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OverSword

Suspended for refusing to pledge allegiance

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regeneratia

From the article:

A Texas teen was reportedly suspended from school for refusing to stand up and pledge his allegiance to the flag.

Mason Michalec, a sophomore at Needville High School, claims he’s taken a pledge not to say the Pledge.

“I’ve basically said it from the time I was in kindergarten to earlier this year and that’s when I decided I was done saying it,” he told KHOU.

The 15-year-old says he loves his country, but he doesn’t agree with how politicians are running it.

“I’m really tired of our government taking advantage of us,” said Michalec. “I don’t agree with the NSA spying on us. And I don’t agree with any of those Internet laws.”

But his attitude didn’t sit well with his Needville school. He stopped saying the pledge earlier this school year and hasn’t had a problem. But when announcements were moved to a different period on Wednesday, a new teacher spotted him sitting down during the recitation. He also sat down during the Texas Pledge, a special pledge that students in the state make to The Lone Star Flag. She was furious.

When my son was put in a situation to say the pledge, it was at the beginning of the school day, far prior to the late minutes. So, due also to traffic congestion on a small street, I just started taking him in to school 5 minutes later than most everyone else. Thsu we avoided the issue of saying a pledge with the use of the word "god" (which god, I will never really know). That is how our family dealt with having to say the pledge. I am not at all sure I want my son pledging to a flag, or a country whose government has gone extremely rogue.

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spartan max2

I agree with the kid. We should not be forced to pledge. He is free to live how he wants as long as it dosent infringe on other peoples freedoms.

I agree with alot of this kids complaints about our government too.

Perhaps there is hope for the future :innocent:. If more people had this kids attitude instead of the majorities lets "bend over and take it" attitude then maybe we wouldn't be in the mess we are in

Edited by spartan max2
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Michelle

How could it hurt though to ensure that every school meets the same standards, or ensure that they follow a common rule basis to allow equal treatment across the board?

There are national standards when it comes to teaching, but for the little things they leave it up to local school boards or individual schools. For instance, in rural areas, where kids may have to do certain chores on the farm each morning, they might start a little later. Some schools let the kids vote on whether to wear uniforms or not. I even heard of one school in California that lets the kids out when it is an exceptionally good day for surfing, because many of them would skip school anyway. It's already in the general plan to make up those days, like our schools do to make up missed snow days.

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Agent0range

When my son was put in a situation to say the pledge, it was at the beginning of the school day, far prior to the late minutes. So, due also to traffic congestion on a small street, I just started taking him in to school 5 minutes later than most everyone else. Thsu we avoided the issue of saying a pledge with the use of the word "god" (which god, I will never really know). That is how our family dealt with having to say the pledge. I am not at all sure I want my son pledging to a flag, or a country whose government has gone extremely rogue.

So leave. Please. Test your luck in another country. Instead of complaining, do something about it.

I agree with the kid. We should not be forced to pledge. He is free to live how he wants as long as it dosent infringe on other peoples freedoms.

I agree with alot of this kids complaints about our government too.

Perhaps there is hope for the future :innocent:. If more people had this kids attitude instead of the majorities lets "bend over and take it" attitude then maybe we wouldn't be in the mess we are in

Last time I checked, you are not pledging allegiance to the government, but to your country. Anyone who doesn't want to be loyal to their country can get the **** out.

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Skep B

yes sir.

he's a kid, how's he gonna move?

wow you're fighting against Republicans who what the Dept of Ed shutdown. This is one of it's main activities - EDUCATION standards. The pledge is not.

the republicans and I disagree of quite a few things

I dont care about the pledge either. I care about indoctrination

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Skep B

Last time I checked, you are not pledging allegiance to the government, but to your country. Anyone who doesn't want to be loyal to their country can get the **** out.

That's ridiculous, I don't pledge an allegiance to anyone but myself. America is just another country, and like any other civilization or country, it will eventually fall. If I'm around for that fall, I'll go along with whoever comes into power because they are in power, and siding with them ensures a better situation. for the people I care about. For a people that scream for freedom, this mindset seems directly contradictory.

