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Pendekar Timur

U.S. Should Talk More....!

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Pendekar Timur

Iraqis Say U.S. Should Talk More, Shoot Less

Thu Nov 4, 2004 05:06 PM ET

By Khaled Yacoub OweisBAGHDAD (Reuters)

Leading Iraqi politicians called on re-elected President Bush on Thursday to rely more on talks and less on the gun to solve Iraq's problems.

The United States should stop acting like an occupier, hand more control to Iraqis and stop backing a security apparatus that could start resembling that of Saddam Hussein, they said.

"American use of unchecked force will not work. Look at the security forces that have multiplied in the past few months. The result has been less security, not more, said Haidar al-Ubadi," a senior official in the Shi'ite Al-Dawa party, which worked with U.S. and British forces after last year's Iraq war to peacefully stabilize several Iraqi cities.

"There cannot be two democratic standards, one for America and one for the Third World," he said. "Bush's policy of relying on the military and allowing former ruling Baath party members back is stifling society."

Although Iraq's government has been trying to co-opt former Saddam loyalists by offering them jobs, it has failed to convince former Baathists in Sunni regions such as Falluja west of Baghdad to lay down their arms.

Officials say followers of Jordanian militant Abu Musab al-Zarqawi are also in Falluja.

CIVILIAN DEATHS

Iraq's Deputy Foreign Minister Hamid al-Bayati said the insurgency was partly due to mistakes Bush made earlier.

"Using force that kills civilians on a large scale is a mistake. The logic of occupation must end. Bush's main mistake was not to let an Iraqi provisional government take power after Saddam was toppled," he said.

"The resistance operations were seen coming as soon as the United States kept acting as an occupier. The solution now must include the Americans lessening their presence on the streets."

Iraq's Interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi said force must be used against those who have attacked civilians and want power through violence. Hundreds of civilians have also died in U.S. attacks on Falluja and other cities this year.

Iraqi Vice President Ibrahim al-Jaafari said he understood Bush's view that the country had to be secure before Iraqis could assume more control, but that loss of civilian lives could undermine this position.

"We now look forward for Mr Bush and the international community to realize their promises on sovereignty, prosperity and stability," Jaafari told Reuters.

"Force is the last option, and it has to be confined (to being used) against those who are callously killing Iraqis."

Iraq's National Security Adviser Mowaffaq al-Rubaie, who was sidelined after opposing U.S. attacks to crush Shi'ite rebels in the holy city of Najaf three months ago, said Iraqis have to take of their share of the blame for the chaos.

"Iraq is George Bush's baby and I think he remains committed to a federal, democratic Iraq," he said, "The performance of the interim government is worrying."

SOURCE

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Pendekar Timur

U.S. Marines Set for Assault on Iraq's Falluja

Fri Nov 5, 2004 02:32 AM ET

By Michael Georgy NEAR FALLUJA, Iraq (Reuters) - A senior U.S. commander said on Friday Marines were making final preparations for an imminent offensive against Iraq's rebel bastion of Falluja and awaiting orders to strike.

"We are almost ready. We are making last preparations. It will be soon. We are just awaiting orders from Prime Minister (Iyad) Allawi," Colonel Michael Shupp, commander of regimental combat team one, told Reuters.

Allawi was due to meet European Union leaders in Brussels on Friday and was expected to return to Iraq after that.

The U.S.-led offensive is designed to crush Islamic militant followers of al Qaeda ally Abu Musab al Zarqawi and Saddam Hussein loyalists who the Americans say are entrenched in Falluja, 50 km (30 miles) west of Baghdad.

Allawi hopes that pacifying Falluja will break the back of an insurgency raging across Iraq and stabilize other rebel strongholds ahead of elections scheduled for January.

Shupp said he did not know if Zarqawi, whose group has claimed responsibility for hostage beheadings and some of Iraq's most spectacular bombings, was in Falluja.

"Capturing or killing Zarqawi would be a real boon," said Shupp.

But he added that the offensive would still be considered a success even if Zarqawi survived it.

"The operation will be over when the terrorists are crushed and Falluja is handed back to the legitimate Iraqi government," he said.

CIVILIAN CASUALTIES

Marines halted an offensive on Falluja last April after an international outcry over civilian casualties, when local doctors reported more than 600 people killed.    Continued ...

SOURCE

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vimjams

I'll tell you this much Pendekar...That criminal Bush and his gang couldn't care a jot about civilians deaths. It's all part of the package he's been selling to the gullible US electorate.

Deaths of our own can be avenged...Deaths of foreign civilians can be excused...with an apology maybe?

vimjams

ph34r.gif

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lego jedi

collateral damage ...... its just a label for murder , it just sounds better when you oppologise to say

"We greatly regret the collateral damage..."

rather tan

"We greatly regret killing unarmed children and there parents in there sleep when we bombed the wrong building ...."

just my opinoin tho.

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vimjams

A very 'sound' opinion lego

Vimjams

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Stellar
I'll tell you this much Pendekar...That criminal Bush and his gang couldn't care a jot about civilians deaths. It's all part of the package he's been selling to the gullible US electorate.

Yes... they dont care at all about civilian deaths, and that is why they are giving residents of falluja time to evacuate the city. Thats why they risk insurgents getting away... because they dont care about civilian deaths.

