you feel as though I'm talking about you in what I said above, then maybe I am talking about you.

I don't despise the argument; only the two self-righteous entitlement complexes doing the arguing. It's good theory to rail against Washington in the hypothetical. Safe. But let's not fail the theory when we actually have an opportunity to apply it. If you can't understand that, you're nothing like me at all. And that's fine; but the principle still doesn't bend to your interests or mine. When people fail to eat their own cooking they deserve to be called out for it. Even your cronies too, Fess.

So I was wrong. Wasn't really that concerned with it.

After that, I'm not sure I do understand. Sometimes you write cryptically instead of being clear and is the initial reason for most of our disagreements. What is this opportunity and what is it that makes you think I want to be like you? What home cooking won't I eat? Who are my cronies? Specifics...

Edited by F3SS
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Can you elaborate on the "stupid hit piece" part? The articles were not meant to be focused on. It was the peer reviewed studies that you should be focusing on. It was not a single study either, it was numerous studies. You are more than welcome to post actual studies in the thread to denounce the findings.

Then you shouldn't of made them the links. One of them doesn't even contain a link to the study. You made them the focus.

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So I was wrong. Wasn't really that concerned with it.

After that, I'm not sure I do understand. Sometimes you write cryptically instead of being clear and is the initial reason for mist of our disagreements. What is this opportunity and what is it that makes you think I want to be like you? What home cooking won't I eat? Who are my cronies? Specifics...

If it's unclear just ask, as always. If I see your question I'll answer it.

Cronies? That'd probably include Merc14 and Michelle among others. We can review recent specifics for them but I think you probably know what they are.

What home cooking won't you eat personally? I hadn't thought of that yet. How about this small limited government you're always talking about when it comes to military? The US military spending has to be three times bigger than anything else in the world! If liberals on domestic issues openly wanted the govt to be three times bigger for their special interest than anything else in the world, that would be ridiculous. And it is. Where does this sense of entitlement come from? The amount of govt spending per capita is off the hook anymore. Why can't you protect yourself better than that, that you need three times the military nanny of anyone else? Is it paranoia? Is it a silent or even unwitting insistence that the show (policy) must go on? I don't know what it is. But liberal v conservatism in America today is just fighting over the wallet. One bad idea of big govt vs the other.

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Cronies? That'd probably include Merc14 and Michelle among others. We can review recent specifics for them but I think you probably know what they are.

What home cooking won't you eat personally? I hadn't thought of that yet. How about this small limited government you're always talking about when it comes to military? The US military spending has to be three times bigger than anything else in the world! If liberals on domestic issues openly wanted the govt to be three times bigger for their special interest than anything else in the world, that would be ridiculous. And it is. Where does this sense of entitlement come from? The amount of govt spending per capita is off the hook anymore. Why can't you protect yourself better than that, that you need three times the military nanny of anyone else? Is it paranoia? Is it a silent or even unwitting insistence that the show (policy) must go on? I don't know what it is. But liberal v conservatism in America today is just fighting over the wallet. One bad idea of big govt vs the other.

Now I didn't think you meant UM members. I don't have any problems with them but I don't think they'd be offended if I didn't think of them as my cronies. Even stranger is I don't see either of them as in the same ball park with their views that I know of.

We had that discussion. At least I'm within the limits of the constitution if we are going to be spending big money on anything it should be the military and it should be three times more than the next few big countries combined or whatever my argument was but that's close. I'd have to see the numbers again. Can't recall ATM. But no it isn't that much right now. It's way way more and three times is making a cut. We did this debate to death already. You liken support for strong military to being entitled? Give me a break. Government spending is off the hook and there are a million other things worth many hundreds of billions or trillions of dollars that we could've done and can do without. Paranoia? No. Just the way it is these days. Again though, this was hashed out in its entirety. Any direction we could go on this particular matter has been discussed thoroughly. I've already got the wallet. Thing is, I want to lighten it with military cuts and broad government overhaul. The opposing side wants to keep the wallet, take mine, take yours, give it to the victim of the day, take more wallets, spend more than what's in them, find more victims, promise them more wallets, ask for our new wallets to keep bad promises, ......

Me= Less

Less is better.

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Now I didn't think you meant UM members. I don't have any problems with them but I don't think they'd be offended if I didn't think of them as my cronies. Even stranger is I don't see either of them as in the same ball park with their views that I know of.

