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Singing songs of worship in church


GoldenWolf

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This all speaks to your own emotional state and relationship to the world around you, than to objective reality. Just examine the language you are using, and the negative beliefs behind that language.

I don't want to get too personal so lets take a hypothetical.

Suppose you were a person who was depressed and negative a lot Then suppose you came to believe this was due to the influence of people or organisations draining your energy That is an untrue, negative, self perpetuating belief, which prevents you from seeing the true situation. Such a person should either talk to a professional or use an online tool like mind gym or mood gym (More psychologically based on depression and low self esteem) to understand why they have this state of mind and how it can be overcome.

I'm trying to get people to understand it's a negative influence on everyone, I've already mastered my emotions, I didn't need help from others. I care about about the world, and most life forms, I guess the only logical conclusion is to not care at all about any of the people of the abrahamic religions at all, if you're thirsty, don't expect water from me. It takes water to make seeds grow, not fire.

Edited by Mystic Crusader
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It's been said that fire turns everything it touches into itself. Everything consumed by fire becomes the fire. I see that as a metaphor for the change in a person's life when they encounter the Holy Spirit.

I'll occasionally burn off my hayfield. The fire appears hellish and violent, but the renewal afterwards is almost breathtaking. The ashes become nutrients for the new growth, the weeds are cleaned out, and the new grass looks greener and healthier than ever.

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I'm trying to get people to understand it's a negative influence on everyone, I've already mastered my emotions, I didn't need help from others. I care about about the world, and most life forms, I guess the only logical conclusion is to not care at all about any of the people of the abrahamic religions at all, if you're thirsty, don't expect water from me. It takes water to make seeds grow, not fire.

To the bolded: this is not always true. There's a whole ecology with fire. Some plants require fire to be able to reproduce or establish themselves. Yes, water is helpful as well to these plants, but for some, all the water in the world will not help if they are not subjected to fire first.

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I hear that song, I think of millions of people who have died by being inspired by the bible(s)

That song can only be viewed that way by someone with an utterly closed mind. That is your prerogative but when a person disregards the comfort such a song gives to millions then it says much more about that individual's state of mind than about those who treasure the song. No harm, no foul - we all make choices. If their's gives them peace then all is well, yes?
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Here is another perspective for you guys, has Israel ever been truly reborn? They are one of the most militant countries in the world (an analogy to fire), they practically hate every country in the middle east, and just about every country in the middle east hates them, they are constantly at war with Palestine, it's hate in abundance.

Think of the song Fight fire with fire by Metallica. For the most part, they are consumed by hate.

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To the bolded: this is not always true. There's a whole ecology with fire. Some plants require fire to be able to reproduce or establish themselves. Yes, water is helpful as well to these plants, but for some, all the water in the world will not help if they are not subjected to fire first.

But it destroys the first seed, you must plant another seed. If you give the second seed fire it will die also, and the third, Fire always destroys, it is malevolent in nature. It can be subdued but never tamed.

That song can only be viewed that way by someone with an utterly closed mind. That is your prerogative but when a person disregards the comfort such a song gives to millions then it says much more about that individual's state of mind than about those who treasure the song. No harm, no foul - we all make choices. If their's gives them peace then all is well, yes?

I am closed minded to a bloodthirsty mass murderer. The death count from people being killed by theocrates inspired has more than likely reached past a one hundred million now, maybe even 2 or 3, and the slaughter continues.

Edited by Mystic Crusader
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Here's for you MC...

John 15:6

If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Sent from Hell

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So the point of this thread was to convert people from their religion by showing how evil it is.

Look, hate and fear brews in men because they have hate and fear brewing in them. No book or belief system caused this. The people you speak of who are always warring will still be warring if they changed or removed their religion or values. It is how they've chosen and learned to live and act. The book/belief was just a translated catalyst to the negative traits (of which there can be any number of catalysts). The sooner you realize this, the sooner you will hopefully begin to hate your fellow man a little less, and understand him a little more, whether you like what you understand or not.

But I understand that some, through their own predispositions, aren't wanting to learn, but to find further ways to disapprove. But that will ultimately get you nowhere, I believe.

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But it destroys the first seed, you must plant another seed. If you give the second seed fire it will die also, and the third, Fire always destroys, it is malevolent in nature. It can be subdued but never tamed.

Where did the first seed ever, and all else that has ever existed on this planet, originate from in space? How was this planet created?

And what sustains our plants and life on this planet?

What keeps the world from being a giant ice planet devoid of life?

Goodness, gracious, great balls of fire.

