XingWi Posted April 30, 2014 #76 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I never made that claim. I said that some believers post odd claims and clips that embarrass a lot of believers. I never said that Christians and theists form the bulk of conspiracy theorists. How did you reach that conclusion from anything I said? Sorry about the misunderstanding. Reading your OP at first I got the impression that you were trying to say that but you cleared that up in your later posts that I didn't read. Yes I agree with you totally. I can relate to what you are saying. Some people do believe in ludicrous and fantastic things and get overly defensive if you try to refute their claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Censorship Posted April 30, 2014 Author #77 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Sorry about the misunderstanding. Reading your OP at first I got the impression that you were trying to say that but you cleared that up in your later posts that I didn't read. Yes I agree with you totally. I can relate to what you are saying. Some people do believe in ludicrous and fantastic things and get overly defensive if you try to refute their claims. Well, I'm saying that some Christians and theists make other Christians and theists cringe when they post very wacky claims and clips. Anyway, I take no offense at your earlier posts. Miscommunications are rampant on most forums. Discussions are much easier in real life. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted April 30, 2014 #78 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Well, I'm saying that some Christians and theists make other Christians and theists cringe when they post very wacky claims and clips. Anyway, I take no offense at your earlier posts. Miscommunications are rampant on most forums. Discussions are much easier in real life. One of the best tests of true ethical behavior vs its sham counterpart done for show is how one behaves when one is unseen, anonymous. The behavior of some auto drivers who are rude to others is an example, as is behavior on a message board. Of course some people are honest and obnoxious all the time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XingWi Posted May 1, 2014 #79 Share Posted May 1, 2014 One of the best tests of true ethical behavior vs its sham counterpart done for show is how one behaves when one is unseen, anonymous. The behavior of some auto drivers who are rude to others is an example, as is behavior on a message board. Of course some people are honest and obnoxious all the time. I am fully aware of your grudge against me and your intentions to get back at me for my objecting to your double standards and hypocrisy in the middle east section. I had sensed your intentions earlier in this thread when you contradicted me only for the sake of contradicting, and that is why I didn't reply to you. Conspiracy theories ARE linked with the psychology of distrust: Insights into the Personalities of Conspiracy Theorists: Psychologists find that distrust of authority and low agreeableness are among factors underlying the willingness to believe. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/insights-into-the-personalities-conspiracy-theorists/ As for your opinion about me or my behavior, I really have no need to get a certificate of conduct from someone whose sense of morals and "ethics" is so high that he feels absolutely no shame in declaring his indifference to the killing of innocent children. So whether you choose to shut up or continue with your frustrated attempts at insulting me... matters not a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Censorship Posted May 1, 2014 Author #80 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Ah, gee. I thought that Frank was just being nice to me. I agree with his point, though. We should strive to be civil and cordial, even when we're allegedly anonymous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nenaraz Posted May 12, 2014 #81 Share Posted May 12, 2014 That just goes back to the fact that there are countless variations on the Christian theme. There are hundreds of churches and cults that claim the label of "Christian". To your point, it's unfair to assume that one variation speaks for all variations. The same thing applies to other belief systems, like Islam. Ah, no, there're no countless variations of the "theme". To look at Christianity, truly, you have to follow what's written in the Bible and abide by the commandments. That's fundamental. As soon as you kill someone and state that it's for the act of God, you're not a Christian and can't be called the one. Now, what are the factors which determine who's a real Christian and who isn't? Because a regular Joe guy who beats his wife and kids, goes to the bar drinking beer, shoots animals for a sport and then goes to the Sunday church surely can't be called a representative "Christian". You don't call a guy who has a football ball and plays in the yard - the professional athlete, now, do you? You don't call a guy who puts pepper and garlic on the BBQ a chemist, now, do you? So no, Christianity's no different and you can't apply the general agenda to say "Hey, Christianity did this". No. That's just the mask so, basically, you should learn what it means to be a christian which, in all honestly, doesn't reflect what you provided