Suspended for refusing to pledge allegiance

[Space Commander Travis]

I would punch Robert H. Jackson in the face.

I don't think people are getting this " punching people ".....

No ****, physical force is illegal. Does that stop people from getting in altercations?

What we are saying ( similar, but also a bit different ) is legal or not, if someone were to show this much lack of respect towards something everyone else is showing respect to, they would get their ass kicked.

If you were at school, or a sporting event, whatever. ( 15 year olds )And someone, or even say a dozen people had been killed by a drunk driver the week before.......( all very well respected and loved by you )

In your morning meeting, or at the beginning of the event, it is asked that everyone give a 30 second moment of silence.......

Now, this 15 year old refuses to be silent, and starts singing, or voicing that he could care less about those people, and it is his right to not be silent......

That is how a lot of us feel about this, and I am sure in above example, many would want, and would, kick his ass.....Wrong or right.

Get it now?

Now, one

Sorry, that analogy makes no sense at all. Not worshipping a representation of the State is akin to that situation? I don't get that at all.

[aztek]

not only it makes 0 sence, what happens to his wife after he gets thrown in jail????

jails are ful of dumb people.

[Stellar]

Sorry, that analogy makes no sense at all. Not worshipping a representation of the State is akin to that situation? I don't get that at all.

And now we delve into the realm of failure to worship the state is akin to killing babies.

I know no one quite used those words, but that indeed seems to be where this is going.

It's funny how we call people in other countries "brainwashed" for similar reasons, yet those reasons don't apply to you.

[+OverSword]

How am I wrong? I NEVER SAID it wasn't his right to NOT say the pledge. However, I did say that if I was a student in that school, I would have punched him in the face. I mean, what I just said is not opinion, it is absolute truth. So, how exactly can I be wrong?

If you would hit someone for not pledging allegiance then you need to see a shrink. You've got deep, deep issues. I don't belirve you would actually hit someone for that so why not just admit it?

[Sakari]

This is funny.

2 people here are very passionate and love their Country that much. And others are trying to tell us we are wrong for feeling that way?

Who are any of you to tell us our passion, belief, and opinion on our love for our Country are wrong?

Hypocrisy?

Look, I get p***ed, and voice it, and would get physical,( depending on how bad it got ) when people talk during the National Anthem. That is how Patriotic I am, and all ways will be.

It is also being respectful.

I hate our Government right now, it is corrupt. But, I love my Country, and will defend it, including showing respect.

Edited May 19, 2014 by Sakari

[+OverSword]

So there is nothing in your life that you are so passionate about that would warrant physical force?

Yes, defending myself against physical force. Edited May 19, 2014 by OverSword

[+OverSword]

snip

Edited May 19, 2014 by OverSword

[Sakari]

With the tragedy of 9/11 behind us, and Veterans Day on the way, the nation’s hearts are on fire. The average high school student can testify that there is at least one person in their class who does not say the pledge; some don’t even stand.

“The Pledge of Allegiance” stands for freedom. The flag stands for the fallen soldiers. When you say “The Pledge of Allegiance” you are agreeing to the freedoms you attain. Freedoms you obtained from the many who have fallen before you.

Many have given the ultimate sacrifice so that each individual in the United States of America, regardless of that individual’s legal status of citizenship, could have the right and freedom to speak freely about their views and beliefs. Thirty seconds is the average time the pledge takes. In thirty seconds a soldier can take their last breaths as his or her life flashes past. What is the argument against standing for 30 seconds?

“I don’t think many kids understand what they’re saying,” history teacher Mark Heintz said.

The pledge merely voices what the flag represents. The flag represents our country in all its diversity. Our right to choose what we say. How would you feel if you weren’t allowed to speak anymore?

People are confusing what the pledge stands for with todays media. The pledge is you promising loyalty to this country. It does not state one’s political stance nor does it dictate one’s religious beliefs. “One Nation” means all of us, immigrant or not, religious or not, together as one.

If still you feel as you cannot be bothered to say the pledge in all its thirty seconds of glory, please stand. Stand for the fallen, stand for the brave, stand out of respect. I’m not asking you to state the pledge because you have to.

You do not have to say the pledge because you were given the freedom to chose what you say. This great freedom was not free. It was not an accident nor a hidden clause.

What’s worse is the fact that most students don’t stand, or the fact that most are forced to stand. Teachers, students and soldiers find it upsetting that other students don’t understand the symbology of the pledge.

