Suspended for refusing to pledge allegiance

[Jeremiah65]

Damn....we got a seriously messed up, hypocritical country full of double speak and double standards...

I tip my hat to the kid...he was expressing his disappointment in quiet non conformity. I appreciate that...I really do.

I agree with a poster above, when I was in school, such was never even heard of...we were all very well programmed back then.

If you do not believe in something or support something...how do you voice that? I think it was a very heartfelt action...erm...inaction.

I still stand for the National Anthem and I still place my hand over my heart...but trust me...it's not because I support things now...I support the "idea" that is the USA...I support what it used to be and I support the hope it is not too far gone to save...but each day THAT hope dwindles...

[ninjadude]

HIGH SCHOOL?! Back in the 70s when I was in high school there was no pledge. In fact there was no pledge in Junior high either. This must be a remote place indeed.

[Jeremiah65]

HIGH SCHOOL?! Back in the 70s when I was in high school there was no pledge. In fact there was no pledge in Junior high either. This must be a remote place indeed.

Must just be dependent on the "where"...I graduated in 1983 and said the pledge of allegiance every day of school all the way through. We had morning prayer in grade school, but that stopped somewhere around 1975 or so...sometime before I started Jr. High anyway.

[ninjadude]

Must just be dependent on the "where".

for me. A VERY RED RED state west of where I live now.

[Michelle]

We didn't have prayer or the pledge past second grade in 1960's Georgia.

Good for him, standing for what he believes in.

Edited May 16, 2014 by Michelle

[Gromdor]

It did get me thinking though. What do you have to do as a citizen of the United States? What obligations or responsibilities? Do you have to do anything for the country at all?

[The Silver Thong]

It did get me thinking though. What do you have to do as a citizen of the United States? What obligations or responsibilities? Do you have to do anything for the country at all?

I wonder how true this is today. It`s not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country. Times change and its now backwards. Corrupt government needs no support as it supports itself by ripping the people off, now suck it up.

Edited May 16, 2014 by The Silver Thong

[The Silver Thong]

It's possible to hate/protest the Fed Govt, and still be an American Patriot. (I'm living proof of this.)

I never said the kid should be denied his freedom of speech rights. I DID say he should find a better way to protest.

He has caused trouble for himself. I doubt his actions will change Texas School, (or Tx Govt.) policies, and it's highly unlikely his actions will change Fed Govt. policies. It takes more than one person's protests to accomplish this.

Living proof of what. The ability to conform to a doctrine.

A better way to protest, how so. Government sanctioned protestes. Very draconian imo.

Caused trouble for himself how, oh ya by standing up for his belief that the US is not what he has been told in a government building funded by the people. He has every right to protest. The people that suspended him should be suspended from teaching as they seem to be the ones in the wrong.

If my parents are religious and I am not is it there right to punish me over a difference of opinion-belief. Maybe you are the one that should visit the so called nations you mentioned as you seem to have forgotten what freedom is.

[Indiogene]

The pledge of allegiance isn't a requirement, most schools have the pledge out of tradition and routine. Unless a religion (Jehovah's witnesses for example) prohibits persons from taking a pledge of allegiance to a government, the child has to take the pledge of allegiance out of respect for the country by the flag it represents. Refusing to say the pledge can lead to disciplinary action when I was in school in CA in the 1980s or 90s, mainly a minor offense like time in on-campus suspension or OCS in the office. The pledge of allegiance is considered a big deal to adhere, because teachers and schools felt this taught us to like and respect our country, and we're aware our fighting men and women in the armed forces fought for the flag.

Edited May 16, 2014 by Mike D boy

[The Silver Thong]

The pledge of allegiance isn't a requirement, most schools have the pledge out of tradition and routine. Unless a religion (Jehovah's witnesses for example) prohibits persons from taking a pledge of allegiance to a government, the child has to take the pledge of allegiance out of respect for the country by the flag it represents. Refusing to say the pledge can lead to disciplinary action when I was in school in CA in the 1980s or 90s, mainly a minor offense like time in on-campus suspension or OCS in the office. The pledge of allegiance is considered a big deal to adhere, because teachers and schools felt this taught us to like and respect our country, and we're aware our fighting men and women in the armed forces fought for the flag.

What happened to the seperation of church and state. How does a nation garner respect when it`s forced and not earned. The last time the US fought for its flag was in the war of 1812.

Edited May 16, 2014 by The Silver Thong

[scorpiosonic]

Living proof of what. The ability to conform to a doctrine.

A better way to protest, how so. Government sanctioned protestes. Very draconian imo.

Caused trouble for himself how, oh ya by standing up for his belief that the US is not what he has been told in a government building funded by the people. He has every right to protest. The people that suspended him should be suspended from teaching as they seem to be the ones in the wrong.

If my parents are religious and I am not is it there right to punish me over a difference of opinion-belief. Maybe you are the one that should visit the so called nations you mentioned as you seem to have forgotten what freedom is.

