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OverSword

Suspended for refusing to pledge allegiance

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scorpiosonic

Every school I ever heard of has a booklet of rules and regulations. If, in that book of rules, it states that all students must stand and recite the pledge, then suspension is warranted. If it is not in that book, then the school is wrong. Institutions are allowed to make their own rules and follow them. IMO, it's a stupid rule. If the student wants to change the rule, he should go about doing that.

How on earth people think this impinges on his right to free speech is beyond me. They did not force him to his feet at gunpoint, have him arrested or beaten until he spat out the pledge in fear of his life. He exercised his free speech by sitting there and not saying the pledge.

Freedom of speech does NOT equal freedom from consequences. Blows my mind when it seems so many other people think it means you can say (or not say in this case) whatever you want without any consequences whatsoever.

Co-signed, and well-said. A common-sense post. :tu:

Americans do have their rights and freedoms, but at the same time, we can't infringe upon other's rights, and ppl tend to ignore this limiting factor. (Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins.)

According to Wiki, no one can be forced to say the Pledge. I don't know what that particular School's rules are, but I'm assuming that since he was suspended, the kid broke the rules.

Very interesting re the original salute as the Nazis adopted the exact same one. (AR, thanks for the link.)

Edited by scorpiosonic

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President-Elect Acidhead

Perhaps his teacher told him "You didn't build that".

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OverSword

Perhaps his teacher told him "You didn't build that".

He didn't. :ph34r:

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Sir Wearer of Hats

It's possible to hate/protest the Fed Govt, and still be an American Patriot. (I'm living proof of this.)

I never said the kid should be denied his freedom of speech rights. I DID say he should find a better way to protest.

He has caused trouble for himself. I doubt his actions will change Texas School, (or Tx Govt.) policies, and it's highly unlikely his actions will change Fed Govt. policies. It takes more than one person's protests to accomplish this.

"Being a patriot means standing your ground, even if you stand alone and telling the mob "no, you move"" - Captain America.

"Bad rules are meant to be broken" - the Doctor.

Edited by Sir Wearer of Hats
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Sir Wearer of Hats

How on earth people think this impinges on his right to free speech is beyond me. They did not force him to his feet at gunpoint, have him arrested or beaten until he spat out the pledge in fear of his life. He exercised his free speech by sitting there and not saying the pledge.

No, they said "say the pledge or we suspend you from school", that's what in the rest of the world is called A THREAT.

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Ogbin

Free speach in America is dwindling everyday and unfortunately nothing will be done about this. Most Americans don't even understand this, being that they are dummed down from the junk on tv, radio, newspapers and internet. Most Americans live in bubbles these days and as long as their bubbles are not popped or invaded they just don't care. They say they care and they speak their minds (somtimes way to much, hence twitter, facebook and whatever other social media that is out there) but in the end nothing is done because that would mean actullay standing up and doing something other than talk. Welcome to the new America where Political Correctness rules and Free Speach is dead.

God Bless America, because if he doesn't we are all in trouble.

Edit: Good job kid! You are an inspiration to us all. Continue the good fight and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Edited by Ogbin
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Purplos
No, they said "say the pledge or we suspend you from school", that's what in the rest of the world is called A THREAT.

It's a pretty wimpy threat. Of course the kid doesn't want to be suspended, but it's hardly dangerous. It could be seen as some non-violent protest in an attempt to get the rule changed or something. Like I said, I think it's a stupid rule.

American's freedom of speech comes from this: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech..." The first amendment of the Constitution.

In this case, the government had absolutely nothing to do with this boy getting in trouble for not saying the pledge. What he did was against no law. He wasn't arrested etc.

If someone feels a rule is unjust, they surely must be able to back up their righteous belief with something as soft as a few days off school. I would dare say in some parts of the world without any freedom of speech, they would call a gun at the back of the head or being set upon by dogs or thrown in jail indefinitely as a threat... not school suspension.

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Skep B

I assume it's a public school, as such it's under control ultimately by the government. as an agent of the government it's not supposed to try to stop someone from protesting like the kid was doing.

That said, the kid seems like an annoying brat who doesn't understand all that much. Not important as it's a pledge...who really does it hurt he's not creating a scene, he's not stepping on toes, he's just setting there.

The school has now made him a martyr and he'll get his podium to stand and talk on.

Kid with a stupid idea, school with a stupid reaction.

Nothing gained for anyone, just a lot of noise.

For the record, our pledge is dumb. Why pledge anything to a piece of cloth, or a nation that will one day fall.? If you're going to pledge to something wait until you're adult enough to understand what you're doing.

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g00dfella

I always wish something like this happens to me...with our legal system, its the equivalent of a winning Lotto ticket...

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Babe Ruth

It's a pretty wimpy threat. Of course the kid doesn't want to be suspended, but it's hardly dangerous. It could be seen as some non-violent protest in an attempt to get the rule changed or something. Like I said, I think it's a stupid rule.

American's freedom of speech comes from this: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech..." The first amendment of the Constitution.

In this case, the government had absolutely nothing to do with this boy getting in trouble for not saying the pledge. What he did was against no law. He wasn't arrested etc.

If someone feels a rule is unjust, they surely must be able to back up their righteous belief with something as soft as a few days off school. I would dare say in some parts of the world without any freedom of speech, they would call a gun at the back of the head or being set upon by dogs or thrown in jail indefinitely as a threat... not school suspension.

