Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -

Trickle down economics is a lie, the proof !


Guest Br Cornelius

Recommended Posts

Well actually, losing everything you got is not so bad. That's only everything you got right now. But lets say you lose so much you'd be in debt for the rest of your life pretty much no matter what you do, unless you win in lottery or something. Lets say you take a big loan to start up a daring enterprise. Do or die. I've already gambled my two years worth of paycheck to improve a certain person's life, that's nothing in comparison to taking a big loan. If banks or anyone gave you such loan... taking it from less reputable sources could be even worse if you can't pay back like you promised.

Being poor is not scary, being without a future, that's another thing.

We can philosophize about rich and poor and how good or bad it is all day, but what govt policy gives one a future? Fire departments already keep you from burning to death, police already stop a gunman from murdering you later, the department of education offers low interest tuition loans too favorable to pass up. And we haven't even gotten to Trickle Down or Trickle Up or Trickle Drip Dried Up yet.

What duty does my country have to my future, and where does that duty end?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is not what 'trickle down' means. Where do the wealthy keep their wealth? Most of their wealth is invested. Invested in what? Heavy in stocks and bonds for the most part. What do investments in stocks and bonds do? It provides companies with capital to grow their business. Well what does that do? It creates jobs.

in China.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What duty does my country have to my future, and where does that duty end?

I agree. This used to be the Land of Opportunity, not the Land of the Dependent. People were expected to make their own way in life and work hard to get where they were going. Now people expect to sit around and have Safeway.com deliver everything to their kitchen table.

Edited by DieChecker
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

in China.

I never said where ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree. This used to be the Land of Opportunity, not the Land of the Dependent. People were expected to make their own way in life and work hard to get where they were going. Now people expect to sit around and have Safeway.com deliver everything to their kitchen table.

Hmmm, I don't know anyone personally who sits around and has safeway.com deliver everything to their kitchen table. Are you telling me that hundreds of millions of people are sitting around ordering dinner off of safeway.com? Perhaps I should invest in safeway.com ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The wealthy by definition have to have most of the wealth. They should and almost always do also pay most of the taxes. I think it is important that the politics of envy not get in the way of a society's use of the possibility of getting wealthy as the main way to get people to work hard, take risks and invest.

Welfare tends to generate a welfare dependent class. I see a need to support the truly incompetent and aged and so on, and to provide a safety net for people via insurance schemes, but almost always these things end in corruption and waste and gross misapplication (such as paying for soft drinks and cigarettes).

Inherited wealth is a more difficult problem, but part of the motive people have in accumulating wealth is to pass it on, so this should not be eliminated. Nevertheless really huge fortunes have to be taxed away over the generations to prevent too much concentration.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We've had a trickle-out economy, where goods manufacturing is concerned. 20,000 pages of rules and these are the results we get. Undoing everything we did in the 20th century. Gee if only they had 2000 pages more, right regulators?

Great job at officiating our downfall, bureaucrats. Nice work with those whistles. Jim Rogers is right. In 1802 if you wanted to get rich you invested in London. In 1902 you invested in the US. In 2002, Asia.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pages and pages of rules are what you get when you subscribe to the myth of "rule by law," which is really "rule by lawyers." The alternative, a command economy, has the problem of corrupt officials, but shooting one of them every now and then helps, and, come to think of it, all the rules in the world does not seem to stop corruption anyway.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The alternative to the WTO is socialism? What socialist country is breaking free from the rules to wing it on their own these days?

The better alternative is free trade, where I agree to receive something of equal or greater value for myself while you receive something of equal or greater value for yourself. The seller and buyer mutually agree to the conditions of their exchange. That is the rules.

Actually trusting central planning bureaucrats to micromanage an economy? People should be free enough to make the economy themselves; they don't need know it alls in suits telling them (in 20,000 pages) what to do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What tends to happen in a free economy is people take advantage of situations (disasters, monopolistic positions, good locations, whatever) to screw others, and of course politicians, doing what they see as their job, pass laws to stop it, which of course requires bureaucrats to enforce the laws and lawyers to challenge their decisions and trials and litigation and rules to deal with the results of the litigation and so on.

Before long the economy is not free.