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twpdyp

12 years of talks yielded what? Just how long was the world supposed to allow Saddam to thumb his nose at your all powerful U.N.? It seems to this writer that we talked enough. I also suppose that when the next tyrant comes along that we should just roll over and play dead, or maybe sit up and beg for mercy. How many hundreds of thousands of Iraq citizens did that monster kill? When is it time for force? I believe that talking is all fine and dandy but when it ceases to be effective we must try a new tact. Bowing to a bully only empowers the bully. Standing up to the bully makes the bully examine his position and make a choice between his version of winning or his version of losing. We stood up to a world class bully and continue to make a stand against these tyrants. Ohhh and just where did we find this bully, cowering in a hole hiding like a coward.

As for the Marine assult on Falluja, it is about time. I thoughts and prayers are with these fine men and women of the United States Marine Corp. My thoughts and prayers also go out to all of the brave men and women in the military, United States and our allies.

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Babs
I'll tell you this much Pendekar...That criminal Bush and his gang couldn't care a jot about civilians deaths. It's all part of the package he's been selling to the gullible US electorate.

Yes... they dont care at all about civilian deaths, and that is why they are giving residents of falluja time to evacuate the city. Thats why they risk insurgents getting away... because they dont care about civilian deaths.

342963[/snapback]

...and that's why our soldiers get killed because they are looking out for the Iragi civilians. And those blasted terrorists know that and use that knowledge to their advantage. Then people like you come along and say what the terrorists want you to say (about us americans)....are you a terrorist, vimjams?

Edited by Babs

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kikuchiyo

I definitly think that the US chould talk more. They should find a way to put back the pieces and regain the confidence of the UN. It would be best strategy to lower the number of death.

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vimjams
are you a terrorist, vimjams?

You've said some pretty nasty personal and childish comments in these threads Babs .At first, I put that down to your total lack of tolerance with opposing points of view...but the above piece of garbage just smacks of something so poisonous that it truly reveals the 'evil' that dwells within your disturbed little nature.

Besides...I'm hardly gonna say "yes" to your question am I...So you better watch out because you'll never be certain and...who is the stranger that seems to be following you (?)

Vimjams

ph34r.gif

Edited by vimjams

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Fluffybunny

are you a terrorist, vimjams?

Babs, not everyone that offers a different opinion than yours is a terrorist.

Edited by Fluffybunny

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vimjams

And I get accused of 'flaming'

Vimjams

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BurnSide

vimjams obviously hates freedom. (sarcasm)

rolleyes.gif

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Nxt2Hvn
are you a terrorist, vimjams?

Babs, not everyone that offers a different opinion than yours is a terrorist.

343457[/snapback]

I dont' think she meant it that way Fluffy... it's the way he says things!... So much hate.. and discontent! huh.gif

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vimjams

Nxt2Hvn...That's an awful thing to label somebody who expresses a difference of opinion. I can't help it if we come from opposite side of the Atlantic and my language is colourful and direct. I'm not full of hate...Discontent (maybe) but not hate. How dare you. I read other people posts and do not feel a need to judge them personally on that basis...Apart from Stellar and Babs, I don't think I have been giving anyone a problem with regard to their own opinions.

Come on...Show me a bit of courtesy. I'm not rude to you and although my opinions appear strong and robust...I'm still being civil.

Vimjams

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Fluffybunny

Vimjams, was Nxt2Hvn speaking about you or Babs? It sounded like Babs to me...

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Lottie
are you a terrorist, vimjams?

Babs, not everyone that offers a different opinion than yours is a terrorist.

343457[/snapback]

I dont' think she meant it that way Fluffy... it's the way he says things!... So much hate.. and discontent! huh.gif

343467[/snapback]

Oh I think she absoloutely meant it that way.

And this time I feel Vijams has every right to be angered by this.

Edited by Lottie

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Babs

I think Lottie is jealous. I think Lottie has a personal battle with me. cool.gif Why is it that Lottie can call me vile names and she doesn't get suspended?

vimjams 'is' hateful. It comes out just as he feels it ...and Lottie is very hostile and venomous, they are both jealous of the USA as a few of us on here have said.

I see how vile vimjams is and how he comes off and I don't really like it, so I will try to calm my rhetoric, Fluffy, but it's hard when you have a snivelling infant like Lottie hanging on your sleeves. rolleyes.gif

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Babs

Lottie writes:

..at this time I feel vimjams has a right to be angered...

....trying to start trouble, Lottie? cool.gif

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Seraphina

urg....why oh why does Babs still have an account here...it boggles the mind...

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Babs

Holy ****, here comes Seraphina. How are those experiments going? tongue.gif

'Scientific Seraphina' is on the board.

Edited by Babs

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BurnSide

oo do me next do me!!

Edited by BurnSide

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Seraphina

*wonders if that's supposed to be offensive....because she doesn't really think it's a very good attempt if it is tongue.gif*

Having spent a great deal of time sitting around the board in invisible mode, just watching rather than posting (now having a job on top of university means I have to be more economical with my free time than spending it endlessly argueing with people who's crazy opinions are enough to tell me they live on another planet tongue.gif), I've noticed a pattern...

Thread starts....people post....eventually Babs posts....Babs says something rascist, arrogant, xenophobic, small minded, or otherwise ridiculous...fight starts...thread gets locked.

I repeat my above question, can't we get a break from this crazy girl for a while? tongue.gif

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Babs

How's tricks Seraphina...been to the graveyard lately? whistling2.gif Patterns, patterns that's good....learn that in one of your experimentin' classes?

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Babs
oo do me next do me!!

343670[/snapback]

oooo, I love doing Scorpios. wub.gifdevil.gif

Edited by Babs

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