EU to bug every car in UK with tracker chips

[seeder]

EU to bug every car in UK with tracker chips – and Ministers admit they are powerless to stop the Big Brother technology

Under EU plans, every new car sold in UK will have a 'black box' device

Gadget contains a phone-like SIM card which tracks drivers' movements

Designed to help emergency services find vehicles in the event of crash

Government believes the device will add at least £100 to the cost of cars

Officials also fear it could be used by police to monitor motorists' moves

But ministers admit they are powerless to stop Big Brother technology

All new car models will have to include 'eCall' device from October 2015

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2625244/EU-bug-car-UK-tracker-chips-Ministers-admit-powerless-stop-Big-Brother-technology.html#ixzz31P33fR8D

[Space Commander Travis]

Ah, whenever I see a story that begins "Under EU plans...." (imagine indignant voice) I also look to see where it's from.

And yup, it usually is the Daily Mail.

[toast]

As this technology will be SIM based, detailed movement profiles will be generated and I don`t think that this will be accepted

by the majority. If we get forced to use this technology, I think some kind of hidden economy will arise providing tools to manipulate

the technology and I would be one of the first clients for this, that`s for sure.

Here an example that shows the level of accuracy of such profiles, it`s really Big Brother like:

Green party politician Malte Spitz sued to have German telecoms giant Deutsche Telekom hand over six months of his phone data that he

then made available to ZEIT ONLINE. We combined this geolocation data with information relating to his life as a politician, such as Twitter

feeds, blog entries and websites, all of which is all freely available on the internet.

By pushing the play button, you will set off on a trip through Malte Spitz's life. The speed controller allows you to adjust how fast you travel,

the pause button will let you stop at interesting points. In addition, a calendar at the bottom shows when he was in a particular location and

can be used to jump to a specific time period. Each column corresponds to one day.

http://www.zeit.de/datenschutz/malte-spitz-data-retention

[seeder]

None of this bothers me, I've never had a new car Always bought second-hand, so it will take a great many years before this bothers me in cars, but having said that, id like THE CHOICE about whether to have it or not

In terms of being tracked, your mobile phone has been doing that for years

[stevewinn]

Ah, whenever I see a story that begins "Under EU plans...." (imagine indignant voice) I also look to see where it's from.

And yup, it usually is the Daily Mail.

But the important question is, is it true? or are the daily mail making it up?

[RoofGardener]

EU to bug every car in UK with tracker chips – and Ministers admit they are powerless to stop the Big Brother technology

....... Designed to help emergency services find vehicles in the event of crash........

Are we really just going to sit here and accept that sentence ? THINK about it people. Does that hold water ? I mean, REALLY ?

Precisely WHAT use would these devices be to the emergency services ? They can only be of use to tell you which cars are IN a crash at a given location, This information is of ZERO value to the fire brigade or ambulance services. It doesn't tell you WHO is in the car (which would at least have given useful information like blood type etc), merely which VEHICLE(s) is/are present.

Are the emergency services supposed to be looking for a vehicle that is "missing, presumed crashed" ? Either the vehicle is THERE, or it is NOT.

If it IS, and the emergency services are on site, what POSSIBLE information can this SIM card thingy give them ? If the vehicle is NOT there, then on what basis are we assuming that the vehicle in a crash ?

The sentence seems completely mendacious. Why are the media not challenging this seemingly facile lie ? This device ONLY has a police surveillance function, not an 'emergency service' one.

[Border Collie]

Ah, whenever I see a story that begins "Under EU plans...." (imagine indignant voice) I also look to see where it's from.

And yup, it usually is the Daily Mail.

Could have been the Telegraph!

[stevewinn]

the Guardian reported on what seems like the same story back in 2009. - http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/mar/31/surveillance-transport-communication-box

Big Brother is watching: surveillance box to track drivers is backed. Under the proposals, vehicles will emit a constant "heartbeat" revealing their location, speed and direction of travel. The EU officials behind the plan believe it will significantly reduce road accidents, congestion and carbon emissions. A consortium of manufacturers has indicated that the router device could be installed in all new cars as early as 2013.However, privacy campaigners warned last night that a European-wide car tracking system would create a system of almost total road surveillance.

Details of the Cooperative Vehicle-Infrastructure Systems (CVIS) project, a £36m EU initiative backed by car manufacturers and the telecoms industry, will be unveiled this year.

But the Guardian has been given unpublished documents detailing the proposed uses for the system. They confirm that it could have profound implications for privacy, enabling cars to be tracked to within a metre - more accurate than current satellite navigation technologies.

The European commission has asked governments to reserve radio frequency on the 5.9 Gigahertz band, essentially setting aside a universal frequency on which CVIS technology will work.

The system allows cars to "talk" to one another and the road. A "communication box" behind the dashboard ensures that cars send out "heartbeat" messages every 500 milliseconds through mobile cellular

[TSS]

Just don't buy a new car - when car sales slump as people are wary of this then they'll need a rethink, even if they carry on for a while if the trend of new sales continues to decline then they'll find a way to shelve it.

Buying a new car is a waste of money anyway....if you really want to spend 15 - 30k on a new every day car, you'd be better off buying something old that you really want, then using the difference to have the engine, brakes, suspension and air-con etc all upgraded and added. New car prices plummet no matter what...old cars that have modern modifications hold value and even go up in value with every year that passes.

[Wickian]

What's to stop people from simply looking up where it's located online and removing/breaking it?

