The Part of Us that Died

[SpiritWriter]

Impertinent is the introduction of Far Eastern religions in this discussion,

particularly because you are at liberty to begin your own discussion on the topic.

It is my belief that as a whole in present day we are growing toward intermingling. And I think its great. I do not think any human is different than another in thier capability to get along, nor in the amount of thier own measure of blessings. It is up to us to see that in ourselves and others however.

[aka CAT]

SpiritWriter, I believe in mingling on a voluntary, selective, basis.

Bluefinger, thank you for drawing ambelamba into the conversation

with suggestions of related subjects that might better appeal to him.

ambelamba,

Original sin is acceptably in keeping with the topic of this thread.

Of it, I submit a book other than Genesis that evidences its existence,

i.e. no book, imo, is so depraved as Exodus. It exemplifies egregious

behavior much in the way that Nero personifies perversity itself. Still,

even the worst example does serve as a good example of how much

better it behooves decent folk to politely respect the rights of others,

e.g. their very duty to think for themselves and own their decisions in

order to take self-responsibility for their actions as much as accept the

consequences.

Peace be with y'all.

Edited April 27, 2014 by aka CAT

[Kenemet]

Since the rest of the Bible argues that God is invisible, that could only mean that mankind was made in the invisible image of God; made known by the things that the flesh does.

Actually, portions of the Bible after Genesis and Adam & Eve talk about God's physical appearance:

Ezekiel 1:27 And saw ... the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward....

Amos 7:7 The LORD stood upon a wall made by a plumbline, with a plumbline in his hand.

Habakkuk 3:3-5 God came from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran .... He had horns coming out of his hand.

Isaiah 6:1-5 In the year that King Ussiah died, I saw, also, the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up. (v.1)

1 Kings 22:19 I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.

Exodus 24:9-11 Then went up Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel. And they saw the God of Israel ... They saw God, and did eat and drink.

Exodus 33:11-23 And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend. (v.11)

And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts. (v.23)

(so it's possible to see God's buttocks, according to the Bible.)

Many people in the Bible report seeing God face-to-face:

Judges 13:22 And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Kenemet

[Bluefinger]

I have a feeling that many early Christian sects existed happily without the belief in Original Sin. But they seemed to be unfit to be the basis for a state religion.

Is this just a feeling or do you have any historical content to support this feeling?

I've seen some theologians trying to dig up some really obscure OT-era documents to justify the concept, but then why aren't Jewish people sold on Original Sin? Chances are it did exist but was never popular among Israelite.

Whether Jews are sold to original sin or were sold to original sin are two different questions, the latter being more relevant to early Christianity. Original sin was most certainly an early Christian doctrine, as seen in Romans 5:12-20. There is a historical connection between the city treasurer Erastus, mentioned in Romans 16:23, and an inscription on part of a pavement near the theatre in Corinth; in c. 50 CE (Towns and Gutierrez, 2012, pg. 140).

EDIT: Some of you might have noticed that I use a very conversational writing style, for a non-native speaker. I certainly don't want to sound like some disembodied ghost. So please be considerate if I sound rather unintelligent. As someone who studied acting, I follow Chekov-method (by Michael Chekov, a star student of Stanislavski) and this affected how I convey my emotions through wordings, gestures, and facial expressions. Just sayin'.

I appreciate it Ambelamba, I'll keep that in mind for the future and will adjust accordingly.

Bibliography

Towns, Elmer and Gutierrez, Ben. The Essence of the New Testament: A Survey. Nashville, TN: B&H Publishing Group, 2012.

[ambelamba]

Actually, portions of the Bible after Genesis and Adam & Eve talk about God's physical appearance:

(so it's possible to see God's buttocks, according to the Bible.)

Many people in the Bible report seeing God face-to-face:

Judges 13:22 And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God.

It's a really, really thick book. Layfolks like us can't remember everything, even if we read the Bible over and over again.

And I bolded out the part intentionally. Manoah and his barren wife saw an angel, and say they saw...God. This kind of thing happens a lot in the Bible. The distinction between God and an angel becomes really murky many times. I wonder why.

[Bluefinger]

It's a really, really thick book. Layfolks like us can't remember everything, even if we read the Bible over and over again.

And I bolded out the part intentionally. Manoah and his barren wife saw an angel, and say they saw...God. This kind of thing happens a lot in the Bible. The distinction between God and an angel becomes really murky many times. I wonder why.