here. What's the criteria that someone's a Christian? Their "I'm a Christian" sentences? Surely not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Censorship Posted May 13, 2014 Author #82 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Ah, no, there're no countless variations of the "theme". To look at Christianity, truly, you have to follow what's written in the Bible and abide by the commandments. That's fundamental. As soon as you kill someone and state that it's for the act of God, you're not a Christian and can't be called the one. Now, what are the factors which determine who's a real Christian and who isn't? Because a regular Joe guy who beats his wife and kids, goes to the bar drinking beer, shoots animals for a sport and then goes to the Sunday church surely can't be called a representative "Christian". You don't call a guy who has a football ball and plays in the yard - the professional athlete, now, do you? You don't call a guy who puts pepper and garlic on the BBQ a chemist, now, do you? So no, Christianity's no different and you can't apply the general agenda to say "Hey, Christianity did this". No. That's just the mask so, basically, you should learn what it means to be a christian which, in all honestly, doesn't reflect what you provided here. What's the criteria that someone's a Christian? Their "I'm a Christian" sentences? Surely not. You prove my point. You think that you have the answer, but millions of other Christians might not agree with your beliefs. They are just as convinced and sincere as you are. I'll leave the Bible interpretations to another thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ50 Posted May 13, 2014 #83 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Christianity is a very wide term for very many doctrines and dogmas. What it means to be a Christian to one person, doesn't always mean the same to another. Those who claim they have the elusive 'truth', are often the sort of 'Christian' one would avoid at all costs! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gummug Posted May 13, 2014 #84 Share Posted May 13, 2014 New Age Pagans, can be very nonsensical. I swear, you can tell them anything and they will believe it. Most of the time I don't argue with them. It is just a waste of time. [media=] [/media] Hilarious! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted May 13, 2014 #85 Share Posted May 13, 2014 You should warn people about the volume of that video. Made me jump and disturbed the whole house. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gummug Posted May 13, 2014 #86 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I'm willing to debate and discuss their claims in a measured and polite manner, but that's impossible to do in many cases. This holds true for militant debunkers too. In fact, they're a lot like religious fanatics in their reactions to individuals who disagree with their views. That commonality may show that personality trumps ideology. I'm embarrassed only when fellow Christians and theists automatically believe obviously absurd stories. They fall victim to all kinds of opportunists looking to make easy and fast money by fleecing the flock with false claims. Mike Warnke is the father of the modern era of this aggravating phenomenon. People still fall for his kind of con, though. I always believed he was telling the truth about his experiences...and so do some of my Christian friends, I believe...but after doing a modicum of research, maybe he was not bona fide...bummer... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nenaraz Posted May 13, 2014 #87 Share Posted May 13, 2014 (edited) You prove my point. You think that you have the answer, but millions of other Christians might not agree with your beliefs. They are just as convinced and sincere as you are. I'll leave the Bible interpretations to another thread. You'd like to think that, I'm sure, but no. This isn't about proving your agenda since it lacks the concise examination of what falls unto the category of criteria for a Christian. You didn't answer me what's the criteria that you take someone to be a Christian to begin with because if I state that I'm a plumber and i like the purple chewing gum that doesn't make me a plumber nor it makes the entirety of the plumbers to act the same. Individual cases of ignorance are not the valid example of the knowledge about Christianity and one of the most common mistakes that everyone in the US do is - All you need is faith in Christ. No, that's trivialized and banal to the point of vomiting. One needs to know what Christianity is in order to have a strong faith to begin with. You started the topic about people whom you consider to be Christians, based on your knowledge, in order to solidify with people who share similar experiences on the premise of cringe-making, without researching it first obviously, for the sake of bashing Christianity to begin with. "You think that you have the answer" - It's not a matter of what I think, but what are the historical facts of the Christianity itself. There's not much "divide" that you're trying to present as if there're a lot of the actual Christians. Organized Christianity is very much a hierarchical society, and especially in terms of the original five pentarhija (pentarchy). If you'd learn a bit about them it would be a charm. And you're wrong. The