How can anyone believe in God?

[simplybill]

Stormbay -

Then how do you explain the hospitals, such as: Lutheran Hospital, Mercy Hospital, Methodist Hospital, etc.

I don't recall ever having seen Athiest Hospital, Agnostic Hospital, New Age Hospital, etc.

That's called propaganda. I through out an inane statement and smeared an entire group of people. I could now easily steer the entire conversation by giving everyone a rabbit to chase. It happens a lot on this website.

Just for the record, there are plenty of charitable organizations that don't ascribe to a particular faith: Doctors Without Borders, Goodwill Industries, The USO, etc.

[redhen]

I've seen these childish "arguments" from atheists far too many times now, and frankly, it's embarrassing.

They throw out some silly strawman argument like a "Skydaddy" and then proceed to deftly knock it down.

All revealed religions come down to faith, but I don't see anyone mocking Jains, Buddhists or Bahai's ?

[freetoroam]

Just for the record, there are plenty of charitable organizations that don't ascribe to a particular faith: Doctors Without Borders, Goodwill Industries, The USO, etc.

No one is saying there is not, you are the one who brought up the religious thing, I just pointed out WHY they keep their religious names.

Those without religious names OBVIOUSLY are not religious based, but it does not mean they can not be charity run either. Charity does not rotate round religious people only, jeeeze, non believers can also want to help their fellow man too!

Edited May 26, 2014 by freetoroam

[Davros of Skaro]

Try understanding WHAT the imagery of the cross represents before linking to a video that completely contradicts standard interpretation!!!

The Cross is the symbol for the Magic Blood that makes salvation possible for those that believe.

Mark 14:24

24 And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.

Matthew 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Luke 22:20

20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

John 6:54

Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Hebrews 9:12

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

1 Peter 1:18-20

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

1 John 1:7

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Revelation 1:5

And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

[simplybill]

No one is saying there is not, you are the one who brought up the religious thing, I just pointed out WHY they keep their religious names.

Those without religious names OBVIOUSLY are not religious based, but it does not mean they can not be charity run either. Charity does not rotate round religious people only, jeeeze, non believers can also want to help their fellow man too!

It was this particular piece of propaganda that led to my impatient rant:

"This is completely the opposite to the historical facts, it is only ideological humans who are easily described as evil. There is not one day, week, decade, century, or history, during the era of the god cult which has shown any from of compassion care or ethical love towards life on the planet. It's a war on everything from these primitive minds."

I enjoy a good debate, but propaganda has no place here (or anywhere).

[Davros of Skaro]

I've seen these childish "arguments" from atheists far too many times now, and frankly, it's embarrassing.

They throw out some silly strawman argument like a "Skydaddy" and then proceed to deftly knock it down.

All revealed religions come down to faith, but I don't see anyone mocking Jains, Buddhists or Bahai's ?

Christians should be happy because it means the second coming is just around the corner.

Poor Jains, Buddhists, and Bahai's do not have a second coming where a Cloud King is going to refurnish the place?

[simplybill]

Davros -

Regarding your post #104 -

Many of us believers see those references to blood in the same way Americans see Memorial Day: it's a symbol of the ultimate sacrifice. Just as our military personnel put their lives on the line so we can enjoy our freedom, Jesus put His life on the line so we can enjoy spiritual freedom.

Regarding post #106 -

If we Christians were happy about what's coming, we wouldn't be here trying to convince you to take it seriously. We actually do care about you guys (and gals).

[freetoroam]

It was this particular piece of propaganda that led to my impatient rant:

"This is completely the opposite to the historical facts, it is only ideological humans who are easily described as evil. There is not one day, week, decade, century, or history, during the era of the god cult which has shown any from of compassion care or ethical love towards life on the planet. It's a war on everything from these primitive minds."

I enjoy a good debate, but propaganda has no place here (or anywhere).

Yep, i can see that, to say this "There is not one day, week, decade, century, or history, during the era of the god cult which has shown any from of compassion care or ethical love towards life on the planet" is pretty stuuuuupid!!. Although I am one to say many wars have been over religion, I also know some very good religious people. My mothers Godmother was a missionary nun, and she was an absolutely remarkable woman. Extremely religious, her life dedicated to god, but also dedicated to helping others. She spent many years in the Congo, but eventually left after contracting hepatitis. She is now in her 90`s , blind and her only wish now is be with her god.