“I do find it disrespectful to not at a minimum stand and stop what you are doing while others cite the pledge of allegiance,” SSgt Kuchar III Joseph F United States Marine Corps said.

[Odin11]

I don't think people are getting this " punching people ".....

No... we get it. You lack the maturity to think and act like an adult.

This is funny.

2 people here are very passionate and love their Country that much. And others are trying to tell us we are wrong for feeling that way?

Who are any of you to tell us our passion, belief, and opinion on our love for our Country are wrong?

Hypocrisy?

Look, I get p***ed, and voice it, and would get physical,( depending on how bad it got ) when people talk during the National Anthem. That is how Patriotic I am, and all ways will be.

It is also being respectful.

I hate our Government right now, it is corrupt. But, I love my Country, and will defend it, including showing respect.

You're not defending or respecting your country by acting like a thug.

You talk a lot about respect, but then say you would physically attack someone for saying something that you don't like. That shows a lack of respect to what this country was founded on.

Edited May 19, 2014 by Odin11

[Sakari]

This says it very well, in my opinion.....

Before we get to the particulars of Doug’s response, I’d like to pause for a moment for a private word with young Mason Michalec. Look, Mason, there’s a lot of things I don’t care for which go on on the country myself. Of course, there’s a lot more that I treasure. The things I don’t like, I work to change as best I can within the confines of the law. But through it all, I don’t lose sight of the fact that this is our country, and for all of its warts and blemishes, it’s still the best one on the planet. Try to keep hold of that, son, no matter what your parents are pushing this week.

http://hotair.com/archives/2014/05/10/more-on-the-texas-student-suspended-for-not-standing-for-the-pledge/

Edited May 19, 2014 by Saru
Added source link

[Sakari]

No... we get it. You lack the maturity to think and act like an adult.

You're not defending or respecting your country by acting like a thug.

You do not read well do you?

Hint : " when I was going to School if this happened "........

I am 48 now.

And, I have not once resorted to calling you names, or flame baiting. As you have. I believe and know that you have shown your lack of Maturity in print. So, enough with the name calling, and throwing rocks in glass houses.

[Sakari]

I wouldn't have a husband that would resort to violence unless we were in physical danger.

You are in a corner seat for Dinner, or at the end of a bar. Some guy grabs your ass ( not in physical danger ), goes off on how bad he would like to do things to you, in detail. Does not stop, and keeps going, very vulgar....

I find it hard to believe any man would even be able to hold back on that. But hey, Kudos to him if he could.

[Odin11]

This says it very well, in my opinion.....

I thought you said "At 15 years old, he should know the meaning. He has had History, and is 3 years away from being an adult." so which is it: is he a child or old enough to know the meaning?

You just don't get it do you? Making the pledge mandatory would make it meaningless.

[Odin11]

You do not read well do you?

Hint : " when I was going to School if this happened "........

I am 48 now.

And, I have not once resorted to calling you names, or flame baiting. As you have. I believe and know that you have shown your lack of Maturity in print. So, enough with the name calling, and throwing rocks in glass houses.

In almost every one of your posts on this topic you talk about using physical force in response to mere words. Calling out someone for being immature is not being immature. No more then calling someone out for intolerance is itself intolerance.

The thug part was directed at all people who think that physical force is an appropriate response to a non-physical altercation (no matter what age). Sorry that I did not make that clear. And I can think of no nicer word for somebody that would attack someone else for words than, thug.

[Sakari]

I thought you said "At 15 years old, he should know the meaning. He has had History, and is 3 years away from being an adult." so which is it: is he a child or old enough to know the meaning?

You just don't get it do you? Making the pledge mandatory would make it meaningless.

Did I say it should be mandatory, or did I say I think out of respect, and love for the Country, one should be saying it?

Someone should not have to be forced to understand it's meaning, and Pledge when a flag is being raised, or to a Flag being recognized. It is respect, and loyalty.

If one does not believe that pledge, they should be considering moving some where where they would believe in their home Country.

Other countries have a pledge of allegiance. Some countries refer to the pledge of allegiance in various terms. Some of the common names used include, loyalty pledge, oaths of allegiance as well as oaths of citizenship.

You just do not get where my opinion is. And, no matter how hard you try, you will not change mine.

[Sakari]

Sorry that I did not make that clear. And I can think of no nicer word for somebody that would attack someone else for words than, thug.

It is not about words, it is about actions.

There were about 1500 thugs in my High School, under your description. And, in High School, how many " ass whoopings " happened for any different scenario at any given School, any given year?

