[Merged] Infinite and eternal universe / multiverse

[Therammo 6]

Hello, Im new to this forum and I always was a huge fan of space and galaxies. However past 2-3 years Ive been extremely obsessed about the idea that we in fact might live in a multiverse. Ive read tons of books and Ive seen hundreds of videos talking about the fact that we are just a part of a multiverse that is infinite and eternal.

The problem I face with the idea of multiverse and infinity is that, if we in fact are just part of a recycling multiverse that has always existed and will exist for eternity, then we must face the fact that everything that CAN happen WILL eventually happen.

Lets make it more clear; If you play lottery, your chance of winning is like 1 out of few million, but if you played lottery each day for 1 million years, then you will MOST probably win lottery atleast once.

That being said, if we are living in infinite multiverse, then you will be King, sleep with Megan Fox, be president of USA, be most rich person in world, most handsome, most ugly ETC , ETC, ETC.

For people that doesnt have a clue what Im talking about, can watch ''Universe or Multiverse?''on youtube and check back when they understand

For those who understood my topic, I kindly ask you to post your answer or reply to this topic and tell me your thought about this and how you feel that if we are living in infinite multiverse that you will in fact be born again and experience everything that CAN by chance happen. (you will be king in one life, but in other you will be peasent, in third life you will be sick, in fourth life you will be healthy etc.. )

[Leonardo 10,402]

Hello Therammo, welcome to UM.

Your questions are interesting, if rather more philosophical in nature than scientific. We can never know if we live in a multiverse, because there is no way of 'measuring' what universe you currently occupy. We are even uncertain if the laws of physics are consistent throughout our own universe, so using those laws as the 'measure' of what universe we are in still leaves us uncertain.

So the question of whether we exist in a unique universe, or a multiverse of universes will forever remain one for philosophers rather than scientists.

As for the notion that, in a multiverse of infinite universes everything will occur - that is not necessarily true. It might be that an infinite number of "you's" exist - but they are all the same "you" - none of them are kings, or peasants, etc. Infinity does not equate to infinite variety.

As for your 'lottery' analogy, if you have a 1-in-a-million chance to win a lottery, then playing 1 million lottery games does not guarantee 1 win. Each 'play' is a separate event, and so you always only have a 1-in-a-million chance to win.

Edited June 4, 2014 by Leonardo

[Therammo 6]

Hello Therammo, welcome to UM.

Your questions are interesting, if rather more philosophical in nature than scientific. We can never know if we live in a multiverse, because there is no way of 'measuring' what universe you currently occupy. We are even uncertain if the laws of physics are consistent throughout our own universe, so using those laws as the 'measure' of what universe we are in still leaves us uncertain.

So the question of whether we exist in a unique universe, or a multiverse of universes will forever remain one for philosophers rather than scientists.

As for the notion that, in a multiverse of infinite universes everything will occur - that is not necessarily true. It might be that an infinite number of "you's" exist - but they are all the same "you" - none of them are kings, or peasants, etc. Infinity does not equate to infinite variety.

As for your 'lottery' analogy, if you have a 1-in-a-million chance to win a lottery, then playing 1 million lottery games does not guarantee 1 win. Each 'play' is a separate event, and so you always only have a 1-in-a-million chance to win.

Actually if everything is infinite and eternal, that means that anything you can imagine will or has already occured. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem <<<<< please read this.

[StarMountainKid 7,589]

The theories of Eternal Inflation and Many-Worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics both predict the existence of a multiverse. I think a multiverse is most likely, whatever the reason for its existence.

The alternative is our universe had no antecedents. If this were true, how does one explain the sudden appearance of the laws, fields and particles it is made of, and not some totally different ensamble? Of course, this does not answer the question of why these specific laws, fields and particles exist in an eternal multiverse.

As for your 'lottery' analogy, if you have a 1-in-a-million chance to win a lottery, then playing 1 million lottery games does not guarantee 1 win. Each 'play' is a separate event, and so you always only have a 1-in-a-million chance to win.

I wonder about this myself. If your statement were true, however, flipping a coin 1000 times would not result in a probability of 50% heads and 50% tails landing. Every flip would have a random result. The 50/50 result doesn't fit inside my head, but it seems to be true. It's like the coin knows to land 50/50.

Anyway, is an eternal multiverse infinite? It seems to me that it cannot be, as new universes are always being created. Look at it this way: if we look back in time the multiverse is infinite as there is no beginning, but if we look forward to the future, it cannot be infinite as, as I say, there will always be one more universe being created. The future has a boundry in time that exists at the last universe created (before the next one is created).