As I said, I am not religious, but from a very young age, seeing her dedication and kindness has always had me in awe, her faith was her life and no matter what my views are on religion, she has my utmost respect......so do all those like her.

[shadowhive]

Regarding post #106

If we Christians were happy about what's coming, we wouldn't be here trying to convince you to take it seriously. We actually do care about you guys (and gals).

I find odd that christians choose to believe in something as terrible as the second coming is supposed to be. Anyone should consider something so horrible to be a bad thing, not a reason to believe.

[stormbay]

This is the second time you've referred to God-believers as holding an "infantile psychopathy", and that's just in this thread. Normally I'd suggest right now that regardless of personal beliefs, the site rules require you to respect what others believe, even if you don't share it. However, going by everything you've written in your posts, it's obvious to any reading that you have absolutely no idea what believers think or feel that it's better to just leave it - the parody of belief you've presented is enough to show everyone else how clueless you are as to what believers think about their religious ideologies.

Edit: I was just reading another thread in which you share experience of being locked in a form of "church prison" and beaten until you hopefully submitted to their will. First, I'd suggest seeking legal counsel for illegal actions taken against you (it may stop similar things happening to others who went through what you did). Secondly, I'd point out here that your experiences are an EXTREME MINORITY, and to judge all believers based on your unfortunate experience will (unfortunately for you) simply lead to people such as myself dismissing your views as totally unrepresentative of religious ideology.

Judging majorities by the actions of minorities tends to do that. Just saying

Thought this was a skeptics topic, but it seems believers have control over every topic and are willing to censure and not respect what non believers post, which is not personally directed and supported by verifiable facts. Facing the truth is something believers seem loathe and unable to do, in any way.Respect goes both ways, something you don't see from believers, just threats of damnation and elitism. It's perfectly understandable believers are in deep denial of their beliefs own reality, just ask the indigenous peoples of the planet how they have been treated by this evil mythology. Having worked in hospices and terminal wards, have a good understanding of how many people react when approaching their end and it's nothing like what is depicted by the cult.A child will create a lie or fantasy to cover up their truth and will deny the facts to avoid the reality. Believers lie to cover up the emptiness of veracity surrounding their beliefs and psychopathically deny the reality that surrounds them.What I posted are easily discovered facts, documented by religion around the planet and happening every day since the existence of the god cult.The slaughter, torture, genocide, invasion, abuse of children, women and the poor over the life of the god belief, is very well documented in every country and goes on today unabated in many. There are any number of investigations into the horrid abuse carried out by every faction of the god belief against children and other unfortunates, who feel the wrath of gods believers.My experience in the god cult was through my indigenous culture, not as bad as others as I was a fighter and have been through supposed mediation with the church, with the same denial, disdain and elitist discrimination. Like many, studied all the claims of god faction books and none fit any of the facts, not one piece of supporting evidence, nothing anywhere. All it did was reinforce mine and all others involved, that believers in god are what I describe, they try to give one impression of what they are, but when confronted with their reality, go berserk and reveal their true selves.. The majority of believers in god are exactly the same, completely in denial of reality and completely dedicated to living life in the most environmentally destructive way. Which if this god created everything, why are it's believers destroying its creation as fast as they can. This belief has been around less than 2000 years, yet it has brought life on the planet to the brink of extinction during that minuscule time in the life of the earth. My post was in general and not in any way a personal attack, yours is of denial, attempts to personally denigrate, attack and threaten, which is the way believers are towards all those who challenge their veracity. Apologetics, denial, attempts at belittlement and expressions of superior secret knowledge, all fail in the face of reality. Indignation is another infantile failing used pathetically by god believers, logical evolving humans see it for what it is, another form of denial.

[libstaK]

Logical evolving humans recognize a broad based vitriolic diatribe for what it is, short on fact long on rhetoric and chock filled with hate. It seems the human condition can be denigrated to the lowest common denominator if that is what we wish to see of it, such a shame.

[freetoroam]

The majority of believers in god are exactly the same, completely in denial of reality and completely dedicated to living life in the most environmentally destructive way.

