The Flood Waters

[Doug1029]

Long before it was written down, it was spoken at the camp fire at night, for the purpose of teaching. As noted, they probably did believe it was history as well, but I don't think that should affect the interpretation today.

~ Regards,

If the dates of 2917 and 2807 BC for The Flood are anywhere near accurate, then it was at least 2200 years from the time of the event to the time the Bible was written. That's an awful long time for a legend to survive by verbal transmission, especially as written Hebrew didn't even exist until about 930 BC and spoken Hebrew came into existence about the time of Ramses the Great. It seems to me that survivors of the Babylonian Captivity would have heard flood stories in Babylon that had been preserved in writing. Perhaps these were retold verbally then re-recorded, but if they had not been preserved in writing, we would probably not have those stories today.

Was it history? That depends on how you define "history." But they seem to be a garbled account of a real event.

Doug

[calaf]

What???

So I have been using Leviticus 14 to treat skin disease, and household mold all this time in vain?

Did it work?

[Davros of Skaro]

Did it work?

No.I did not have any Faith.

[MissionAtlantis]

The flood myth has been done to death, but there is so much at odds in the story that it simply cannot be accepted as being an actual event.

Have you noticed how, when it rains, the temperature is generally warmer than on a cloudy, but dry, day? This is because the falling water droplets heat up the atmosphere. Calculations show that, if we are to accept the case of 40 days and nights of rain - along with ground water rising - such that the entire planet could be flooded to such a depth as described, the heating of the atmosphere due to this precipitation would have reached in the thousands of degrees centigrade.

The only possible way to justify the events as depicted in the story, are to claim - as the story does - that some omnipotent deity 'fixed' things so that none of the events contradicted any natural laws. That being the case, you then have to ask yourself "Why flood the planet to rid it of living things? Why not just wave a godly hand and 'magic' them out of existence?"

To such a being, using natural forces of disaster such as floods is entirely unnecessary - leading to the inescapable conclusion the story was invented by men, using what is known - and known that men fear, to make an impression.

Leonardo, you say a great deal that makes sense, here. But you miss a few steps and throw in some logical fallacies to balance things out. Oops!

You said, "...it simply cannot be accepted as being an actual event." This is an argument to ignorance type logical fallacy. Your third paragraph brings your argument some redemption, but it, too, falls short. You use your lack of understanding as a reason to disbelieve. Not very logical. Could Creator of the Universe have had a reason you don't yet understand? Could some of the story be literal, and some metaphor? We don't know.

I like your second paragraph on temperature, up to a point, but then you blow it by saying "...in the thousands of degrees centigrade." Why? Temperature increases like that are non-linear, because you have multiple effects going on. You will never achieve boiling temperatures from long rains, much less thousands of degrees. Bogus. Your skepticism slipped a cog.

Skeptics have such a fun time ignoring the rules of debate and seem to think it's perfectly okay to throw in as many logical fallacies as they feel like using. Not good.

Why do I belabor this topic? Simply because we now have evidence in support of Noah's Flood. There are still many questions and many problems to be addressed, but they cannot be whisked away on our own limited understanding of the universe and our mania for skepticism and unsupported dismissiveness.

The literal biblical timeline is flat-out wrong. Science has known this for over a century. So, if the Flood was a real event, and the Bible has a real timeline in it, then a new interpretation is needed to understand what was originally intended by the stories therein. My new book covers this material in detail -- The Bible's Hidden Wisdom: God's Reason for Noah's Flood. What's amazing is that we now have the target of the Flood -- a species which went extinct at the new Flood date and this species is even described in Genesis 6. This species threatened God's purpose for humans. They no longer exist. And the very special kind of wickedness and violence that other species brought to Earth disappeared with the Flood.

Was the Flood a real, worldwide inundation of water? We don't know, yet. Could the "water" have merely been a metaphor for something about which there is no earthly word? But we cannot discard such things simply because we don't understand them or don't yet have evidence. For those things we don't know, we need to be capable of merely saying, "I don't know." We need to stay open for new evidence.

[MissionAtlantis]

... I'm comfortable with who I am, and I'm comfortable with the God I believe in and love. The rest, I'm just here to learn more about my own beliefs, learn about what others believe, and if someone learns something from me in return, then all the better for it.

I don't "enjoy" arguing just for the sake of arguing, as some people join simply to prove themselves right or prove others wrong. To me, that is not what makes this board my favourite website forum to contribute to. But that's just me, I suppose.

Amen! Those who can subdue their egos are open to learning new things. I liken it to the "empty cup" of eastern lore. The readiness to receive answers is not easy for some. They would rather tell others what to think.

On these forums, it's hard to find people who are genuinely givers and sharers. They exist, yes! Bless them. If only there were some way to wake up the Ego-infested mind and to instill in it the child-like awe and humility to learn new things -- not tossing out skepticism entirely, but keeping the more benign parts -- restraint, humility and a hunger for answers.

No one knows everything, but you wouldn't know that from the opinions some espouse. A mind with an Ego is a terrible waste. A mind without an Ego is a tool of enlightened spirit.

If we could put all that brain power to work investigating, rather than spewing shallow, cut-and-paste inanities, then we might have some brilliant discoveries to share.... Would be nice.

[Doug1029]

Was the Flood a real, worldwide inundation of water? We don't know, yet.

There simply isn't enough water for a world-wide flood. If one area gets wet, another has to dry out to compensate.

That being said, there likely was a humongous flood in the Near East, maybe even several in different parts of the world, spread over perhaps a century or more.

Like you said: there's a awful lot still to be learned. I have already identified an ice storm signature in shortleaf pines and am just starting to refine the flood signature for pin oaks. If we can find wood that dates to the correct time, we can see the signature of the flood in the anatomy of the cells, and possibly, a spatial pattern in the growth rings (maybe). There are already about 20 chronologies that date back 5000 years or more. Perhaps we can identify a flood signature in them.

What if that signature occurs in the same year in all 20? That is what one would expect of a world-wide flood. If we find that, some textbooks may need to be re-written. But what if we don't? Then we conclude that Noah's Flood is a myth. At any rate, we may have a way to falsify the story. And you can't ask for better evidence.

Doug