I think the Israelites understood that the Angel of the LORD's presence was an ambassador like ambassadors from a distant land. How they treated the ambassador was how they treated the king. Thinking about the movie 300 where king Leonidas kicks the ambassador for Xerxes' kingdom into Sparta's well. That was considered an act of war.

So the angel was not God, but was treated as though he was.

[aka CAT]

The Blessed Virgin Mary beheld the face of Our Lord in a new born child.

His just as lovingly gazing back at her must have been some moment of

recognition. What a sight to behold for the Madonna.

Lacking her grace doesn't stop me from believing that I once witnessed

God's loving hand in the gentle handling of the most delicate of His creation.

And who doesn't, at least, recognize the Holy Spirit in acts of kindness?

[029b10]

In the story of the Garden of Eden in Genesis 2, God told Adam and Eve that they would die if they ate the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Critics say that the story suggests that Adam and Eve did not die. Why?

What does the fruit of the tree of life taste like? I imagine it probably taste like the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. But I don't know because I don't eat the fruit of imaginary trees.

In the second creation account, God first made the flesh out of dirt. Then God breathed life (spirit) into the man and he became a living being (a soul). Christians argue that the part of mankind that does not recognize he is dead is the part of him that actually is dead.

Whosoever is born of God do not sin, neither could we for we are born of God.

If your were born of the Spirit and the Word you would consider the fact that just because you don't believe the truth doesn't make it any more a lie than believing a lie makes it the truth.

The man in Genesis 2 was formed from the rib of the Man. When you see the Father then it wouldn't be so clearly obscured (see: John 6:42)

46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose,

the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

Luke 6:46-48

Edited April 28, 2014 by 029b10

[Frank Merton]

Didn't you know it's an apple?

[Bluefinger]

What does the fruit of the tree of life taste like? I imagine it probably taste like the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. But I don't know because I don't eat the fruit of imaginary trees.

Troll much?

Whosoever is born of God do not sin, neither could we for we are born of God.

If your were born of the Spirit and the Word you would consider the fact that just because you don't believe the truth doesn't make it any more a lie than believing a lie makes it the truth.

The first part seems relevant to the conversation. The second part, not at all. What compelled you to write that?

The man in Genesis 2 was formed from the rib of the Man. When you see the Father then it wouldn't be so clearly obscured (see: John 6:42)

46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose,

the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

Luke 6:46-48

So you're saying that those who do what Jesus commands are those who are born of the Spirit? How is that arguing against what I originally posted?

Edited April 28, 2014 by Bluefinger

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

In the first creation account, mankind was made in God's image. Since the rest of the Bible argues that God is invisible, that could only mean that mankind was made in the invisible image of God; made known by the things that the flesh does. The flesh (body), therefore, acts as a mirror; reflecting the nature of the spirit within. Therefore, a body will produce acts of righteousness if the spirit in him is alive while a body while a body will sin if the spirit in him is dead. Paul argues in Romans that a person who has been made alive in the spirit no longer satisfies the desires of the flesh. This makes sense if the inside man is in control of the outside man. The man has therefore died to sin and has been made alive in the spirit.

Link #1:

http://www.michaelsheiser.com/UFOReligions/Image%20of%20God%20A%20phrase%20found%20several%20times%20in%20the%20book%20of%20Genesis.pdf

[Frank Merton]

Man that guy is boring. Is this a new preaching style? I had not the patience to wait around and see what he had to say. Of course the fact that I even started looking at it was simply because I have some free time. Normally I ignore posts where the poster can't post his own words.

[aka CAT]

The pace was admittedly slow, Frank Merton.

Nonetheless, in fairness to No-thingBornPassion,

the idea of man's being an 'imager' is consistent

with the bible's directing us to benevolently lend

God physical presence.

0:-) MGby'all.

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

Man that guy is boring. Is this a new preaching style? I had not the patience to wait around and see what he had to say. Of course the fact that I even started looking at it was simply because I have some free time. Normally I ignore posts where the poster can't post his own words.

I believe in giving credit and respect where credit and respect are due. Linking is one way of showing my gratitude.

[aka CAT]

No-thingBornPassion,

Better yet, as your sharing inspiration with us required courtesy on your part,

you-- 0:-) MGby-- succeeded in giving physical expression to Our Father.

Thank you.

All,

Returning to “The Part of Us that Died” in direct regard to “The Story of Eden,” another version of the same verses Bluefinger supplied us:

NAB - Genesis 2: 16 -17

16

The LORD God gave man this order: "You are free to eat from any of the trees of the garden

17

except the tree of knowledge of good and bad. From that tree you shall not eat; the moment you eat from it you are surely doomed to die."

