Shostak dismisses claims of alien visitation

[badeskov]

<snip>

He treat this place like his personal blog, not a discussion forum, and his insults are veiled to hit at peoples convictions whilst appearing innocent - playing dumb.

<snip>

That is the issue, is it not? Not his belief, but his lack of willingness to actually discuss the subject matter in any coherent way, shape or form. To me it is very obvious that he does not have the intellectual means to do so, thus his strategy.

Cheers,

Badeskov

[psyche101]

That is the issue, is it not? Not his belief, but his lack of willingness to actually discuss the subject matter in any coherent way, shape or form. To me it is very obvious that he does not have the intellectual means to do so, thus his strategy.

Cheers,

Badeskov

Indeed it is mate. Nail on the head. What we have seen is new people coming in not conversant with these underhanded tactics and think he is just a nice guy trying to speak his mind, which nobody seems to notice is welcomed from genuine inquiries. They are unaware of the long term torture he has put the regulars through and the veiled insults, as well as the total lack of respect for people far more accomplished than he such as Jim Oberg.

The tactic works with noobs, and gives him an excuse to ramble on with the same old same old, and post pictures of rock walls again, but does nothing to further discussion. Threads that are resolved are polluted with Zoser's "no I don't get it" playing dumb tactic. I hope we see some new people capable of rising above his BS and we get some decent discussion going again on subjects other than rocks walls and ancient aliens.

Thank Goodness you managed to stand your ground through this nonsense! It would be hard to do without our level headed approach mate!!

[psyche101]

Another thread killed...lame

It seems to have died a natural death. Shostak did say that he does not believe aliens have visited earth, which does not at all contradict his position at SETI nor does it change his original statement whereby he feels we may get ET contact in 20 years - which I have to say seems optimistic, but there you go.

If you have anything to add other than complaint, feel free to raise the bar. That would be far more productive than a complaint - if you feel this thread had more to offer, please don't hold back, your input is welcomed.

Edited May 28, 2014 by psyche101

[Occams Razor]

To be fair, what is the senior man at SETI going to say to a stupid Childish question like "But what about Ancient ALiens - you know the TV show?

Exactly.

Seriously, if Collins is EVER elected again by US voters, then they deserve every bloody misery they get.

How does one become a Congressman and yet remain so incredibly stupid??

Congressman Collins shows why the Political system is a failure.

You've lost me here... what has Shostak's comments regarding alien visitation got to do with a congressman?

I cannot say I am on board with the Galaxy Police stuff, but at least people base that ideal on covert claims from civilians, and not a dumbass TV show.

Well, 'galaxy police' is as good a term as any to describe who the visitors may be... if in fact there are any visitors.

[psyche101]

Exactly.

You've lost me here... what has Shostak's comments regarding alien visitation got to do with a congressman?

The Congressman was the one who brought up Ancient Aliens:

From the link:

The Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence, or SETI, may becoming more mainstream, as evidenced by this week’s House Science and Technology Committee hearing, which included testimony by two well-known SETI hunters, Seth Shostack and Dan Werthimer.

But the hearing took an odd turn when U.S. Rep. Chris Collins, a New York Republican, had the floor.

“I think I might ask the question everyone in this room wants to ask,” Collins said. “Have you watched ‘Ancient Aliens’ and what’s your comment about that series?”

The television show, broadcast on The History Channel, explores purported extraterrestrials’ visits to Earth over millions of years.

Shostack, senior scientist at the California-based SETI Institute, started off diplomatically.

“The public is fascinated with the idea that we may be being visited now, or may have been visited in the past, the so-called UFO phenomenon,” he said.

Then he got down to business:

“I personally don’t share the conviction that we are being visited. I don’t think that that would be something that all the governments of the world had managed to obfuscate — to keep secret. I don’t believe that.

Personally, I do not believe that "everyone in the room" wanted to ask that question. I think that because the congressman thought Fyfe Symington pulled it of and looked favourable with it that he thought he too might try that to grab some voting support via alien supporting friends. But came of looking a fool.

Well, 'galaxy police' is as good a term as any to describe who the visitors may be... if in fact there are any visitors.

I like to post this every now and then, not sure of you have seen it, but an amusing an interesting thought about aliens by author Terry Bisson: LINK

THEY'RE MADE OUT OF MEAT

"They're made out of meat."

