Do you hope for life outside this planet?

[Just Dave]

Hope he said... Life is out there as fact.. most people are just too ignorant to understand that.. Good example is sea life in depths of 3kms or more. I think whatever we find, it will be bad for them not for us... look at our history, our culture, in average there are more violent events per day than good or pleasant ones... Whatever humankind will find it will rain terror on them. Slowly escalating to a point of destruction. This is economically or military speaking/writing.

[Frank Merton]

The idea of a runaway global warming where increases in CO2 create a chain reaction of more and more increases, converting the Earth into a Venus, is something that entered my head some time ago. I've never seen any discussion of it in the scientific literature, neither to propose it nor to explain reasons it wouldn't happen. It does worry me along with a couple other scenarios that I fear no one is paying any attention to because if it happens there is nothing we could do anyway. Best to look at those scenarios that maybe could be prevented.

[Nenaraz]

I find that the alien life doesn't necessarily have to be dependent on technological advancement. What we consider spiritual, multidimensional, "sightings" et cetera can all be pretty much just certain aspects of reality that we didn't fathom, yet, thanks to the obstacles.

If we go by the logic that all civilizations have to abide by the somewhat chaotically random rules of our planet and understandings of science (furthermore diminished by the animal nature of the human species), the aliens wouldn't look like us and they'd be adjusted as life-forms to their own habitat.

Given the nature of such a long trip it would take, they'd need generations of travels and would quite probably need some alternative source of energy. If they'd arrive on earth they'd just be happy to be here in the same way that a thirsty man is happy to get some water on a hot sunny day. Besides that, virology. The interchangeable orientation of the alien lifeforms would most certainly be an unpleasant one given the warlike nature of the major forces and the disunity of people.

So, no, bad idea to have aliens around because humans are not ready.

As for the life outside this planet, why would it be wrong to hope that there's such a thing? Given just how harsh the nature is to the life-forms it's always a fight for survival no matter how you look at it. From the simplest particle up to the most complex living organisms, It's a major game of math, but I think that life should prevail in its biological form. I'm against the drastically imposed trans-humanistic ideas.

However I'm certain that if Humans would go to the space, they wouldn't be "humans" anymore.

[scowl]

Very valid point Frank but could human arrogance about our own 'uniqueness' be holding us back from realising the potential of life to overcome adversity.

Could our desire to not be unique be holding us back from realizing how unique we are? There are people who desperately want life to exist somewhere else in the universe and preferably some place close to Earth. Why? What difference would it make?

Even beyond the realms of what we know and understand.

Let's take a look at what we do know and understand. The universe is for the most part a harsh place with extremes of temperature, pressure, and radiation. Life has to overcome these conditions somehow. Earth has provided a place that minimizes these extremes to an incredible degree.

Life seems to have appeared on the earth almost the moment conditions were tolerable (geologically speaking). That indicates either it took very little time for life to evolve or we were seeded (maybe via an asteroid knocking rocks off Mars since Mars had had cooler conditions much earlier) or maybe life is out there all the time seeding us all the time (this seems unlikely as comets we have studied seems sterile).

How did geological conditions create life? Clearly there are lots of steps missing here!

This leads to the idea that simple life is easy to evolve and happens quickly almost anywhere (although remember the statistical sample is only one).

You're leaving out a lot of other factors that went into the spawning of life. For example, if simple life happens quickly why didn't new forms of life continue to spawn? There should be hundreds of forms of life leading back to independent creations. We haven't found any. Everything indicates that only one form of life was created and all subsequent life evolved from that. This suggests that the spawning of life here on Earth was a singular event caused by an event or a short period of conditions.

If instead we're seeing the one sole survivor of hundreds of life forms that spawned then that is also not good news: life on Earth was close to being exterminated and by luck one happened to survive. One fact that most people ignore is that nothing says that life must exist forever. We've been lucky to have ideal conditions here on Earth for the past billion years but there's nothing that says that has to be a common occurrence. It may be far more common for life to exist on planets for a few million years and then die off, either by external conditions or by life simply consuming all resources of a planet.