One must consider the perspective.

You or I as adults may not consider school suspension to be much of a threat, but a young person trying to play by the rules and advance may consider the threat of suspension to be, well, a threat.

Intimidation, extortion maybe. Let's call a spade a spade--the kid was threatened with a penalty if he did not submit to authority.

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Frank Merton

It's interesting and though I admire the kid I think it all unnecessary grandstanding. I would say the pledge with everyone else in good conscience even if I didn't mean a word of it. School is school and I am there to learn, not to be a martyr.

Here is a case of a small wrong and a greater wrong, with someone choosing the greater.

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Purplos

I assume it's a public school, as such it's under control ultimately by the government.

There is no law saying all students in school must say the pledge. It may or may not be a rule made by the school. All rules made by schools do not come from the government.

Let's call a spade a spade--the kid was threatened with a penalty if he did not submit to authority.

Of course he was. And so is everyone who lives anywhere with laws, or tax, or employment or restaurants or anything! If you don't drive within the speed limit, you get a ticket. (penalty for not submitting to road law authority). If you don't pay taxes you get in trouble (submitting to government treasury authority). If you don't do what your boss says, you get fired. (submitting to company authority). If you don't wear shoes in a restaurant, they will not serve you. (submitting to restaurant owner authority)

The list is endless. Where does this idea come that people should never, ever have to submit to any type of authority ever? Or that no one should ever have consequences for their actions?

Like I said before, IF it is a documented school rule, the kid broke it. I think it's a silly rule, but to say that all rules should be able to be broken without consequences makes for some seriously irresponsible people, imo.

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Frank Merton

Well there are times when one is forced by conscience to break the law. May Buddha smile on me and make such times few and far between.

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zebra99

How many times do Americans have to do this "pledge", the guy says that he's done it so many times that he is sick of it , so if he is silently protesting its better than running around a school with a loaded gun.

Us Brits stand for the National Anthem as it is a mark of respect , but we don't keep pledging allegiance.

Your members of parliament do...to the Queen and her heirs and successors...so if Charlie and his adultress take over when Liz dies they'll have to swear to them too...or they're not allowed to represent you in parliament. Gives you a warm feeling inside don't it?

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Babe Ruth

Pretty Border Collies! :tu:

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Skep B

There is no law saying all students in school must say the pledge. It may or may not be a rule made by the school. All rules made by schools do not come from the government.

If the school makes a rule, and the government doesn't stop that rule, isn't that a show of support from the government?

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Imaginarynumber1

If the school makes a rule, and the government doesn't stop that rule, isn't that a show of support from the government?

So it was the government telling me I couldn't hang upside down from the monkey bars back in 3rd grade?

Thanks, Obama.

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Skep B

The fact the government didnt tell them to change that rule means the government was ok with it yes.

In the case of you and the monkney bars its probably a good thing, falling directly on your head is generally frowned upon

in the case of this pledge of allegiance thing its a bit overkill to force on some kids it smacks of indoctrination.

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Michelle

The fact the government didnt tell them to change that rule means the government was ok with it yes.

What government do you mean? Schools have elected board officials in each individual district, They are below county representatives, who they would report to first. From there it goes to the city officials, then to the state, then to the federal. County representatives do not go over each individual school's rules. They have standards that must be met, but each individual school has their preference as to whether to have uniforms, assemblies, etc...

So no, this isn't something the government would get involved in unless there was a complaint.

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Skep B

What government do you mean? Schools have elected board officials in each individual district, They are below county representatives, who they would report to first. From there it goes to the city officials, then to the state, then to the federal. County representatives do not go over each individual school's rules. They have standards that must be met, but each individual school has their preference as to whether to have uniforms, assemblies, etc...

So no, this isn't something the government would get involved in unless there was a complaint.

the fact that theres such a ladder of people to go through shows more how the government is connected to the school.

Or rather how close it should be. regardless, theres a complaint now, just a matter of time seeing how the powers that be decide to see if the government is ok w/ the indoctrination vibe of the thing.

To me, this matter of so many localities involved in schools is a good argument why there should be more federal power

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Michelle

To me, this matter of so many localities involved in schools is a good argument why there should be more federal power

I don't think so. The US is so vast, with so many various cultures in the different areas, the federal government couldn't make rules that would work all across the country. What might work well in California wouldn't necessarily work in Alabama.

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Sakari

Move the F out then.....

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Skep B

I don't think so. The US is so vast, with so many various cultures in the different areas, the federal government couldn't make rules that would work all across the country. What might work well in California wouldn't necessarily work in Alabama.

Im meaning more in the vein of oversight.

the cultural differences are annoying more than anything in the big picture of the world, but fine.

How could it hurt though to ensure that every school meets the same standards, or ensure that they follow a common rule basis to allow equal treatment across the board?

Move the F out then.....

Are you referring to the kid?

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Sakari

Are you referring to the kid?

yes sir.

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ninjadude

How could it hurt though to ensure that every school meets the same standards, or ensure that they follow a common rule basis to allow equal treatment across the board?

wow you're fighting against Republicans who what the Dept of Ed shutdown. This is one of it's main activities - EDUCATION standards. The pledge is not.

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