"Meat?"

"Meat. They're made out of meat."

"Meat?"

"There's no doubt about it. We picked up several from different parts of the planet, took them aboard our recon vessels, and probed them all the way through. They're completely meat."

"That's impossible. What about the radio signals? The messages to the stars?"

"They use the radio waves to talk, but the signals don't come from them. The signals come from machines."

"So who made the machines? That's who we want to contact."

"They made the machines. That's what I'm trying to tell you. Meat made the machines."

"That's ridiculous. How can meat make a machine? You're asking me to believe in sentient meat."

"I'm not asking you, I'm telling you. These creatures are the only sentient race in that sector and they're made out of meat."

"Maybe they're like the orfolei. You know, a carbon-based intelligence that goes through a meat stage."

"Nope. They're born meat and they die meat. We studied them for several of their life spans, which didn't take long. Do you have any idea what's the life span of meat?"

"Spare me. Okay, maybe they're only part meat. You know, like the weddilei. A meat head with an electron plasma brain inside."

"Nope. We thought of that, since they do have meat heads, like the weddilei. But I told you, we probed them. They're meat all the way through."

"No brain?"

"Oh, there's a brain all right. It's just that the brain is made out of meat! That's what I've been trying to tell you."

"So ... what does the thinking?"

"You're not understanding, are you? You're refusing to deal with what I'm telling you. The brain does the thinking. The meat."

"Thinking meat! You're asking me to believe in thinking meat!"

"Yes, thinking meat! Conscious meat! Loving meat. Dreaming meat. The meat is the whole deal! Are you beginning to get the picture or do I have to start all over?"

"Omigod. You're serious then. They're made out of meat."

"Thank you. Finally. Yes. They are indeed made out of meat. And they've been trying to get in touch with us for almost a hundred of their years."

"Omigod. So what does this meat have in mind?"

"First it wants to talk to us. Then I imagine it wants to explore the Universe, contact other sentiences, swap ideas and information. The usual."

"We're supposed to talk to meat."

"That's the idea. That's the message they're sending out by radio. 'Hello. Anyone out there. Anybody home.' That sort of thing."

"They actually do talk, then. They use words, ideas, concepts?"

"Oh, yes. Except they do it with meat."

"I thought you just told me they used radio."

"They do, but what do you think is on the radio? Meat sounds. You know how when you slap or flap meat, it makes a noise? They talk by flapping their meat at each other. They can even sing by squirting air through their meat."

"Omigod. Singing meat. This is altogether too much. So what do you advise?"

"Officially or unofficially?"

"Both."

"Officially, we are required to contact, welcome and log in any and all sentient races or multibeings in this quadrant of the Universe, without prejudice, fear or favor. Unofficially, I advise that we erase the records and forget the whole thing."

"I was hoping you would say that."

"It seems harsh, but there is a limit. Do we really want to make contact with meat?"

"I agree one hundred percent. What's there to say? 'Hello, meat. How's it going?' But will this work? How many planets are we dealing with here?"

"Just one. They can travel to other planets in special meat containers, but they can't live on them. And being meat, they can only travel through C space. Which limits them to the speed of light and makes the possibility of their ever making contact pretty slim. Infinitesimal, in fact."

"So we just pretend there's no one home in the Universe."

"That's it."

"Cruel. But you said it yourself, who wants to meet meat? And the ones who have been aboard our vessels, the ones you probed? You're sure they won't remember?"

"They'll be considered crackpots if they do. We went into their heads and smoothed out their meat so that we're just a dream to them."

"A dream to meat! How strangely appropriate, that we should be meat's dream."

"And we marked the entire sector unoccupied."

"Good. Agreed, officially and unofficially. Case closed. Any others? Anyone interesting on that side of the galaxy?"

"Yes, a rather shy but sweet hydrogen core cluster intelligence in a class nine star in G445 zone. Was in contact two galactic rotations ago, wants to be friendly again."

"They always come around."

"And why not? Imagine how unbearably, how unutterably cold the Universe would be if one were all alone ..."

Edited June 2, 2014 by psyche101

[SaraT]

Doesn't believe we've been visited by extraterrestrials??? How crazy is that? He should be run off the planet!

[bee]

Doesn't believe we've been visited by extraterrestrials??? How crazy is that? He should be run off the planet!