Planned economies don't work much better: here there is a decision made at the top that a certain amount of a certain thing should be produced by a certain factory and sold at a certain price. Can you imagine actually do that for every product and service in an economy? And, of course, unexpected things happen -- a disaster, a new technology, a new resource discovery, whatever. So the plan ends up being just general guidelines -- something that can be useful when done right and interpreted sensibly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can imagine Ebay, where the people determine the prices they buy and sell at. It works, no price fixers needed. Companies can list their merchandise in such a market if they wish and at the prices they choose and the market will determine whether that price is fair or not. Conditions in the market such as the availability of cheaper/better alternatives should determine what the numbers are. Supply and demand, not love for the Anointed Ones from Above. Relying on uneducated bureaucrats to administer their arbitrary justice in place of legally-educated experts doesn't sound like the best idea. As for the people who take advantage and screw other people, Ebay buys insurance and protects its users from fraud. We don't need Iosef Stalin to enjoy free markets.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

People should really study the mercantile age to see why Trickle Down Economics doesn't work for society as a whole and why it was regulated heavily as a consequence.

It is possible to build successful mixed economies of controlled markets and social provision which support greater equality and levels of employment. Germany, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, Switzeland to name but a few.

It really isn't true to say that we much accept the utility of a dysfunctional social order for the overall benefit of society. You can have your cake and eat it - a fair but dynamic and productive economy of happy citizens.

Trickle down is failing to meet societies needs now as it did over a hundred years ago. It is cre4ating a situation ripe for social unrest and that will effect everyone in a negative way. Now is the time when markets across the world have seen the greatest deregulation in all history and yet social inequality is at its highest in recent history. the two things are not unrelated.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Guest
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmmm, I don't know anyone personally who sits around and has safeway.com deliver everything to their kitchen table. Are you telling me that hundreds of millions of people are sitting around ordering dinner off of safeway.com? Perhaps I should invest in safeway.com ;)

It was an analogy smartguy. I'm telling you that hundreds of millions of people are getting lazier every year. Go outside and look at your neighborhood, then think back to how it was 10 and 20 years ago. People are lazier today.

I suspect that the Safeway delivery service is doing just fine. There are 1335 stores, and to keep that service online probably you would require at least several dozen purchases per day. So that would be about 50,000 orders per day, or about 20 million orders a year.

I think you should invest in it. It's gone from $20 share 5 years ago to $35 now. That is 15% growth.

What's Safeway? Never even heard of it.

They have 1300 stores. Most are in the US West and Southwest I think.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll have to echo Einsteinium. I don't know anyone who sits around and waits for any such companies to deliver to their kitchen table. If hundreds of millions of Americans are getting lazier that analogy doesn't work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would totally use it. Heck just seeing the crazy stuff my wife gets delivered with Amazon makes me think that Box Stores and grocery stores are going to go the way of the dinosaur.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll have to echo Einsteinium. I don't know anyone who sits around and waits for any such companies to deliver to their kitchen table. If hundreds of millions of Americans are getting lazier that analogy doesn't work.

I read a story the other day about a Company that sold QUARTERS... for renters to use in their Laundry Room. They would automatically deduct $15 a month and mail you $10 in quarters. The company did fail, but not due to lack of customers. It failed due to lack of functional billing software.

QUARTERS!!! People ordering quarters over the internet......

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess it's a good thing, right? Ordering quarters? Getting what you need because there's somebody there waiting to give it to you? That's awesome!

How is that lazy and not resourceful? Are they supposed to get a hammer and anvil and start pounding out their own quarters, in order not to be lazy? I don't get it man.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I read a story the other day about a Company that sold QUARTERS... for renters to use in their Laundry Room. They would automatically deduct $15 a month and mail you $10 in quarters. The company did fail, but not due to lack of customers. It failed due to lack of functional billing software.

QUARTERS!!! People ordering quarters over the internet......

How is this lazy? Most people I know get in their car, drive to the bank drive-through, and get a few rolls of quarters. If they can order quarters online it saves them time that otherwise would have been spent sitting in a car, which is just as lazy as sitting at a computer in my opinion. Now with the extra few minutes of time they have, in theory they could go for a run/walk, bike ride, or workout...not that they will, but having more time available to do constructive things is good, what people choose to do with that time is up to them.

If people have the option of ordering stuff online to save time shopping in actual stores, gas, wear and tear on the car, etc...how is that a bad thing? The bad thing is that people are choosing to use the new time they have to be lazy. That is their choice, we cannot force people to not be lazy.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess it's a good thing, right? Ordering quarters? Getting what you need because there's somebody there waiting to give it to you? That's awesome!

How is that lazy and not resourceful? Are they supposed to get a hammer and anvil and start pounding out their own quarters, in order not to be lazy? I don't get it man.