Evidently, it is vain to cease to trust in God. It is to subject oneself to temptation, sin and, by thus incurring evil, risk becoming forever lost.

Conversely, one’s practice as an ‘imager’ of God is potentially miraculous.

Re: Our Father versus one’s father/mother

Since the Garden of Eden was home to the first children of God,

how do Adam and Eve compare to their newest descendants?

Babies are postnatally slow to perceive themselves separate

from their mothers, whom are initially regarded extensions of

themselves. No sooner do they realize themselves individual

than they are ever striving for greater independence. It is part

of maturation; yet, for all of the role playing and imitating that

they will do in the meantime, each will give personalized

expression to their parentage.

Edited April 30, 2014 by aka CAT

[aka CAT]

[...] In Revelation, it is stated that there will be a new heavens and a new earth.

This suggests an infinite duration or an eternal present just like what you are implying.

Even beyond the Garden of Eden’s having been home to the first children of God,

I am very interested in everything biblically stated in regard to "new heavens and a new earth."

Edited April 30, 2014 by aka CAT

[Copen]

In the story of the Garden of Eden in Genesis 2, God told Adam and Eve that they would die if they ate the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Critics say that the story suggests that Adam and Eve did not die. Why?

In the second creation account, God first made the flesh out of dirt. Then God breathed life (spirit) into the man and he became a living being (a soul). Christians argue that the part of mankind that does not recognize he is dead is the part of him that actually is dead. The flesh recognizes it is alive while the spirit does not. This can be argued another way.

In the first creation account, mankind was made in God's image. Since the rest of the Bible argues that God is invisible, that could only mean that mankind was made in the invisible image of God; made known by the things that the flesh does. The flesh (body), therefore, acts as a mirror; reflecting the nature of the spirit within. Therefore, a body will produce acts of righteousness if the spirit in him is alive while a body while a body will sin if the spirit in him is dead. Paul argues in Romans that a person who has been made alive in the spirit no longer satisfies the desires of the flesh. This makes sense if the inside man is in control of the outside man. The man has therefore died to sin and has been made alive in the spirit.

What do you think? What spiritual status does your body reflect? Life or death? Why?

The first creation of male and female-God spoke them into being. The only image we have of God is man. Man has a body of flesh (image of Jesus in a body), with a heart (image of the Spirit of God the Father), and with a soul -mind, emotions ( image of Holy Spirit).

God blessed the male and female to multiply. God is the same yesterday, today and forever. Therefore, the only way they could be blessed to multiply without the sin of incest is for there to have been at least two male and female created. This was done on Day Six. Six is Gods number in the Bible for Gentiles. The God that spoke these into being was Elohim (God in the plural and implied Triune). That is how the Gentile New Testament Church know Him today.

After the seventh day of rest Jehovah God (on Day Eight) started another creation. That is primarily how they know God as Jehovah. This time He did not speak him into being. He formed him with His hand like a potter with a lump of clay. This was Adam, the first Jew. Next God created domestic animals. Next God created the trees of the garden and gave Adam instructions about not eating the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Eva had not been created!!!! Romans 5:14 says Adam was a foreshadow of Jesus. Therefore, Adam was a type of mediator between God and his bride (foreshadow of the church).

Adam lied and said to Eva if you TOUCH the fruit you will die. Eva was deceived by Adam, but Adam was not deceived. He knew what God had actually said. (When God,s word is changed to what you want it to say, you are violating God.) The devil knew Adam lied to Eva. He always attacks at the weakest point, where sin is. The lie was the second sin. Sin was already present because Adam was naked and did not know to be ashamed because he did not have the knowledge of good and evil. When they ate the fruit their eyes were opened and they died just as God said that very same day. They died to sin and self righteousness. God did not say they would being to die but it would take almost 1,000 years to do so. He said the very same day they ate the fruit they would die. Credit Eva with giving us the knowledge of good and evil. If sin is already present -wouldn't God want you to have the knowledge of good and evil?

Eva was formed from the gash in Adam's side. The church was created from the pierced gash in Jesus's side. Right away when Adam received his bride, he stated that incest was a sin. Man must leave father and mother to get a wife and they will become one by cleaving to her.

Gentiles women have always been grafted into the Jewish line just as the Gentiles have been grafted into the Jewish religion. Cain married a Gentile woman. And the sons of God (descendants of Adan) married the daughters of men (Gentiles) all whom they chose.

God bless

Edited May 26, 2014 by Copen