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Agent0range

That's ridiculous, I don't pledge an allegiance to anyone but myself. America is just another country, and like any other civilization or country, it will eventually fall. If I'm around for that fall, I'll go along with whoever comes into power because they are in power, and siding with them ensures a better situation. for the people I care about. For a people that scream for freedom, this mindset seems directly contradictory.

So, basically, you are just a rug. Lie down and let anyone walk all over you and never stand up for anything. Cool way to go about your life.

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Skep B

That's some adorable rhetoric and passive aggressiveness you have there

Not a rug, a realist.

I don't feel passionate about any of the ideals of this or any other country. I'm willing to adapt to my surroundings. You want to pick a hill to die on, I'll not argue against that. But at the end of the day you died on that hill, and I move on with my situation.

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spartan max2

.

Last time I checked, you are not pledging allegiance to the government, but to your country. Anyone who doesn't want to be loyal to their country can get the **** out.

If we made people bow or kneel for the pledge would you still support forcing people to do it? Because really making someone pledge is the same as making someone kneel to something. Its like forcing someone to take an oath. Im not against the pledge personally i have no problem with saying it. But if someone does not want to say it then they should not be forced to.

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Agent0range

That's some adorable rhetoric and passive aggressiveness you have there

Not a rug, a realist.

I don't feel passionate about any of the ideals of this or any other country. I'm willing to adapt to my surroundings. You want to pick a hill to die on, I'll not argue against that. But at the end of the day you died on that hill, and I move on with my situation.

It is not rhetoric, and with that accusation, I doubt you understand the true meaning of the word. You clearly stated that you stand for nothing, but go along with whoever is in charge...

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Agent0range

If we made people bow or kneel for the pledge would you still support forcing people to do it? Because really making someone pledge is the same as making someone kneel to something. Its like forcing someone to take an oath. Im not against the pledge personally i have no problem with saying it. But if someone does not want to say it then they should not be forced to.

Bow or kneel? How is that even part of the argument? The school has rules, end of story. It is your choice not to pay taxes, but you have to face the consequences. It was his choice not to say the pledge, and now he faces the consequences. If I was a student in his school, I would absolutely punch him in the face, and GRACIOUSLY accept the consequences.

Edited by Agent0range
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Shiloh17

He can protest any way he likes, but I don't have to agree w/ it.

It's not an obligation, it's a privilege. Yes, the same goes for the Texas Pledge.

Send him to Nigeria, or Zimbabwe for a few yrs...then he can see what a really messed-up country looks like.

In the US, you can be prosecuted for burning the American Flag.

Sending him away for a few years for something so trivial would indeed show him a really messed up country. America.

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Shiloh17

A few years later, this guy is on the battlefield, shot up and crying out for help. You and your buddy can help him, but you tell your buddy, "Let him die, in high school, he refused to say the pledge of allegiance."

Or if it was changed later due to Muslim influence to "one nation under Allah" how many of you would refuse to say it?

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Skep B

It is not rhetoric, and with that accusation, I doubt you understand the true meaning of the word. You clearly stated that you stand for nothing, but go along with whoever is in charge...

rhetoric: language designed to have a persuasive or impressive effect on its audience, but often regarded as lacking in sincerity or meaningful content.

You calling me a rug was clearly not sincere as you probably don't suspect em of being an inatimate object. It holds nothing meaningful because it's a snap opinion of a one sided viewpoint.

So yes, I'm aware of the true meaning of the word

I said specifically, I don't stand for a country, I stand for myself. And, myself I don't think about morality, or right and wrong, I think about what's going to allow me to live a life i want to live. If I'm able to do that, then I don't really care what government is in charge.

It is ironic that you would call someone a rug for allowing change to happen, when you're telling this kid to be a rug to a society that is punishing him for standing for his beliefs.

edit** i accidentally changed the font size

Edited by Scheming B

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Frank Merton

So leave. Please. Test your luck in another country. Instead of complaining, do something about it.

Last time I checked, you are not pledging allegiance to the government, but to your country. Anyone who doesn't want to be loyal to their country can get the **** out.