How hard is it to get quarters? Apparently it is hard enough that paying 150% of value is OK to some.

I bet there is a bank within 2 miles of just about any apartment complex in any major metropolitan area. Some people would rather spend $5 on shipping and handling then walk, or drive, or bus, 4 miles. It would take about an hour and a half to walk to the bank and back... worst case.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How is this lazy? Most people I know get in their car, drive to the bank drive-through, and get a few rolls of quarters. If they can order quarters online it saves them time that otherwise would have been spent sitting in a car, which is just as lazy as sitting at a computer in my opinion. Now with the extra few minutes of time they have, in theory they could go for a run/walk, bike ride, or workout...not that they will, but having more time available to do constructive things is good, what people choose to do with that time is up to them.

If people have the option of ordering stuff online to save time shopping in actual stores, gas, wear and tear on the car, etc...how is that a bad thing? The bad thing is that people are choosing to use the new time they have to be lazy. That is their choice, we cannot force people to not be lazy.

You make a point, though having time available does not mean they use it productively. Plus they have to spend an extra $5.

How is a 10 minute trip down a couple miles to the bank and back worth spending $5? You know who finds that valuable? People who need time dearly, or those who are very lazy.

Edited by DieChecker
Link to comment
Share on other sites

How hard is it to get quarters? Apparently it is hard enough that paying 150% of value is OK to some.

I bet there is a bank within 2 miles of just about any apartment complex in any major metropolitan area. Some people would rather spend $5 on shipping and handling then walk, or drive, or bus, 4 miles. It would take about an hour and a half to walk to the bank and back... worst case.

You go to the convenience store and buy everything for 150% of value and that's okay to some. But why's it not okay to you? So much ado about nothing, broski.

Are you jogging now or something?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You make a point, though having time available does not mean they use it productively. Plus they have to spend an extra $5.

How is a 10 minute trip down a couple miles to the bank and back worth spending $5? You know who finds that valuable? People who need time dearly, or those who are very lazy.

Yes, I agree with that. I certainly would make the trip rather than pay $5 extra dollars! But I can see this type of thing being valuable to the elderly who still live in their own place, people who cannot drive for whatever reason, etc. There are legitimate reasons why some people would find this type of service valuable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

People should really study the mercantile age to see why Trickle Down Economics doesn't work for society as a whole and why it was regulated heavily as a consequence.

It is possible to build successful mixed economies of controlled markets and social provision which support greater equality and levels of employment. Germany, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, Switzeland to name but a few.

It really isn't true to say that we much accept the utility of a dysfunctional social order for the overall benefit of society. You can have your cake and eat it - a fair but dynamic and productive economy of happy citizens.

Trickle down is failing to meet societies needs now as it did over a hundred years ago. It is cre4ating a situation ripe for social unrest and that will effect everyone in a negative way. Now is the time when markets across the world have seen the greatest deregulation in all history and yet social inequality is at its highest in recent history. the two things are not unrelated.

Br Cornelius

You have got to be kidding. How on earth is social inequality the greatest in current history examples please?

I don't see Germany Et all producing any market makers like google, apple, etc etc... You are probably benefitting from it at this moment. It's silly to think the middle class is not benefitting from free markets. The middle class is created by "the rich" and the poor have the opportunity and incentive to become middle class.

I have said it a number of times in these topics. This income inequality is an illusion. Yes there are some rich people out there, but the money concentration people pull their statistics from ( if its even accurate) is held in corporations. Most of them are PUBLICALLY OWNED. What does this mean. It means that the middle class actually OWNES These corporations that concentrate wealth. All your 401ks, mutual funds, and other equity positions are ownership positions in the greedy corporations. So you don't participate in investing.? Sorry, give up the cell phone and star bucks every month and you can do quite nicely for yourself ( not you in particular).

Oh and taxe "loopholes" for the rich... Does anyone even know why we have things like 1041 exchanges and other tax shelters? It's ridiculously the rhetoric of why these things exist that is thrown around. Please please please people before you vote, take a few classes in real economics and don't simply prescribe to the emotional jargon thrown around. Without many very important tax shelters the "rich" really would make it miserable for many of us. Does it sound counter intuitive to suggest that a tax shelter for the wealthy actually improves society? It's not. Does anyone actually know why or can you only see the words "tax shelter"? Them there is fighting words why should anybody shelter the big bad rich people and corporations... By the looks of it there is some severe ignorance out there about the economics of taxation, where the bulk of the wealth actually sits, and how economics really works.

Edited by White Crane Feather
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.