organised segments of the church are divided, but the tenet of Christianity is the same for everyone who practice it. There're no chaotic factors which would imply that Christianity's for people who lack cognitive reasoning capacities. Furthermore, what you've implied about Christianity should also be a reminder that, from a logical standpoint, you shouldn't pick up samples that are obviously not connected to the historically accurate church and the historically accurate Christianity. In the US, sure, anyone can make a church, but that doesn't mean it's anything more than a sect. The hierarchical system is meant exactly for these sorts of things, and you can't take the words of a random "believer" in order to diminish the value of Christianity to begin with, no matter how much you obviously hate it which is a result of the obvious ignorance about the matter of Christianity which can be fixed by actually learning a wee bit of history and some of the things that the fathers in Orthodox Christianity had to say. The sad thing is that which I noted in the first post of mine in this topic and it reveals that people who hate Christianity will simply take anyone who states to be a Christian as a representative of Christianity, which is a sad and a stupid practice to begin with. Edited May 13, 2014 by Nenaraz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Censorship Posted May 14, 2014 Author #88 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I always believed he was telling the truth about his experiences...and so do some of my Christian friends, I believe...but after doing a modicum of research, maybe he was not bona fide...bummer... He was a fraud. Mike Todd was too. I could send a long list of cons and cranks to you. It shows the need for logical discernment to separate the wheat from the chaff. You shouldn't feel bad for falling for the fabrications. I went through the same kind of thing with other people and other stories when I was a kid. I'm skeptical of a lot of claims now, but I still think that there's a grain of truth to some of them. In fact, a few of them are right on the money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Censorship Posted May 14, 2014 Author #89 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Nenaraz, I have no interest in arguing religion with you. The main topic of this thread is childish claims and crazy clips, made by fellow Christians and/or theists, that make you cringe in embarrassment. I'm sure that you're convinced that your beliefs are *the* truth. You're in a lot of company, including atheists, there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nenaraz Posted May 14, 2014 #90 Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) All I'm asking is - what's the criteria to know that they're either - Crazy Christians - Theists ? I mean, doesn't it occur to you that they're not really Christians and/or theists to begin with? What proves to me or anyone other that you really understand how to make the criteria for someone to be a Christian. It's not just a matter of declaration. The whole thing is much more complex than that. Edited May 14, 2014 by Nenaraz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherrypress Posted May 14, 2014 #91 Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) That just goes back to the fact that there are countless variations on the Christian theme. There are hundreds of churches and cults that claim the label of "Christian". To your point, it's unfair to assume that one variation speaks for all variations. The same thing applies to other belief systems, like Islam. And this is a perfect example of the problem of faith compared to provable fact.. With something as abstract as "faith" there is no absolute as nothing has been proved for consistency and predictability in the first place.. Everyone subscribing to their particular "faith" tends to believe that they just so happen to be backing the right horse.. This is why there is always wars in the name of faith.. Faith in its nature is ambiguous and naturally open to variations and differences in interpretations.. The are no clearly defined parameters and absolutes.. Yet people will preach, manipulate, kill, and exploit and quite simply judge others and try and influence the way others live their life's based on nothing more then this fickle thing called "faith". Much harder to actually deny and argue when you dealing with good old tangible fact. After all what it is.. Is what it is.. :-) Edited May 14, 2014 by Cherrypress 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted May 15, 2014 #92 Share Posted May 15, 2014 All I'm asking is - what's the criteria to know that they're either - Crazy Christians - Theists ? I mean, doesn't it occur to you that they're not really Christians and/or theists to begin with? What proves to me or anyone other that you really understand how to make the criteria for someone to be a Christian. It's not just a matter of declaration. The whole thing is much more complex than that. If they are ranting about the following things being EVIL, then they are probably a deranged Christian..... Pokemon cards, Harry Potter movies, Dungeons and Dragons, Credit Cards, All Democrats, All Muslims, Separation of Church and State..... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Censorship Posted May 15, 2014 Author #93 Share Posted May 15, 2014 All I'm asking is - what's the criteria to know that they're either - Crazy Christians - Theists ? I mean, doesn't it occur to you that they're not really Christians and/or theists to begin with? What proves to me or anyone other that you really understand how to make the criteria for someone to be a Christian. It's not just a matter of declaration. The whole thing is much more complex than that. I'm just referring to outlandish claims that can't possibly be true. "Grit Rock (they often have weird names) was the head of a secret society that kidnapped millions of giraffes each year to use in their pagan ceremonies, and the "real" Britney Spears was offered to ancient pagan gods at one of them." I know that there's a lot of bizarre and evil stuff going on out there, but some claims are patent nonsense. As for your main question, that's above my pay grade since I'm not omniscient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Censorship Posted May 15, 2014 Author #94 Share Posted May 15, 2014 And this is a perfect example of the problem of faith compared to provable fact.. With something as abstract as "faith" there is no absolute as nothing has been proved for consistency and predictability in the first place.. Everyone subscribing to their particular "faith" tends to believe that they just so happen to be backing the right horse.. This is why there is always wars in the name of faith.. Faith in its nature is ambiguous and naturally open to variations and differences in interpretations.. The are no clearly defined parameters and absolutes.. Yet people will preach, manipulate, kill, and exploit and quite simply judge others and try and influence the way others live their life's based on nothing more then this fickle thing called "faith". Much harder to actually deny and argue when you dealing with good old tangible fact. After all what it is.. Is what it is.. :-) Well, you're wrong because *I* have all the answers to the questions that plague mankind. My church is the one and only right one, and the rest of you are lost. Seriously, I've heard that very thing from people with diametrically opposed views, and all of them claimed to be Christians. That's all I have to say on the subject, as I've hijacked my own thread and drifted it off course so much that it's unrecognizable from the first post. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted May 15, 2014 #95 Share Posted May 15, 2014 The sad thing is that which I noted in the first post of mine in this topic and it reveals that people who hate Christianity will simply take anyone who states to be a Christian as a representative of Christianity, which is a sad and a stupid practice to begin with. I'm sorry but this is ridiculous; I don't think anybody does that. The thing is Christianity presents itself as something that changes people for the better, which is manifestly untrue no matter the details of their belief. However, t opens the door for non-Christians to use bad Christian behavior to attack the whole thing. Christians and non-Christians alike have good and bad attributes and there is nothing in Christianity in this respect to recommend it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Censorship Posted May 15, 2014 Author #96 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Now that the thread is derailed beyond repair, is it too late to ask for some funny stories about some crazy claims? Think Texe Marrs and John Todd with some David Icke thrown in for you New Age conspiracy theorists. For instance, last night's guest on Coast To Coast claimed that Pope Francis appeared in a world court after he was charged with sex crimes. Now, *that* is crazy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nenaraz Posted May 15, 2014 #97 Share Posted May 15, 2014 If they are ranting about the following things being EVIL, then they are probably a deranged Christian..... Pokemon cards, Harry Potter movies, Dungeons and Dragons, Credit Cards, All Democrats, All Muslims, Separation of Church and State..... First time that I read a sentence "A deranged Christian". I doubt that such a thing exists. A much better term would be a religious fanatic, no? However, I see your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Censorship Posted May 15, 2014 Author #98 Share Posted May 15, 2014 First time that I read a sentence "A deranged Christian". I doubt that such a thing exists. A much better term would be a religious fanatic, no? However, I see your point. It can happen. Are there no believers with schizophrenia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Silver Thong Posted May 15, 2014 #99 Share Posted May 15, 2014 It can happen. Are there no believers with schizophrenia? That would be a loaded question and one that really might not have an answer. Is religion a condition. I think it is due to indoctrination. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted May 15, 2014 #100 Share Posted May 15, 2014 That would be a loaded question and one that really might not have an answer. Is religion a condition. I think it is due to indoctrination. Maybe schizophrenics are much easier to indoctrinate. Looking at the statements and actions of religious extremists, it is not hard to discern a marked paranoia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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