[Nighthawk9653 213]

I love this topic and the ideas around it, but the way I believe in the multiverse theory is that it's all happening simultaneously. Like, here in this dimension (or whatever you'd want to call it) I am sitting on my bed typing on a fancy little gadget. But in another dimension, I might be poor and be sitting outside doing something else. Then in another, maybe an apocalypse happened on December 21, 2012 and I'm dead, or barely surviving in the woods.

Like, every possibility that could ever have happened is happening, right at this very moment, but in other dimensions or whatever you wish to call them.

I've read a lot about this stuff, so you could also go the route of thinking of it like a continuously branching tree instead. From the moment of my birth, decisions were made, and each decision and it's consequences all branched off into their own world and the decision and consequences kept happening so there's a continuously branching system going on here.

But, those are two different kind of ways of thinking about it. I kind of prefer the first one, but we can't really choose. We can't prove them either- so I guess it's okay to not be completely right and to keep playing with the theories in our heads

Also, just to add, I don't think that we repeatedly get recycled into the same life over and over again, reliving every possibility, I think we move on to other lives..

But, just my thoughts.

Edited June 4, 2014 by Nighthawk9653

[Therammo 6]

I love this topic and the ideas around it, but the way I believe in the multiverse theory is that it's all happening simultaneously. Like, here in this dimension (or whatever you'd want to call it) I am sitting on my bed typing on a fancy little gadget. But in another dimension, I might be poor and be sitting outside doing something else. Then in another, maybe an apocalypse happened on December 21, 2012 and I'm dead, or barely surviving in the woods.

Like, every possibility that could ever have happened is happening, right at this very moment, but in other dimensions or whatever you wish to call them.

I've read a lot about this stuff, so you could also go the route of thinking of it like a continuously branching tree instead. From the moment of my birth, decisions were made, and each decision and it's consequences all branched off into their own world and the decision and consequences kept happening so there's a continuously branching system going on here.

But, those are two different kind of ways of thinking about it. I kind of prefer the first one, but we can't really choose. We can't prove them either- so I guess it's okay to not be completely right and to keep playing with the theories in our heads

Also, just to add, I don't think that we repeatedly get recycled into the same life over and over again, reliving every possibility, I think we move on to other lives..

But, just my thoughts.

Yes, the problem with this theory is, in other life or dimension you have aids, and you are imprisoned and tortured while you get sexually abused. Dont get me wrong, but everything that has a possibility will happen. And this thought just makes me sick and mad..

[StarMountainKid 7,589]

In a multiverse, why are you you in this universe? If there are other 'you's', why are you not one of them instead?

[Therammo 6]

In a multiverse, why are you you in this universe? If there are other 'you's', why are you not one of them instead?

Heard of dimensions before? Or maybe I already lived before this life, or my next life will be ?

[Gomar 40]

...And Hitler was killed in WWI; or he won WWII by not invading Russia;

or he was killed in 1943 by operation Valkyrie and his much smarter generals took over;

or USA wanted to defeat Russia and England and joined the Nazis;

or the Nazis built the A-bomb first;

or Napoleon had won;

or the Roman Empire never collapsed;

or Columbus' ship had sunk...

...or the meteor had missed Earth, thus, the dinosaurs were not killed and still walk around, or somehow evolved to make the internet instead of Homo Sapiens.

[Therammo 6]

...And Hitler was killed in WWI; or he won WWII by not invading Russia;

or he was killed in 1943 by operation Valkyrie and his much smarter generals took over;

or USA wanted to defeat Russia and England and joined the Nazis;

or the Nazis built the A-bomb first;

or Napoleon had won;

or the Roman Empire never collapsed;

or Columbus' ship had sunk...

...or the meteor had missed Earth, thus, the dinosaurs were not killed and still walk around, or somehow evolved to make the internet instead of Homo Sapiens.

exactly

[StarMountainKid 7,589]

Heard of dimensions before? Or maybe I already lived before this life, or my next life will be ?

Then there is an eternal personal ego' that is always you? Then all the other 'you's' are not really you, especially if they exist at the same time as 'you' but in alternate universes. I think my question still remains unanswered.

[Therammo 6]

Then there is an eternal personal ego' that is always you? Then all the other 'you's' are not really you, especially if they exist at the same time as 'you' but in alternate universes. I think my question still remains unanswered.

you know what molecules can exist at diffirent places same time ?

[StarMountainKid 7,589]

you know what molecules can exist at diffirent places same time ?

Okay, but if you exist in different places at the same time, which one is the 'you' you are conscious of right now? And why this 'you' and not some other 'you'?