I am not religious, I am a lover of nature, but so too are some religious people. Those who are destroying our planet are not all religious people, a lot of the human race are destroying this planet because of selfishness. If you want to say someone is environmentally destroying life on this planet, then we can start with property developers.

Although I am not religious, there are some religious people who do get my respect, like some musicians do, I may not like their music, but if they play it or sing it well, then I will respect that.

A good chef, I may not like the menu, but the fact they can make something special, gains my respect.

If someone attacked something which you love to do, be it playing a video game, or running or skydiving, whatever! you will defend your passion.

I question the beliefs because I like to hear why people believe, there are many different reasons.....and the reasons do not all boil down to destroying life, if they do, then we enter a whole different kind of debate.

I see this is yours too:

"There is not one day, week, decade, century, or history, during the era of the god cult which has shown any from of compassion care or ethical love towards life on the planet."

I actually pity people who think this way, it is not healthy. I only hope that you find something which can guide you towards education and respect, obviously finding god is not for you, (its not for me either) but with this kind of statement i can only think you have so far found brick walls.

I am one to say that most wars have been started over religion, but it does not mean all religious people have condoned it.

Edited May 26, 2014 by freetoroam

[stormbay]

Stormbay -

Then how do you explain the hospitals, such as: Lutheran Hospital, Mercy Hospital, Methodist Hospital, etc.

I don't recall ever having seen Athiest Hospital, Agnostic Hospital, New Age Hospital, etc.

Judeo-Christian culture actually works in real life, in every sense of the word. Athiesm, on the other hand, can only make gains by usurping those institutions that were established with the Judeo-Christian principles.

What's an atheist hospital or agnostic hospital, you are forgetting the majority of hospitals in secular countries are not controlled by religion at all. A new age hospital would be a preventive medicine, re-learning life style and diet institution. Not a place for pharmaceutical and medical profession profit growth.Believers only show compassion when it may get them something, like money, power, control over others and in the good books of their supposed god. They believe the more they show repentance and compassion after the act, the better god will like them. The OT, torah and koran are perfect expressions of how god believers have approached life, since its invention.God believers invaded Aus, Africa, Europe, the America's, Middle east, Asia and wiped out indigenous cultures, lifestyles, destroyed environments for power, greed and gluttony. Then claim the dying poverty stricken indigenous should thank them and their god for saving them, from sustainable lifestyles and non invasive cultures.Every county on the planet under the control of a belief in god or other ideology, is rampant with violence, suppression, crime, poverty and economic elitism, all controlled by believers in god.

[stormbay]

I've seen these childish "arguments" from atheists far too many times now, and frankly, it's embarrassing.

They throw out some silly strawman argument like a "Skydaddy" and then proceed to deftly knock it down.

All revealed religions come down to faith, but I don't see anyone mocking Jains, Buddhists or Bahai's ?

The only real difference between all beliefs in afterlives etc, is in the name. When viewed in reality they operate the same, just with different facades. That's why I use the term believers, ascribe it to all living in fairy land mentality. No different to communism or other warped supremacist beliefs and factions of beliefs proliferating around the planet and destroying it.

[stormbay]

It was this particular piece of propaganda that led to my impatient rant:

"This is completely the opposite to the historical facts, it is only ideological humans who are easily described as evil. There is not one day, week, decade, century, or history, during the era of the god cult which has shown any from of compassion care or ethical love towards life on the planet. It's a war on everything from these primitive minds."

I enjoy a good debate, but propaganda has no place here (or anywhere).

All you have to do is provde evidence to support it's not propaganda and you can prove the opposite, with verfiabe facts and not just religious denial and empty aplogetics. The entire beleif in god/s and the claims surrounding it, is propganda and not fact. All you have to do is provide evidence proving the opposite to the documented reallity.

[stormbay]

Yep, i can see that, to say this "There is not one day, week, decade, century, or history, during the era of the god cult which has shown any from of compassion care or ethical love towards life on the planet" is pretty stuuuuupid!!. Although I am one to say many wars have been over religion, I also know some very good religious people. My mothers Godmother was a missionary nun, and she was an absolutely remarkable woman. Extremely religious, her life dedicated to god, but also dedicated to helping others. She spent many years in the Congo, but eventually left after contracting hepatitis. She is now in her 90`s , blind and her only wish now is be with her god.