But then nothing much happened for three or so billion years until multicellular life appeared. That is most of the time life here has existed. Why the delay? Maybe multicellular life is real hard to evolve and doesn't happen unless conditions are near perfect. Hard to say. Maybe biochemistry within the cell had to evolve that we don't now know about.

That's a good point and another part of the puzzle that so many people ignore. They just assume that unicellular life must evolve to multicellular life then that must evolve to large organisms with arms and legs and brains and that must evolve into intelligent beings. It may be more common for life to remain boring unicellular life. We know here on Earth that bacteria can survive in conditions that would kill multicelluar life.

[S2F]

That's a good point and another part of the puzzle that so many people ignore. They just assume that unicellular life must evolve to multicellular life then that must evolve to large organisms with arms and legs and brains and that must evolve into intelligent beings. It may be more common for life to remain boring unicellular life. We know here on Earth that bacteria can survive in conditions that would kill multicelluar life.

Bacteria was around long before any other life and will be here long after. It is without a doubt that the most common form of life to be found anywhere is going to be of the single cell variety. That doesn't particularly exclude higher forms of life, including intelligent life being found however it is entirely possible that the universe could be teeming with life with nary an existential thought to be found outside Earth. I don't believe that to be the case but I can't deny it as a possibility.

[psyche101]

while this is true in general now, didn't early life on earth start to develop in far worse conditions (in terms of exposure to radiation, temperature extremes, etc)? i'm not holding out for complex lifeforms existing everywhere, but microbes can be quite robust.

A lot of life still hangs around those black smokers but not in it, one might wonder why life is drawn to such a dangerous source of sustenance. If life did form deep underground, and making it to the bottom of an ocean, perhaps that "Proto life" form still feeds these creatures that live by such a seemingly inhospitable formation.

[seaturtlehorsesnake]

those vents are interesting because they're an example of how an environment that is extremely inhospitable to most life (the deep ocean) can have areas within it that are very supportive of life. so even if most of the planets and moons that exist are in general very dangerous for life, could it still be possible for them to have localized environments that are much safer?

i'm still mainly talking about microbial life here. honestly, if we found single-celled life forms on another planet or moon, that would still be amazing. i don't see why people think of that as a "lesser" discovery.

[psyche101]

those vents are interesting because they're an example of how an environment that is extremely inhospitable to most life (the deep ocean) can have areas within it that are very supportive of life. so even if most of the planets and moons that exist are in general very dangerous for life, could it still be possible for them to have localized environments that are much safer?

i'm still mainly talking about microbial life here. honestly, if we found single-celled life forms on another planet or moon, that would still be amazing. i don't see why people think of that as a "lesser" discovery.

I agree entirely, but one has to wonder, why that environment for life? And why so much? Which leads me to think perhaps life started underground, and UV might have been the catalyst. I cannot think why else so much small life would be there unless there was a great deal more small food as well. But nothing we recognise, but we do not know what proto life looks like. It's all fun to think about and theorise.

I honestly do not know if life can exist on the moons, I got all excited about Europa myself, but the extreme cold is a bug hurdle for the planet to overcome, and then all that deadly radiation. They say the ice is sufficient, but the best of the best also say that the forces the would allow liquid water would make the place tidal, with ice slushing up into large crevices on the surface with the tides, which strikes me as a great way to transport radioactive material below the ice. Maybe under Europa we might see nothing, or Godzilla. Who knows, but I think the chances are slimmer than they are likely. I do not see life evolving on the face if Titan, as the atmosphere is so thick that even though life may survive it we are back to the temperature problems. If we do find life in our solar system, it will be an even bigger miracle than many realise I think.

[Frank Merton]

As I understand it life spreads to new environments even though they are less than optimal in order to get away from predators and parasites, who have their own problems living there. Eventually they adapt but of course also eventually the predators and parasites adapt too.

[scowl]

those vents are interesting because they're an example of how an environment that is extremely inhospitable to most life (the deep ocean) can have areas within it that are very supportive of life.