Loyalty to one's country and loyalty to the government are hard to separate. People will draw the line at different places. I don't know if I like the idea of a central authority setting curriculum, although most countries do it, it kinda means every time there is a change in government the curriculum gets changed. I would much prefer a politically independent body for this. Local control of course serves to divide a country so I don't think that would be a good idea either.

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Frank Merton

Bow or kneel? How is that even part of the argument? The school has rules, end of story. It is your choice not to pay taxes, but you have to face the consequences. It was his choice not to say the pledge, and now he faces the consequences. If I was a student in his school, I would absolutely punch him in the face, and GRACIOUSLY accept the consequences.

Bowing and kneeling means nothing unless it means something in your heart. Otherwise it is just exercise.

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spartan max2

Bow or kneel? How is that even part of the argument? The school has rules, end of story. It is your choice not to pay taxes, but you have to face the consequences. It was his choice not to say the pledge, and now he faces the consequences. If I was a student in his school, I would absolutely punch him in the face, and GRACIOUSLY accept the consequences.

It should not be a rule it should be optional always.

You would punch him in the face. Why do you feel so strongly about making someone say the pledge?

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Wickian

What's the point in forcing a pledge? If someone doesn't mean it then there's no point in saying it to begin with unless you want blind obedience.

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Frank Merton

In point of fact forcing public ceremony on people who resent it only makes their resentment stronger.

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OverSword

It is not rhetoric, and with that accusation, I doubt you understand the true meaning of the word. You clearly stated that you stand for nothing, but go along with whoever is in charge...

like most people have done from the beginning of time. Do you really think that if you had been born in North Korea you wouldn't have made sure everyone saw you crying, tearing your clothes and pulling your hair out when the last great leader died?
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Sir Wearer of Hats

Bow or kneel? How is that even part of the argument? The school has rules, end of story. It is your choice not to pay taxes, but you have to face the consequences. It was his choice not to say the pledge, and now he faces the consequences. If I was a student in his school, I would absolutely punch him in the face, and GRACIOUSLY accept the consequences.

So you would use violence to make someone do what you want?

Do you REALLY want people to equate "American Patriotism" with violence and coercion?

Listen, I'm not American. I'm an outsider. Would you like to know how you look to at the very least this outsider?

I don't think you'll like or ... or care to hear it actually.

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Space Commander Travis

So leave. Please. Test your luck in another country. Instead of complaining, do something about it.

Last time I checked, you are not pledging allegiance to the government, but to your country. Anyone who doesn't want to be loyal to their country can get the **** out.

yay! the first sighting of the "if you don't loudly and ostentatiously proclaim your love for Uncle Sam, then move to north Korea" argument. You get ten points.
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Space Commander Travis

Bow or kneel? How is that even part of the argument? The school has rules, end of story. It is your choice not to pay taxes, but you have to face the consequences. It was his choice not to say the pledge, and now he faces the consequences. If I was a student in his school, I would absolutely punch him in the face, and GRACIOUSLY accept the consequences.

Punch him in the face for not proclaiming his love for Uncle Sam loudly enough? This is an interesting totalitarian regime you have in mind here. And you were saying a moment ago that someone else is a rug and lies down and lets anyone walk over them? But if anyone doesn't proclaim their love for Uncle Sam loudly enough, you'd be happy to punch them in the face? No irony or contradiction there then?

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Babe Ruth

So, basically, you are just a rug. Lie down and let anyone walk all over you and never stand up for anything. Cool way to go about your life.

It seems more likely that YOU are the rug, obeying any rule the powers-that-be put forth.

If they pass a law saying anybody assisting a slave in escaping is committing a crime, you obey that law with no questions asked.

If they pass a law saying anybody seeing his brother smoke pot must turn his brother in for that crime against the state, you turn in your brother AND your friend who does not turn in his brother.

Thank you for demonstrating the irrational and immoral results that can come from illegitimate law and brainwashed citizens.

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rashore

I'm curious. Legally, do minors have first amendment rights on school property? I'm finding conflicting information on this.

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