As I said, I am not religious, but from a very young age, seeing her dedication and kindness has always had me in awe, her faith was her life and no matter what my views are on religion, she has my utmost respect......so do all those like her.

It was followers of god who invaded the Congo in the first place, introduced deadly disease, stole their lands and slaughtered them in the beginning. How can you claim to be caring and loving, when it was your own ilk who did the dirty work in the first place and created all the problems the Congolese face and continue to contend with. Now the Congo is a festering religious war zone, rampant elitism, poverty, suppression, violence and murder. No different to every culture invaded by believers in god and other ideologies throughout history. The majority of Africa and the middle east is in a god cult factional war and it's spreading again across the planet, all just to prove who is the best implementer of gods word.Spent a lot of my youth observing the performances of preachers, nuns and other religious wardens in their treatment towards those supposedly in their care. Compared to how they performed in front of the general public and authorities, until you've been part of it, you don't have a clue.

[redhen]

Poor Jains, Buddhists, and Bahai's do not have a second coming where a Cloud King is going to refurnish the place?

Stay classy! Thanks for proving my point.

[redhen]

The only real difference between all beliefs in afterlives etc, is in the name. When viewed in reality they operate the same, just with different facades.

That's not the case. Have you read any comparative religion books?

[stormbay]

That's not the case. Have you read any comparative religion books?

It has nothing to do with religious books, it has to do with approach, application and outcomes in life. Make a point of researching and understanding a subject before commenting on it. With religion, it's been a long research to the point where there was nothing to support anything the religious claim and when compared to their life application, the complete opposite of their claims.Buddhism like all beliefs, has some admirable doctrine, but the application and outcomes are the opposite and no different to any other fanciful belief in fairy land gods and airy fairy spirituality.

[Davros of Skaro]

Davros -

Regarding your post #104 -

Many of us believers see those references to blood in the same way Americans see Memorial Day: it's a symbol of the ultimate sacrifice. Just as our military personnel put their lives on the line so we can enjoy our freedom, Jesus put His life on the line so we can enjoy spiritual freedom.

Regarding post #106 -

If we Christians were happy about what's coming, we wouldn't be here trying to convince you to take it seriously. We actually do care about you guys (and gals).

Enjoy your death cult.

[+Link of Hyrule]

I don't think he/she is misrepresenting a believer's pov, he's sharing his opinion on what believer's are actually doing. Outside of the claim that I suspect is false about the relative degree of medication between believers and non-, and possibly his reference to 'believer's deceiving' (and that depends on the definition), all his statements are from his pov; I think most people understand that believers themselves think God's the best and all that. Whether he's being too disrespectful I don't know, I think that's a fuzzy and vague, and possibly unnecessary, rule in the first place.

As far as his possibly painting with far too wide a critical brush concerning believers, which I happen to agree with you on, let's keep in mind that the Bible isn't exactly known for it's precision with its sweeping characterizations either; I am a 'fool', and one of the swine to whom the pearls should not be cast before, etc.

I was in the middle of replying to this last night when my phone's battery ran out. As noted in my edit of an earlier post it seems that Stormbay's previous history with believers is colouring his perceptions of all believers, and I'm attempting to point out that the majority aren't like what they experienced, and posting as if it is the norm isn't going to help things.

To use an analogy, imagine I was caught in a football riot, my wife/child/whatever (if I had a wife or child) was beaten by the crowd and killed. If I then went on to football forums and said that football fans are all hooligans who get drunk and overturn cars and beat innocent bystanders what would be the response? The majority would acknowledge that I've experienced a great hurt because of the actions of a minority, but that most football fans are normal people like everyone else, just as prone to good or evil. If I continue to post my views and characterise all football supporters as violent thugs, it's understandable that the football supporter community will dismiss me. The non-supporter who just joined the forum to talk about the upcoming FIFA World Cup and how their team might fare, they'll read my rants and see them for what they are - the disenfranchised rantings of a man hurt by a small minority and projecting my pain on to all who associate with the footballing world.