What a super-duper plan....He should be sent to the Zeta Reticuli Star System IMMEDIATELY....

.

[sinewave]

Doesn't believe we've been visited by extraterrestrials??? How crazy is that? He should be run off the planet!

Belief is for sinners and sports fans. I'd rather know.

[Occams Razor]

The Congressman was the one who brought up Ancient Aliens:

Aha...

“I think I might ask the question everyone in this room wants to ask,” Collins said. “Have you watched ‘Ancient Aliens’ and what’s your comment about that series?”

I think a better question would be 'have you ever detected a signal that is such a good candidate that you suspect it is from ET?'

I think that because the congressman thought Fyfe Symington pulled it of and looked favourable with it that he thought he too might try that to grab some voting support via alien supporting friends.

This is quite an interesting statement... if he had no interest in the UFO subject he's unlikely to be familiar enough with the Fyfe Symington story to know he came off favourably. Careful Mr Shostak, your Freudian slip is showing.

THEY'RE MADE OUT OF MEAT

This is quite funny, thanks... remember what they say 'many a true word spoken in jest'.

Edited June 4, 2014 by Occams Razor

[psyche101]

Aha...

I think a better question would be 'have you ever detected a signal that is such a good candidate that you suspect it is from ET?'

I agree, but he would have the WOW! signal to fall back on that being discovered in a SETI project.

Something else I am quite interested in, but if you are going to ask questions, maybe best start a thread, I am nervously expecting a rap on the knuckles from the Mods for what we did to the Bob L Thread.

This is quite an interesting statement... if he had no interest in the UFO subject he's unlikely to be familiar enough with the Fyfe Symington story to know he came off favourably. Careful Mr Shostak, your Freudian slip is showing.

He obviously has an interest and no knowledge - if he watches and is aware of, and feels Ancient Alien bears mentioning to the Senior head at SETI, I think he has very likely watched too many UFO TV shows already. If he knows the Ancient Aliens show, I'd be willing to wager he knows about Phoenix and Fyfe. It gets rehashed in pretty every new UFO show that is on the telly.

This is quite funny, thanks... remember what they say 'many a true word spoken in jest'.

I rather enjoyed it, I like a lighthearted take, this place gets a bit too serious at times.

Edited June 4, 2014 by psyche101

[toast]

Doesn't believe we've been visited by extraterrestrials??? How crazy is that? He should be run off the planet!

That`s not crazy, that`s how science/reality works. No proved evidence = no proved event.

[TheGreatBeliever]

So basically what he's saying is, all the high-ranking military officers testifying in the Disclosure Project in 2001 and the Citizen Hearing in 2013 - they watch too many movies?

Seth should watch more alien movies

[zoser]

Seth should watch more alien movies

I watch em all the time on youtube. Not movies so much but documentaries about abductions and sightings. Brilliant stuff.

[psyche101]

I watch em all the time on youtube. Not movies so much but documentaries about abductions and sightings. Brilliant stuff.

No you don't.

documentary

dɒkjʊˈmɛnt(ə)ri/

adjective

• 
  1. consisting of or based on official documents.
  "documentary evidence of regular payments from the company"
  synonyms: recorded, documented, registered, written, chronicled, archived,archive, on record, in writing, on paper
  
• 
  2.
  using pictures or interviews with people involved in real events to provide a factual report on a particular subject.
  "a documentary programme about Manchester United"
  synonyms: factual, non-fictional, real-life, true to life, fact-based
  

• More
  
• 
  

noun

• 
  1.
  a film or television or radio programme that provides a factual report on a particular subject.
  synonyms: factual programme, factual film
  

Do note the bolded.

Edited June 12, 2014 by psyche101

[badeskov]

No you don't.

<snip>

I think we all know that Zoser doesn't have the intellectual means to recognize a documentary should it hop up and bite him in the knee. Anything that supports his beliefs is a "documentary"....

Cheers,

Badeskov

[psyche101]

I think we all know that Zoser doesn't have the intellectual means to recognize a documentary should it hop up and bite him in the knee. Anything that supports his beliefs is a "documentary"....

Cheers,

Badeskov

Well said.

I think he uses the term erroneously just to irk critical thinkers.

[badeskov]

Well said.

I think he uses the term erroneously just to irk critical thinkers.