We had that discussion. At least I'm within the limits of the constitution if we are going to be spending big money on anything it should be the military and it should be three times more than the next few big countries combined or whatever my argument was but that's close. I'd have to see the numbers again. Can't recall ATM. But no it isn't that much right now. It's way way more and three times is making a cut. We did this debate to death already. You liken support for strong military to being entitled? Give me a break. Government spending is off the hook and there are a million other things worth many hundreds of billions or trillions of dollars that we could've done and can do without. Paranoia? No. Just the way it is these days. Again though, this was hashed out in its entirety. Any direction we could go on this particular matter has been discussed thoroughly. I've already got the wallet. Thing is, I want to lighten it with military cuts and broad government overhaul. The opposing side wants to keep the wallet, take mine, take yours, give it to the victim of the day, take more wallets, spend more than what's in them, find more victims, promise them more wallets, ask for our new wallets to keep bad promises, ......

Me= Less

Less is better.

Our discussion showed me that you want 3x bigger than anyone else. That's off the charts. I need a logarithmic chart just to pull it back down on the page. "Just the way it is these days". Terrible! That sounds on par with ninjadude when we're talking about his interests.

Of course it's an entitlement! Like all entitlement complexes they're easy to deny yet there are reasons to keep them. And I don't even know why you need yours. That it's at least arguably Constitutional (?) isn't a reason. "Just the way it is" isn't either.

Liberals are "Less" too, so they're better too. I know plenty of people who would stop giving millions of Americans three hots and a cot all year long. Add that up. We're the most imprisoned nation on the planet and they want a whole lot less imprisonment. Less is better, and that doesn't differentiate liberal v conservative either.

You really want to get rid of the Democrats' Obamacare? Then sacrifice the holy Republican lamb with it, the Medicare Part D pill mill bill. That would be "bipartisanship" that I could approve of. The compromise that actually represents "less is better". Imagine that.

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Do I want the federal government doing to me, or to YOU Fess, what it does to other people overseas? Not only no, but HELL NO. Let's have some principle here already. What is so intolerable these days about the Golden Rule as soon as you cross some damned borderline drawn by governments?

Do you really want smaller government and a principle to actually get you there? Government shouldn't have a right to do anything that YOU can't do, Fess. Join me in telling that to this "conservative" old guard now hard at work brain damaging their newbies, and you might get the smaller government you say you want in your lifetime. Or we can continue doing what we're doing (no matter which party is in control), growing the power and scope and cost of govt, and fighting over the wallet while it happens.

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Your nanny state world of big brother government does nothing but breed laziness and dependence. If you want motivation and human progress you'll see it in spades when the chains of overreaching bureaucracy are unshackled.

Not my point - my point is that a do nothing policy simply ignore problems and breeds a lack of engagement like you have just displayed.

Br Cornelius

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I meant it more as in I don't think this thread deserves much attention. The Oringinal Post is just a stupid hit piece

This is precisely the perfect thread that deserves much attention, unless you are of the Liberal persuasion that will do what you can to divert from the truth of it. The more the Liberal mindset is brought into the light, the sooner it will fade away. That's how evolution works.

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Not my point - my point is that a do nothing policy simply ignore problems and breeds a lack of engagement like you have just displayed.

That's a totally unaware point. When F3SS talks about "do nothing", does not mean to be unengaged. Wisdom shows that things will work out on their own most of the time without government involvement. Government does not need to step in at the hint of a problem and say, "we know better". When government gets involved, it takes away people's natural inclination to engage and get involved. That's what breeds a lacking of engagement. That is the Tragedy of the Commons. And that is directly born of a Liberal mind. Individuals help each other, when government gets involved, it's the other guy's worry.

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That's a totally unaware point. When F3SS talks about "do nothing", does not mean to be unengaged. Wisdom shows that things will work out on their own most of the time without government involvement. Government does not need to step in at the hint of a problem and say, "we know better". When government gets involved, it takes away people's natural inclination to engage and get involved. That's what breeds a lacking of engagement. That is the Tragedy of the Commons. And that is directly born of a Liberal mind. Individuals help each other, when government gets involved, it's the other guy's worry.

Back to your magical thinking - the divine hand of the market and all that.

Again thanks for showing how you don't understand basic concept like the Tragedy of the Commons - which is an example of the downside of not regulating a shared resource. The tragedy of the Commons is a classic argument for enhanced regulation.

Every post you make just enhances your reputation for not knowing what your talking about.

Br Cornelius

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The world is more liberal than it ever was - so your evolution seems to be going the wrong way :w00t:

The world is still evolving. Socialism has been the most common form of government in history and it is still the most common. But throughout history, there have been pockets in cultures that manage to free themselves of Authoritarian government. And it will continue, whatever happens to America and the Constitution, Man will evolve. Evolution can backslide, but it will eventually move forward again.

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