That's how I see Stormbay's rants. They display an extreme reaction of a minority, and apply it to the majority. Most who read it will come to the same conclusion.

[+Link of Hyrule]

Thought this was a skeptics topic, but it seems believers have control over every topic and are willing to censure and not respect what non believers post

The majority of what you posted here is more of the same rhetoric you've posted in every other post you've made so far, but I'd like to address this. Of particular note, this is not about controlling a topic, and certainly not about censorship or respect. I have never disrespected you. In contrast, you have called all believers infantile psychopaths. You have further noted that among preachers, pathological psychopathy and chronic psychosis are the norm. Since I have preached at the pulpit in my time as a Christian (as well as worked as Bible Study leader for several years), and even if you don't include my name in this list many of my friends from church have moved in to ministerial roles where they take care of a congregation, you have disrespected them all in your statement. This IS the skeptic-vs-believer section of the board, but that doesn't mean you can toss respect out the window (note at the top of the page of the SvS board there are forum guidelines highlighted that ask that you respect the beliefs of other members). I have never attacked you or your non-beliefs in any way, yet right from the start you have attacked my views and then have the gall to accuse me of not respecting you when you were called out on it.

You seem to have a very large chip on your shoulder, Stormbay. You've noted that you are of indigenous heritage, so I'm going to guess your culture was screwed over by Christian settlers (perhaps such as the Native Americans or Aboriginal Australians). I won't deny that either culture was not royally screwed by Christians. Every group in history that gains power is not immune to things like this. However, modern Christians are no more responsible for this than modern Germans are responsible for Hitler and the Nazi Party. I'm an Australian, I play poker every Friday night with Aboriginal Australians at my local Bowling Club (the girl who runs it is of Aboriginal heritage also). I'm also a Christian, and I bear absolutely no responsibility for what my ancestors may have done to them or their ancestors.

It sounds like you're blaming all believers for what happened to you, and while you may feel justified in doing so, an impartial observer will notice that you're just an individual bitter at the experiences of what some people have done to you. I don't say that to belittle you or diminish your experiences. Whatever happened to you was obviously a painful experience, and I sympathise with you. If there were something I could do to help change things, I would, but the past is the past, we can only learn from it to ensure it doesn't happen again. I'm just sharing what I see.

~ Regards, PA

[freetoroam]

It was followers of god who invaded the Congo in the first place, introduced deadly disease, stole their lands and slaughtered them in the beginning. How can you claim to be caring and loving, when it was your own ilk who did the dirty work in the first place and created all the problems the Congolese face and continue to contend with. Now the Congo is a festering religious war zone, rampant elitism, poverty, suppression, violence and murder. No different to every culture invaded by believers in god and other ideologies throughout history. The majority of Africa and the middle east is in a god cult factional war and it's spreading again across the planet, all just to prove who is the best implementer of gods word.Spent a lot of my youth observing the performances of preachers, nuns and other religious wardens in their treatment towards those supposedly in their care. Compared to how they performed in front of the general public and authorities, until you've been part of it, you don't have a clue.

So now you are going tell me the god followers went and turned a civilized and peace loving group of people into warlords?

All the African warlords were manipulated by god followers?

Slaves in Egypt......you know thats in Africa....did the Egyptians have slaves because god followers from the land of "ilk" invade and tell them to?

Did Africa have no gods until the god followers from "ilk" went there? Thats what you seem to be implying.

Please explain what you mean by "your own ilk" as I am not religious and have made that bit clear, what do you mean by own ilk?

Edited May 27, 2014 by freetoroam

[redhen]

It has nothing to do with religious books, it has to do with approach, application and outcomes in life.

Sorry, I should have said academic comparative religion courses. You said "The only real difference between all beliefs in afterlives etc, is in the name. When viewed in reality they operate the same, just with different facades." That's not so. There are vast differences in indigenous religions and revealed religions, for one example.