The vents are hardly inhospitable, actually they pretty pleasant compared to conditions around the solar system. Life doesn't live directly in the vents but around the vents. They die in temperatures above around 175F so it's not wildly different from other places where life is found.

so even if most of the planets and moons that exist are in general very dangerous for life, could it still be possible for them to have localized environments that are much safer?

But what would be causing the localized environments and what would be preventing them from changing?

[seaturtlehorsesnake]

i know that the vents are hospitable, that's part of what i was saying: that they're oases of safety in a generally unsafe environment. having said that...

But what would be causing the localized environments and what would be preventing them from changing?

i don't have an answer to this. i think i've been speculating too much. i've been doing a lot of reading about early life on earth, so i'm going to keep doing that.

[theotherguy]

Why does an alien intelligence need a home planet in the first place? Maybe I've been reading too much bad sci-fi, but could life have originated on an interstellar asteroid or something?

Edited May 12, 2014 by theotherguy

[seeder]

Why does an alien intelligence need a home planet in the first place? Maybe I've been reading too much bad sci-fi, but could life have originated on an interstellar asteroid or something?

Atmosphere, low radiation, water, gravity, and a sun... are not commonly found on/around asteroids

[psyche101]

As I understand it life spreads to new environments even though they are less than optimal in order to get away from predators and parasites, who have their own problems living there. Eventually they adapt but of course also eventually the predators and parasites adapt too.

True, but the word abundance is bandied about with regards to Black Smoker environments, they are rich in chemicals, which supports tiny life. Life feeds from those sources which cannot support life. It's seems to be connected to me.

[DONTEATUS]

As Long as we can Dream it We Will See it !

IMO Life is Out there So Out there were quite Safe for Now !

[theotherguy]

Atmosphere, low radiation, water, gravity, and a sun... are not commonly found on/around asteroids

Not commonly found at the ocean floor, except for the water and gravity, but new life is being found there almost monthly.

Wait, I'm just making excuses.

[scowl]

Not commonly found at the ocean floor, except for the water and gravity, but new life is being found there almost monthly.

And the low radiation. Also found at the ocean floor is stuff to eat thanks to gravity. The temperatures are also steadier there than above the ocean.

[Gomar]

If there were indeed aliens with capable tech to travel to Earth they would surely have been here if not hundreds of millions of years ago, but even 200 years ago.

I havent seen lately alien tourists walking around.

[mythological_explorer]

For some reason, i'm more inclined to believe the Multiverse Theory rather than flat out "Aliens" who share no dna with us at all. Parallel worlds just seems to make more sense. I believe in some alternate parallel dimension, time travel is possible and the "Aliens" that we have heard about for so long are in fact humans from another version of our world. Judging by the way people treat eachother on this planet, it kind of explains why these "aliens" do such messed up things to the people they abduct as we all know if a real "alien" was found on this planet the first thing the government would do is slice it open just to study its biology. Human curiosity can be a deadly thing.

[Frank Merton]

Getting from star system to star system is hard, but is a stroll compared to how hard getting from universe to universe is gonna be.

[toast]

Do you hope for life outside this planet? Does anyone think that there could be life? would it be better? or worse?

We have one proven model of the existence of life in the universe, so it has to be rated that the universe

itself does not exclude the option for the development of life in general, on the contrary, the universe supports

the development of life by its own characteristics and potentials. So the question should be on what kind of

model the option for the development for extraterrestrial life might be, or can be, excluded in general but the

answer is still given; it cannot be excluded based on the empiric informations available.

Edited May 16, 2014 by toast

[Frank Merton]

What are the chances that nature contrives it that the only possible advanced life is very much like us? Several times a case on paper in favor of that idea has been made, but of course always is criticized on the grounds that theory can mislead when the data is so sparse.

Still, it is hard to imagine organic molecules not based on complex carbon chains in liquid water for a start, and of course oxygen breathing is the most efficient, and bilateral symmetry and upright posture with hands with opposable thumbs and focusing eyes and so on. It's a possibility we should not rule out.