Well, he is either a troll that has no life given his tenacity or he is truly ignorant of objective reality, and I must admit that I tend to believe the latter is the case.

Cheers,

Badeskov

[TheGreatBeliever]

I watch em all the time on youtube. Not movies so much but documentaries about abductions and sightings. Brilliant stuff.

Yeah me too bro. Especially the one on skinny bob. He just looks so real movement so fluid..

Edited June 12, 2014 by TheGreatBeliever

[Thorvir]

"documentaries"

I think he meant:

"mockumentaries"

Yeah, that's a better descriptor.

[badeskov]

"documentaries"

I think he meant:

"mockumentaries"

Yeah, that's a better descriptor.

Zoser wouldn't recognize a documentary should it kick his ****. Anything that is on youtube is a documentary as long as it does not contradict his absurd beliefs.

Cheers,

Badeskov

[Saitung]

Hey, what do you expect Shostak to say? “Uhm, yes, I believe based upon twenty thousand years of cave art, etchings, and the oldest writings known to man that we have been visited by ET’s in the past, and maybe even now?” The second he says that what little funding he gets for SETI would dry up. Remember, SETI is the organization the MILITARY abandoned. Hey, why pour their money into looking for something that's already found us? Shostak has to “Defend his Profession”. Every other Cosmologist on the planet worth the price of their diplomas, and are brave enough to do their own research have come away changed. They are convinced that something is going on and that there is cause for further investigation. Of every member of the Astrological Society, 46% of its members have seen UAP’s (Unidentified Areal Phenomena) and of the same group 65% thought the subject warranted further investigation. These numbers are from a survey sent out by Dr. Peter Sturrock, Astrophysicist, Stanford University. By the way, UFO's and ET's were seen far earlier than B-Movies and Kenneth Arnold, anyone stating otherwise, again, have not done any research or reading.

[badeskov]

Hey, what do you expect Shostak to say? “Uhm, yes, I believe based upon twenty thousand years of cave art, etchings, and the oldest writings known to man that we have been visited by ET’s in the past, and maybe even now?”

I personally expect Shostak to voice his honest opinion based on the evidence available. And sadly said evidence leads him to the conclusion he voiced.

The second he says that what little funding he gets for SETI would dry up. Remember, SETI is the organization the MILITARY abandoned. Hey, why pour their money into looking for something that's already found us?

You seriously believe that they wouldn't grab those people and close SETI down if they had really found ET? Seriously?!

Shostak has to “Defend his Profession”.

Every single scientist on this planet does this every day. Don't know much about science, do you?

Every other Cosmologist on the planet worth the price of their diplomas, and are brave enough to do their own research have come away changed. They are convinced that something is going on and that there is cause for further investigation.

Utter nonsense, which I know you don't have the means to substantiate.

Of every member of the Astrological Society, 46% of its members have seen UAP’s (Unidentified Areal Phenomena) and of the same group 65% thought the subject warranted further investigation.

Astrological?!?!?! You cannot by any means be serious in any, way shape or form. I presume you mean astronomical. Well, D'UH, they are looking into the skies, so why shouldn't the see stuff?

These numbers are from a survey sent out by Dr. Peter Sturrock, Astrophysicist, Stanford University. By the way, UFO's and ET's were seen far earlier than B-Movies and Kenneth Arnold, anyone stating otherwise, again, have not done any research or reading.

Of course UFOs were seen earlier, but what is interesting that most UFO descriptions follow popular TV shows. Doesn't that tell you something?

Cheers,

Badeskov

[DONTEATUS]

ITs really like a broken record, ITs way past any shape or form of actual intellect with our "Z" man,ITs not even funny anymore !

DId I mention that I make the BEst B.B.Q on Planet Earth?

[+Hammerclaw]

If Shostak started babbling about flying saucers and little green men with nothing more than anecdotal evidence, he'd be discredited and lose funding. Even so, SETI is a waste of time and resources. Any reasonably advanced civilization still utilizing speed of light communication, would use lasers not radio, in space, at least.

[+Hammerclaw]

ITs really like a broken record, ITs way past any shape or form of actual intellect with our "Z" man,ITs not even funny anymore !

DId I mention that I make the BEst B.B.Q on Planet Earth?

Great barbecue? Now your talking MY language! You must be an honest-to-God natural born Texacan.