Edited by _Only
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Here is something that might make you guy's understand where I'm coming from:

Think of Mark 8:36

King James Bible

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

episcopalchurchva_3_vert-bfe912fd842f99679f4531c23092e41949222e0a-s6-c30.jpg

The king without a land, and the land without a king.

Edited by Mystic Crusader
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I'm trying to get people to understand it's a negative influence on everyone, I've already mastered my emotions, I didn't need help from others. I care about about the world, and most life forms, I guess the only logical conclusion is to not care at all about any of the people of the abrahamic religions at all, if you're thirsty, don't expect water from me. It takes water to make seeds grow, not fire.

But it is NOT a negative influence on everyone. Because it is a negative influence on you, you think it must be so for all people but it is not Most people enjoy their religious and spiritual experiences and find them uplifting and empowering. Religion IS empowering and liberating. It frees a human being from almost all tyrannies in the world including the tyranny of materialism. The Abrahamic religions are particularly so. They free people from guilt, anger, fear, hate, and promote love, forgiveness, joy and peace. (but humans being humans twist any belief structure to their own ends and needs. A person who wants to hate will use religion to justify their hate while a person who wants to love will find love in religion)

You do not have any responsibility to people of other beliefs.If a person is empowered and happy in their belief, then it is working for them.

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Here is something that might make you guy's understand where I'm coming from:

Think of Mark 8:36

King James Bible

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

episcopalchurchva_3_vert-bfe912fd842f99679f4531c23092e41949222e0a-s6-c30.jpg

The king without a land, and the land without a king.

The first quote is excellent. it demonstrates the danger of materialism without spiritual wisdom. What is the good of having huge wealth and being miserable, with a shrivelled, hateful, mean spirited soul? Better to have nothing, but be filled with happiness and joy because your soul is at peace, and you are right with the world.

The second is more complex, but outlines the dangers of a land without firm moral authority (represented in the old days by a king) To be safe and prosper, a society or land needs good and wise governance. This was seen a s a reciprocal arrangement where the king organised and protected the people, who in turn served him in this role. The king need his people, as much as his people needed him.

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The second is more complex, but outlines the dangers of a land without firm moral authority (represented in the old days by a king) To be safe and prosper, a society or land needs good and wise governance. This was seen a s a reciprocal arrangement where the king organised and protected the people, who in turn served him in this role. The king need his people, as much as his people needed him.

Think about this really hard, if I say it out-right you probably wouldn't believe me, go back through the posts, and think about it for at least 15-30 minutes.

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But it is NOT a negative influence on everyone. Because it is a negative influence on you, you think it must be so for all people but it is not Most people enjoy their religious and spiritual experiences and find them uplifting and empowering. Religion IS empowering and liberating. It frees a human being from almost all tyrannies in the world including the tyranny of materialism. The Abrahamic religions are particularly so. They free people from guilt, anger, fear, hate, and promote love, forgiveness, joy and peace. (but humans being humans twist any belief structure to their own ends and needs. A person who wants to hate will use religion to justify their hate while a person who wants to love will find love in religion)

You do not have any responsibility to people of other beliefs.If a person is empowered and happy in their belief, then it is working for them.

A person who wants to love or hate doesn't need religion to do so. Religion is the opiate of the people. It's only purpose is to keep the dominated in line promising them treasures in heaven for being a good slave today
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Think about this really hard, if I say it out-right you probably wouldn't believe me, go back through the posts, and think about it for at least 15-30 minutes.

I don't have to think about it. I know from history and language that this is what the reference refers to. It also transposes the reciprocal relationship of king and commoner to that between god and man, where god provides everything for us and we in turn follow him. In medieval times, and for centuries afterwards, kings ruled by divine right, where their power and authority was seen to be granted by god, and was thus inalienable and non negotiable..

If you have a different interpretation, I would be interested in it, but it is not what the words were written to mean.

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A person who wants to love or hate doesn't need religion to do so. Religion is the opiate of the people. It's only purpose is to keep the dominated in line promising them treasures in heaven for being a good slave today

Of course people love and hate independent of religion. That is what I was saying But religions, especially the bible, tell us the benefits of love and why we should love, forgive, not judge etc.

Ahhh. The old furphy about "opiate of the people" Even if true, opiates serve a proper purpose and useful function when prescribed and administered by qualified personnel . But religion is much more a bionic enhancement than an opiate. It doesn't drug people. It empowers the potential which exists in all people and motivates them to greatness. That is why the richest, most powerful, and best educated people in Australia mostly send their kids to religious schools; to enhance their prospects in work and community/life. Religion has nothing to do with heaven and all to do with organising and living lives happily and productively today, as well as organising society to the benefit of all including the weakest and least powerful.