[seeder]

I wonder if this may have some value to the law makers, who may want to charge drivers by the mile in future?

[Mr.United_Nations]

Cars already have a tracker, its called a license plate

[ProfessorPurple]

In terms of being tracked, your mobile phone has been doing that for years

Any company vehicle with company's phone fitted into it, does this. So do all models that have On-board Sat-Nav/G.P.S, Mapping systems, Waze, etc etc

Big Brother has been sitting in the back seat for a while now, people......

[The Silver Thong]

Do you have a smart phone, if so a car is nothing. Wait till the EU lol makes implants a reality.

directed at no one just a thought. Im off to the pub to use there free wifi lol

[Bendy Demon]

In terms of being tracked, your mobile phone has been doing that for years

This is one big reason why I don't have one. But I think people must love being tracked like stockyard cattle otherwise people would stop buying the devices and make it clear that they refuse to use them until they are no longer equipped with a technology that cannot be truly turned off and thereby making it truly unable to track your whereabouts.

While I do not know if the article is real or not, there does seem to be a disturbing trend spreading like wildfire that any and all mobile devices are being used to spy on and track us like cargo.

[Junior Chubb]

Another inevitable move, for me it was just a question of how long it will take to bring in.

I am not sure where I stand on it though. I am not a fan of 'Big Brother' tactics but I do not see what the infringement here is. This is not a voice recording device, it does not control your speed but would discourage a driver from breaking the rules of the road they agreed to conform to when they received if a drivers license if your driving habits are monitored.

This is just a stepping stone, at some point in the future personal transport will be controlled the vehicle rather than the driver. If the average driver was more responsible on the road we might not be looking at this scenario as the excuses for implementing it would not be as strong.

Edited May 11, 2014 by Junior Chubb

[Still Waters]

This article published June 13, 2013 has a slightly different version of its use.

But the Commission was keen to reassure citizens that there would be no risk of data monitoring. "For liability reasons, the emergency call centres will store the data related to the eCall for a determined period of time, in accordance with national regulations and with Data Protection Directive," said the Commission in a statement. But the eCall is a dormant system, only triggered when an accident occurs or by the driver pushing a button manually in the car.

"It is not traceable and when there is no emergency (its normal operational status) it is not subject to any constant tracking. As it is not permanently connected to mobile networks, hackers cannot take control of it," according to the Commission.

http://www.computerw...in_all_new_cars

[AZDZ]

What's to stop people from simply looking up where it's located online and removing/breaking it?

By making any tampering illegal. Just like with vehicle emission controls, which require a biyearly, (varies by area) inspection to ensure they're still operating, so will the chip need be present and functioning or else no new registration will be granted.

It will be just another thing for the inspector to check while they already have you bent over.

Edited May 11, 2014 by AZDZ

[Still Waters]

Oh, this is interesting. I've just found a thread which says they're planning to do the same thing in the US from 2015 as well.

http://www.unexplain...howtopic=225827

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

2015: No inspector, I have no idea why the SIM card seems to be broken, must have been a flaw in the card.

2016: No inspector, I have no idea why the SIM card seems to be broken, it must have happened when I had that fender bender last year.

2017: No inspector, I have no idea why the SIM card seems to be broken, it must have been a rock that got flicked up when I went on that dirt road.

2018: No inspector, I'm not coming up with another "excuse" for breaking the SIM card, you can jam it up your nose.

[Space Commander Travis]

This article published June 13, 2013 has a slightly different version of its use.

http://www.computerw...in_all_new_cars

Sounds rather like a kind of emergency beacon, like fitted to boats. As such, it would seem quite a sensible idea, but don't worry people, the Ukip will protect us from it.

[Space Commander Travis]

Another inevitable move, for me it was just a question of how long it will take to bring in.

I am not sure where I stand on it though. I am not a fan of 'Big Brother' tactics but I do not see what the infringement here is. This is not a voice recording device, it does not control your speed but would discourage a driver from breaking the rules of the road they agreed to conform to when they received if a drivers license if your driving habits are monitored.

This is just a stepping stone, at some point in the future personal transport will be controlled the vehicle rather than the driver. If the average driver was more responsible on the road we might not be looking at this scenario as the excuses for implementing it would not be as strong.

frankly I think personal transport really ought to be controlled rather than the utterly anarchic free for all we've all come to accept as being an human Right, but that's probably a topic for a different discussion.

[Junior Chubb]

frankly I think personal transport really ought to be controlled rather than the utterly anarchic free for all we've all come to accept as being an human Right, but that's probably a topic for a different discussion.

Another tough one to call really. I think the current generation would have real trouble making the transition and relinquishing control of their vehicles. Once the change has been made generations that are born into such transport will think it strange that we once drove our own vehicles for 100% of the journey.

After reading the article it is definitely something for another thread. The proposals in the article don't really warrant the fears expressed in this thread, let alone starting to take control of the entire vehicle.

[Still Waters]

The proposals in the article don't really warrant the fears expressed in this thread, let alone starting to take control of the entire vehicle.

I'm inclined to agree with you, but then I don't have any issues in what they're planning to do. I can see a huge advantage in someone being able to locate you should your car break down or whatever. Far better than fiddling around on your mobile trying to get through to your breakdown insurance people and having to sit there for ages while you explain exactly where you are - that is if you even know! Unfamiliar roads in the dark, in the middle of nowhere, kind of thing.

[JJ50]

IF that is true, it is a good idea, imo. I have nothing to hide.