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"The F-35 is a Lemon. It's a Turkey"


Yamato

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58 minutes ago, and then said:

That was the point I was trying make.  It represents total situational awareness and maximized coordination of response to it. I can say ONE thing for sure, if it IS the pig everyone else seems to believe, Lockheed Martin is toast.

so it's enormously over-elaborate (and of course enormously over-expensive) for any use any of the customers Washington has foisted it on/bribed to buy it would realistically be likely to need, isn't it. Is, as i said before, total situational awareness and maximized coordination of response really necessary to bomb Palestinians?

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3 hours ago, and then said:

That was the point I was trying make.  It represents total situational awareness and maximized coordination of response to it. I can say ONE thing for sure, if it IS the pig everyone else seems to believe, Lockheed Martin is toast.

Nah i don't think that describing the F-35 as a pig is fair. The thing is that what the F-35 is trying to do is re-invent the fighter. Somewhere along the line the  pentagon and the manufactures have over designed and built the next gen fighter. Its over kill as not even Russia or China pose a threat with any of their current or future offerings that can't easily be countered by the U.S. I think the F-35 is built to keep American allies close and integrated into the American war machine more than to counter any threat. 

So maybe that should be the bench mark that the F-35 to be judged on and not whether it can fight a 80's 'top gun' style dogfight on its own. 

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2 hours ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

so it's enormously over-elaborate (and of course enormously over-expensive) for any use any of the customers Washington has foisted it on/bribed to buy it would realistically be likely to need, isn't it. Is, as i said before, total situational awareness and maximized coordination of response really necessary to bomb Palestinians?

It certainly is over engineered and expensive but think of the F-35 as something more than a fighter. It's a policy. It pushes current foreign manufacturers to more expensive fighters to counter it. Pushing development costs up. Europe and anyone else thinking of making a fighter other than the Russians and Chinese won't be able to counter it with their limited R&D and procurement budgets. So the F-35 has the potential to remove many competitors  producing fighters THUS increasing weapons reliance on the U.S. 

Even if the F-35 is mediocre as a dogfighter... as, and then points out it will make up for it with situational awareness. Thus becoming a great success.   

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3 hours ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

so it's enormously over-elaborate (and of course enormously over-expensive) for any use any of the customers Washington has foisted it on/bribed to buy it would realistically be likely to need, isn't it. Is, as i said before, total situational awareness and maximized coordination of response really necessary to bomb Palestinians?

 

Nope, but they can light a fire under the Hezzies in Syria when they try moving advanced weapons into Lebanon.  I'll say it again, IF it's a pig, we'll see soon enough.

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1 hour ago, Captain Risky said:

It certainly is over engineered and expensive but think of the F-35 as something more than a fighter. It's a policy. It pushes current foreign manufacturers to more expensive fighters to counter it. Pushing development costs up. Europe and anyone else thinking of making a fighter other than the Russians and Chinese won't be able to counter it with their limited R&D and procurement budgets. So the F-35 has the potential to remove many competitors  producing fighters THUS increasing weapons reliance on the U.S. 

Even if the F-35 is mediocre as a dogfighter... as, and then points out it will make up for it with situational awareness. Thus becoming a great success.   

 

I have confidence that the Israelis will tweak anything that needs tweaking, tech wise, and will be the first to prove its value in a real world situation.  I just hope it isn't by destroying Russian AA sites in Syria.  I think the naysayers here are bogged down in an old paradigm.  The battlespace of the future is one of awareness and the ability to project power into it from a vantage of stealth. A little "boom" in a precise place does a LOT more than a bigger "boom" that is less close.

Those who think it's a pig won't admit it until forced to :) 

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