[Therammo 6]

Okay, but if you exist in different places at the same time, which one is the 'you' you are conscious of right now? And why this 'you' and not some other 'you'?

What if Im conscious right now in this dimension, and ALSO conscious at same time there?

[StarMountainKid 7,589]

What if Im conscious right now in this dimension, and ALSO conscious at same time there?

That would imply two separate consciousness. If somehow both 'you's' could meet, would both consciousnesses meld into one? Or, would you be you, and the other you appear as someone else?

[Therammo 6]

That would imply two separate consciousness. If somehow both 'you's' could meet, would both consciousnesses meld into one? Or, would you be you, and the other you appear as someone else?

They cant meet eachother, dimensions cant meld.

[StarMountainKid 7,589]

They cant meet eachother, dimensions cant meld.

Probably not. Then there's "Quantum Suicide and Immortality". In which it is impossible to die, as , in effect, you are always alive in some alternate universe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_suicide_and_immortality

[spacecowboy342 2,324]

Actually if everything is infinite and eternal, that means that anything you can imagine will or has already occured. http://en.wikipedia....key_theorem <<<<< please read this.

I think, not only will every possible outcome happen but will happen an infinite number of times. This is near mathematical certainty. This is true, not only in the multiverse scenario, but if this universe is infinite

[Therammo 6]

Probably not. Then there's "Quantum Suicide and Immortality". In which it is impossible to die, as , in effect, you are always alive in some alternate universe.

http://en.wikipedia....and_immortality

Yeah that link actually is answer for your question..

I think, not only will every possible outcome happen but will happen an infinite number of times. This is near mathematical certainty. This is true, not only in the multiverse scenario, but if this universe is infinite

yeah. but in this case Im talking about infinity, not only our universe.

[spacecowboy342 2,324]

Yeah that link actually is answer for your question..

yeah. but in this case Im talking about infinity, not only our universe.

Right. But my point is that in an infinite universe everything is equally likely and probability goes out the window. I'm not sure if infinities can exist in nature or if they are just mathematical constructs

[regeneratia 1,554]

Last estimate I read is that there have been 103 different dimensions found, a theory, I believe. Wish I could remember where I read it. Some physics site.

Implicate.

Explicate.

Fractal.

Amazing.

Edited June 4, 2014 by regeneratia

[regeneratia 1,554]

I think, not only will every possible outcome happen but will happen an infinite number of times. This is near mathematical certainty. This is true, not only in the multiverse scenario, but if this universe is infinite

I am sure that I know far less than you. But metaphysics says that every decision that you make, there is a new dimension that splits off and lives the option that you didn't take, with a speck of you in it. There are at least three different unrelated sources for this concept, different people reaching the same conclusions in far different lives.

Edited June 4, 2014 by regeneratia

[StarMountainKid 7,589]

I think an infinite number of 'you's' would only be possible if the many worlds interpretation is correct. If there are just an infinite number of universes, it would be logical to assume there would also be an infinite number of universes without you in any of them.

Infinity is a strange concept, as in an infinity of universes, as I say, there would be an infinite number of universes with various 'you's' in them, and an infinite number of universes without any 'you's' in them.

In fact, there would be 'more' infinite number of universes without you, as 'you' would be a special case, an infinite subset of all universes.

Edited June 4, 2014 by StarMountainKid

[spacecowboy342 2,324]

I am sure that I know far less than you. But metaphysics says that every decision that you make, there is a new dimension that splits off and lives the option that you didn't take, with a speck of you in it. There are at least three different unrelated sources for this concept, different people reaching the same conclusions in far different lives.

Sounds like the "many worlds" theory in quantum mechanics. A valid idea but it seems implausible to me that a different reality would be created for each of the quintillion or so differences caused by the jostling of a glass of water.

[Nighthawk9653 213]

Yes, the problem with this theory is, in other life or dimension you have aids, and you are imprisoned and tortured while you get sexually abused. Dont get me wrong, but everything that has a possibility will happen. And this thought just makes me sick and mad..

Yeah, but that same possibility can happen in the original theory you posted and wrote about. So.. They essentially are the same theory, just laid out differently.. In the end, the theories we have all end up with every possibility playing out.. Which includes, even in your theory, that there will be AIDS, torture, sexual abuse, and whatever other possible horrible thing that can ever happen to you. But in the same way, every great and amazing thing can happen to you too. It would be possible, if you followed the right path, to experience an incredible existence, full of just awesomeness. And in the same way, you could follow a different path and live an existence of torture.