[stormbay]

The majority of what you posted here is more of the same rhetoric you've posted in every other post you've made so far, but I'd like to address this. Of particular note, this is not about controlling a topic, and certainly not about censorship or respect. I have never disrespected you. In contrast, you have called all believers infantile psychopaths. You have further noted that among preachers, pathological psychopathy and chronic psychosis are the norm. Since I have preached at the pulpit in my time as a Christian (as well as worked as Bible Study leader for several years), and even if you don't include my name in this list many of my friends from church have moved in to ministerial roles where they take care of a congregation, you have disrespected them all in your statement. This IS the skeptic-vs-believer section of the board, but that doesn't mean you can toss respect out the window (note at the top of the page of the SvS board there are forum guidelines highlighted that ask that you respect the beliefs of other members). I have never attacked you or your non-beliefs in any way, yet right from the start you have attacked my views and then have the gall to accuse me of not respecting you when you were called out on it.

You seem to have a very large chip on your shoulder, Stormbay. You've noted that you are of indigenous heritage, so I'm going to guess your culture was screwed over by Christian settlers (perhaps such as the Native Americans or Aboriginal Australians). I won't deny that either culture was not royally screwed by Christians. Every group in history that gains power is not immune to things like this. However, modern Christians are no more responsible for this than modern Germans are responsible for Hitler and the Nazi Party. I'm an Australian, I play poker every Friday night with Aboriginal Australians at my local Bowling Club (the girl who runs it is of Aboriginal heritage also). I'm also a Christian, and I bear absolutely no responsibility for what my ancestors may have done to them or their ancestors.

It sounds like you're blaming all believers for what happened to you, and while you may feel justified in doing so, an impartial observer will notice that you're just an individual bitter at the experiences of what some people have done to you. I don't say that to belittle you or diminish your experiences. Whatever happened to you was obviously a painful experience, and I sympathise with you. If there were something I could do to help change things, I would, but the past is the past, we can only learn from it to ensure it doesn't happen again. I'm just sharing what I see.

~ Regards, PA

Hilarious, just apologetics and personal attacks and where did I ever refer to you in my posts. There are many I talk to who are semi believers who don't associate themselves with what I say, they have no guilt about their approach to their lives and are confused at what their church tells them and reality. The fervent, have so much guilt, as soon as something is mentioned which irritates the denial of their own reality, they attack. I explained the definition of infantile psychopathy and how it relates to the belief in god/s, but your indoctrinated denial refuses to accept scientific psychological definitions and the syptoms associated with them.

I'm indigenous Australian, my experience not only covers indigenous injustice, but also the injustice done to European children by the followers of god in Aus and it goes on unabated every day across the nation.

There is no chip on my shoulder, just a load of overbearing facts as to the reality of the god cult and their claims, which are entirely the opposite to each other.

All that's changed from past approaches of god followers, is the quality and destructive power of their war machines and economic suppressions. In the past the churches used violence to suppress dissent and opposition to their debauched approach to life. Now it's economic, commerce and military threats.

It's always convenient for believers to claim they have no responsibility for the past degeneracy of their belief. Yet ignore the current ongoing inter factional and cult wars going on between muslims, jews and christians on almost every continent on the planet.

The entire history of the the god belief and all it's factions is filled with violence and continues to day in every religious society. The USA is a prime example of how god cult societies operate, the only difference between it, sth American, middle east and African violence, is in the location and ferocity. The USA still has the highest mass and single murder rate on the planet, along with the highest incarceration rates, when you look at other god controlled countries, you find not much difference.

What I write is mostly the same, the god cult is bereft of fact, all they do is repeat themselves over and over sticking closely to their indoctrinated programming, so anything with logical meaning and fact, goes right over their head. Considering believers lives are revolving doors in merry go round existence, it's very hard to have a decent discussion with them, as all they can do is repeat the falsities of the bibles. There is no other form of support and the bibles have been proven to be completely false and just made up violent childish fairy tales.

They facts are, no chronological, anthropological, archaeological, geological, or historical documented and verifiable evidence to support any contention within the bible. All you have to do is provide verifiable evidence the opposite and the debate will be over. The add the fact the last part of the NT, is a determined violent threat to destroy all non belevers, or haven't you read revelations. So the aim of the god cult hasn't changed, just become more determined in achieving its fianl aim of wiping out non beleiving life, as laid out in all it's books and particarily the last chapter. Even your own books show the direction and actions beleivers will follow and be paret of. Not a bad example of the depth of believers denail and hypocricy