How exactly does religion enslave in the modern world? in fact it tends to set people free from enslavement, to material things, from drugs and alcohol, from destructive cultural and peer influences and even from organisations and government. It sets a person free from fear, anger, hate, lust, envy, greed, and allows one to live a full and contented life close to others, in a loving and harmonious relationship. It stops you from lieing, cheating, stealing or hurting others. If religion never did all of this for you, then you were following the wrong one.

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The first quote is excellent. it demonstrates the danger of materialism without spiritual wisdom. What is the good of having huge wealth and being miserable, with a shrivelled, hateful, mean spirited soul? Better to have nothing, but be filled with happiness and joy because your soul is at peace, and you are right with the world.

The second is more complex, but outlines the dangers of a land without firm moral authority (represented in the old days by a king) To be safe and prosper, a society or land needs good and wise governance. This was seen a s a reciprocal arrangement where the king organised and protected the people, who in turn served him in this role. The king need his people, as much as his people needed him.

With the way cross (which symbolizes a sword) is, think of Excalibur in the ground.

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With the way cross (which symbolizes a sword) is, think of Excalibur in the ground.

While the shape of a sword is often seen as symbolic of a cross, it is not. It is simply a design function of a practical weapon of war. Warriors often had their swords blessed and did use the sword hilt as a cross when they had no other cruciform object, but the sword design predates the concept of a cross in Christian terms and is simply designed to stop the opponents blade from sliding down your blade and cutting your fingers or hand off.

Like wise, the cross was designed as a practical and functional way of inflicting death, and significantly a death involving extreme pain and suffering over an extended period.. The connection between the two doesn't exist except in human perception. While the first swords were originally designed for thrusting or stabbing eg the roman gladius and did not need much of a hilt, the hilt evolved as sword fighting developed into cut and thrust manoeuvres.

Edited by Mr Walker
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With the way cross (which symbolizes a sword) is, think of Excalibur in the ground.

If Excalibur had existed, it would likely have been more like a Roman calvary spatha. This kind of sword does not have a crossguard of any type. It's just a handle with a blade.

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Praising god is awesome, raising your hands is being in submission or a physical display of channeling energy with the divine. Praising God is one of the best church practices because it doesn't involve any outside rhetoric, it is personal for the worshiper. It is very peaceful, transformational and educational. :) I love it.

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If Excalibur had existed, it would likely have been more like a Roman calvary spatha. This kind of sword does not have a crossguard of any type. It's just a handle with a blade.

Maybe it was Ramses (they say he was very proficient with a sword) who wielded the sword, maybe not Excalibur, but a blade of power. Think about it. Imagine something like Ramses actually being Arthur, and Gwynevere being the land.

Edited by Mystic Crusader
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But it destroys the first seed, you must plant another seed. If you give the second seed fire it will die also, and the third, Fire always destroys, it is malevolent in nature. It can be subdued but never tamed.

Fire can destroy some seed, so can water. But some plants do require fire scarification. They need the fire to burn their outer shell before they can germinate. Some plants require smoke or char from fire as a chemical scarification. There is a whole group of plants that are dependent on fire to germinate, grow, flourish. Chapparals are noted for needing thermal scarification.

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Maybe it was Ramses (they say he was very proficient with a sword) who wielded the sword, maybe not Excalibur, but a blade of power. Think about it. Imagine something like Ramses actually being Arthur, and Gwynevere being the land.

Ramses sword didn't have a crossguard either. Actually it's more of a hunting knife than a sword with a wedge blade instead of a straight blade. Old Egyptian swords are kopeshes, which has a hilt with no crossguard and a sickle shaped blade instead of a straight blade.

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While the shape of a sword is often seen as symbolic of a cross, it is not

I actually heard from a preacher in a church, that the cross did represent a sword. Yes I did go to church a few times, not really to worship, but to learn how they think, and if there was any useful information, to learn it (which was very little to me).

Edited by Mystic Crusader
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I actually heard from a preacher in a church, that the cross did represent a sword. Yes I did go to church a few times, not really to worship, but to learn how they think, and if there was any useful information, to learn it (which was very little to me).

The pulpit is a place where a preacher gets the opportunity to explain his own philosophies. Some of the philosophies are shared, but by in large their are the preachers own interpretations and also very metaphoric. Metaphors can be thought of in so many ways. It is like poetry. It is for your contemplation. Many people seem to be stuck on the literal so much, including the church, that they cannot get past it. Religious metaphors open up our way of thinking and understanding.

They say the bible is like a double edged sword.... I agree with that.

but its not to literally kill people with

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