I said I am now 48, I also said " when I went to School ". I may have also said " if I were seeing this in School today ". Meaning if I were 15, and in School.

Would I just start kicking someones Ass now for not standing for the Pledge?....Depends on what happened after I explained how rude it is, or if I even needed to as someone else surely would have attempted to. Not to mention, I am not exactly young anymore, and would most likely end up with the ass whooping.

I would voice my opinion, loudly.

I, as I said, would not be surprised to see others get physical,( could be just making that person uncomfortable enough to leave ) at the least, the events I go to.

Edited May 19, 2014 by Sakari

[Babe Ruth]

So if someone calls you an ********, are you going to just sit back and take it because it is their right to do so? I really feel like you are disregarding my freedom of speech by saying that my opinion is wrong. I would greatly appreciate it if you stopped right now, as I feel you are not appreciating the concept of freedom of speech. Pretty please.

I would say that technically you are correct--if you are actually free as we claim, then you are free to kill others, burn buildings, and do whatever your little heart desires.

But in so doing you reveal your very confused moral compass, spinning most likely. In doing so you reveal your lack of conscience.

[Likely Guy]

To try and get this thread back on topic - I've gone back and read the original article from the OP. It says that, "He stopped saying the pledge earlier this school year and hasn't had a problem. But when announcements were moved to a different period on Wednesday, a new teacher spotted him sitting down during the recitation."

That's when he got into trouble and the principal suspended him. This 'school policy' seems not to be a policy at all and is handled in a very arbitrary manner. It's no wonder the school hasn't returned a comment, they don't have their **** together.

[Odin11]

Did I say it should be mandatory, or did I say I think out of respect, and love for the Country, one should be saying it?

Someone should not have to be forced to understand it's meaning, and Pledge when a flag is being raised, or to a Flag being recognized. It is respect, and loyalty.

If one does not believe that pledge, they should be considering moving some where where they would believe in their home Country.

Other countries have a pledge of allegiance. Some countries refer to the pledge of allegiance in various terms. Some of the common names used include, loyalty pledge, oaths of allegiance as well as oaths of citizenship.

You just do not get where my opinion is. And, no matter how hard you try, you will not change mine.

You post #210 says it should be mandatory.

How does a 15 year old have the means to leave the country that he just happen to be born in?

I get what your opinion is, you think that a pledge equals loyaity and respect. All I'm saying is that saying 2,000 times makes it lose its meaning.

[Michelle]

You are in a corner seat for Dinner, or at the end of a bar. Some guy grabs your ass ( not in physical danger ), goes off on how bad he would like to do things to you, in detail. Does not stop, and keeps going, very vulgar....

I find it hard to believe any man would even be able to hold back on that. But hey, Kudos to him if he could.

How far can you stretch something?

[Sakari]

How far can you stretch something?

LOL...I know.

[Sakari]

You post #210 says it should be mandatory.

No, I said that guys write up says it very well.And, after reading all of this more, I do lean that way.

How does a 15 year old have the means to leave the country that he just happen to be born in?

If he hates it so bad, he can work his way to that. Hell, maybe we can set up a fund for people like that.We are over crowded as it is, in my opinion, if people do not love it here ( anywhere ) then leave.There are plenty of people that would love to take their places, and have their oppurtunities.

I get what your opinion is, you think that a pledge equals loyaity and respect. All I'm saying is that saying 2,000 times makes it lose its meaning.

Tell that to people that are religious, and Pray every Night.

[spartan max2]

Once again I would like to point out there is a difference between harassment and not standing for the pledge.

[supervike]

This is funny.

2 people here are very passionate and love their Country that much. And others are trying to tell us we are wrong for feeling that way?

Who are any of you to tell us our passion, belief, and opinion on our love for our Country are wrong?

Hypocrisy?

You are missing the entire point of the debate (IMHO).

It's not about being passionate. It's not about whether or not you agree with this kid.

It's about his right to do so.

That's what makes me proud of this country. If you want to speak out (or not) against the country, you are free to do so.

But, personally, I don't understand why you or AgentOrange care so much about this random kid and his protest?

Why would it honestly bother you? If he stood up and made a mockery of the whole thing, I could understand a bit better, (although I'd still support his right to do so)

I guess I'm secure enough in my patriotism to not have to shove it down other's throats.

[Odin11]

No, I said that guys write up says it very well.And, after reading all of this more, I do lean that way.

I'm not going to argue semantics.

Tell that to people that are religious, and Pray every Night

I do.

Edited May 19, 2014 by Odin11