NO, living proof that a person can hate their Govt, and still love their country.

I never said anything about any Govt sanctioned protest....maybe U should re-read my post.

I never said he didn't have the right to protest either, maybe U should re-read my post.

Your last sentence proves beyond a doubt that U can't comprehend what I've stated.

[The Silver Thong]

NO, living proof that a person can hate their Govt, and still love their country.

I never said anything about any Govt sanctioned protest....maybe U should re-read my post.

I never said he didn't have the right to protest either, maybe U should re-read my post.

Your last sentence proves beyond a doubt that U can't comprehend what I've stated.

Your many posts in this thread show that you believe children should be forced to believe in government and if not the government should punish them.

People in North Korea are made to do the same. And everyday are lied to by there government. Why should someone in the US be forced to lie about how they feel.

Edited May 16, 2014 by The Silver Thong

[scorpiosonic]

Your many posts in this thread show that you believe children should be forced to believe in government and if not the government should punish them.

People in North Korea are made to do the same. And everyday are lied to by there government. Why should someone in the US be forced to lie about how they feel.

You fail to comprehend the meaning of my many posts here because you are too busy reinterpreting my words, and/or trying to twist my meanings.

Don't read between the lines, read the lines, and then take them @ face value.

Did anyone force the Tx kid to lie???

[The Silver Thong]

You fail to comprehend the meaning of my many posts here because you are too busy reinterpreting my words, and/or trying to twist my meanings.

Don't read between the lines, read the lines, and then take them @ face value.

Did anyone force the Tx kid to lie???

They suspended him for telling or expressing his belief over a pledge that means nothing. If you personaly love your nation express it, if you don`t do the same.

[scorpiosonic]

You fail to comprehend the meaning of my many posts here because you are too busy reinterpreting my words, and/or trying to twist my meanings.

Don't read between the lines, read the lines, and then take them @ face value.

Did anyone force the Tx kid to lie???

They suspended him for telling or expressing his belief over a pledge that means nothing. If you personaly love your nation express it, if you don`t do the same.

Answer my question plz, Did anyone force the Tx kid to lie???

[Wickian]

I had friends in the ROTC back in high school who refused to say the pledge. They never had any problems.

[The Silver Thong]

I had friends in the ROTC back in high school who refused to say the pledge. They never had any problems.

I think this is a very rare thing and the story is made to create a story stir the pot.

[acidhead]

I think this is a very rare thing and the story is made to create a story stir the pot.

It sure is! Patriotism is the highest form of Collectivism.

Edited May 16, 2014 by acidhead

[+joc]

I think if one refuses to say the pledge they should be taken out back and shot in the head and thrown in a big hole. That being said, I think that anyone who does say the pledge should be taken out back and shot in the head and thrown in a big hole. Problem solved.

[Babe Ruth]

Some of us actually love our country.

It's more than just a piece of cloth.

I recited the Pledge every school day of my life. (That's first grade thru 12th.)

True, better than a loaded gun @ school.

I think most of us love our country.

Unfortunately, some confuse and conflate country with government. They are 2 separate things, not the same at all.

I think it was Paine who said that the duty of the patriot is to protect and defend his country from its government.

[Frank Merton]

What a stupid meaningless ritual that only by refusing it does its real meaning come out -- that the States aren't quite as "free" as they think.

[Bendy Demon]

It's all about control and conditioning the kids as early as they can so they won't think of resisting or thinking for themselves out of fear of being punished by being kicked out of school, losing their jobs and/or having a mark on their records for being a rebel or something.

That is how we have always controlled and manipulated others into plodding along like beaten dogs and oxen, through fear, threats, punishments.

Edited May 16, 2014 by Ryu

[Space Commander Travis]

Some quite interesting information about it on Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance

Note the original version of the recommended salute, up until 1941. :-/

[Purplos]

Every school I ever heard of has a booklet of rules and regulations. If, in that book of rules, it states that all students must stand and recite the pledge, then suspension is warranted. If it is not in that book, then the school is wrong. Institutions are allowed to make their own rules and follow them. IMO, it's a stupid rule. If the student wants to change the rule, he should go about doing that.

How on earth people think this impinges on his right to free speech is beyond me. They did not force him to his feet at gunpoint, have him arrested or beaten until he spat out the pledge in fear of his life. He exercised his free speech by sitting there and not saying the pledge.

Freedom of speech does NOT equal freedom from consequences. Blows my mind when it seems so many other people think it means you can say (or not say in this case) whatever you want without any consequences whatsoever.

[+OverSword]

HIGH SCHOOL?! Back in the 70s when I was in high school there was no pledge. In fact there was no pledge in Junior high either. This must be a remote place indeed.

Nope, when Regan was in office (when I was in high school) they brought back the daily recitation of the pledge of allegiance . I think they didn't do it when Nixon, Ford and Carter were president's because it was so embarrassing to be an American. Just like under Bush, Clinton, Bush and Obama. Edited May 16, 2014 by OverSword