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‘Anti-homeless’ spikes outside London flats


Still Waters

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How about -£9000 total income and £2500 and 4 weeks of my own time dedicated to building accommodation and schooling for those who don't have it. I believe that works out as infinite %.

It's exaggeration to prove a point. Apparently goes over some heads though.

Exaggeration does NOT prove a point, it shows a paucity of evidence and hyperbole - neither of which have substance in a debate or a discussion. IF, in your opinion, it "goes over some peoples heads" that is because what you are saying is not to be trusted, cannot be checked for verification, and most certainly denigrates your assertions to those of a Politically Correct, sound-bite replay, that is is simply untrue.

I would be very interested in what "schooling" you build, because the last time I checked, all school building is under the auspice of the Local Authorities.

My contribution is not limited to monetary contributions, I also spend time to offer Programme and Project management (which I can do remotely), also fund raising, just stuff that I can do, when I have time available.

Tell you what, come up with a plan that might work to get indigents off the street, get those unwilling to work to actually contribute to society, to get people off the never - ending spiral of robbing taxpayers of their money (the vast majority of folk pay taxes to support their lifestyles).

be positive, COME UP WITH AN ALTERNATIVE.

Edited by keithisco
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Typical liberal wishy-washy outrage. Humbug and Hypocrisy.

You'd think differently if the "homeless" where sleeping in YOUR gardens.

Personally, not only would I plant spikes, I'd put 10,000 volts through them. :w00t:

Edited by RoofGardener
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some websites dealing with causes of homelessness.

http://www.homeaid.o...of-homelessness

http://www.nationalh...sheets/why.html

http://www.portlandr...f-homelessness/

https://www.dosometh...en-homelessness

p.s. to those of you talking down at addicts and the mentally ill: hi!

All of your links go back to the USA... this is UK and Europe thread...

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All of your links go back to the USA... this is UK and Europe thread...

you're right, sorry about that. here are some uk sources

http://england.shelt...es_homelessness

http://www.streetsof...ut-homelessness

https://www.gov.uk/g...ness-statistics

the general causes, however, are fairly common throughout the world.

Typical liberal wishy-washy outrage. Humbug and Hypocrisy.

You'd think differently if the "homeless" where sleeping in YOUR gardens.

Personally, not only would I plant spikes, I'd put 10,000 volts through them. :w00t:

nope. i know people who are homeless. i have friends who are homeless. i've been very close to it myself. i may still end up homeless one day.

i have no problem with the homeless. that's your deal.

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you're right, sorry about that. here are some uk sources

nope. i know people who are homeless. i have friends who are homeless. i've been very close to it myself. i may still end up homeless one day.

i have no problem with the homeless. that's your deal.

Thank you, I have read the sources you provided and still they all seem to be self-inflicted to a greater or lesser extent. It does not detract in any way to the constitution of housing, food, education, and clothing being provided in return for a fair day's work. The rest of us get on with our lives, pay taxes, educate our children, and there is only so much the taxpayer will accept to help those who bring homelessness onto themselves either through indigence, drug abuse, anger management issues etc.

I have no problem with the homeless, but they have avenues through which this situation can change, it is not my reason to be to continually pay out from my taxes for these people if they will not help themselves.

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the sources i provided explain that a signficant cause of homelessness in young people and women is domestic and sexual abuse. would you really call that self-inflicted? is mental illness self-inflicted?

the fact that you divide the population into the homeless and "the rest of us" only shows ignorance.

either way, we aren't going to agree. i do not care if is self-inflicted to any degree. i think that people who are suffering should be given the help that they need.

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you're right, sorry about that. here are some uk sources

http://england.shelt...es_homelessness

http://www.streetsof...ut-homelessness

https://www.gov.uk/g...ness-statistics

the general causes, however, are fairly common throughout the world.

nope. i know people who are homeless. i have friends who are homeless. i've been very close to it myself. i may still end up homeless one day.

i have no problem with the homeless. that's your deal.

Been there, done that, slept in my car for 12 weeks.

I have no problems with the homeless, I just don't want them on my lawn. And - be honest - neither do you.

You say that you have friends who ARE homeless (current tense). If that is so, why don't you invite them around ?

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I mean absolutely no offence to seaturtlehorsesnake and the others who have no problems with homeless people, but it really sounds to me like the ones you have are of a different sort than the ones where I live. A lot of the homeless people I deal with on a day to day basis are downright terrifying. It is common to see them harassing people, insulting and/or threatening them. I have had times where, after refusing to give them money, homeless people have followed me, screaming threats at me. One once tried to force his way into my car while I was stopped at a red light. I have been robbed by a homeless person, and a friend of mine was just recently physically attacked by one.

So yes, I do have a problem with homeless people, but these spikes are ridiculous. An incredibly crude method that only deals with the problem superficially. I would think it would be much better for cities just to put more money into care facilities for them, ones that actually try to get them of the streets, or even mental hospitals (or whatever they're called these days).

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Been there, done that, slept in my car for 12 weeks.

I have no problems with the homeless, I just don't want them on my lawn. And - be honest - neither do you.

You say that you have friends who ARE homeless (current tense). If that is so, why don't you invite them around ?

because they live anywhere from 500 miles to over 1000 miles away. if they were here, and needed a place, it would be open. i've done it before, and will do it again.

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They are nowhere near 17 - inches long! from the photos they are no more than 1,5 inches long and blunt.

There are seventeen, one inch long spikes.

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I mean absolutely no offence to seaturtlehorsesnake and the others who have no problems with homeless people, but it really sounds to me like the ones you have are of a different sort than the ones where I live. A lot of the homeless people I deal with on a day to day basis are downright terrifying. It is common to see them harassing people, insulting and/or threatening them. I have had times where, after refusing to give them money, homeless people have followed me, screaming threats at me. One once tried to force his way into my car while I was stopped at a red light. I have been robbed by a homeless person, and a friend of mine was just recently physically attacked by one.

So yes, I do have a problem with homeless people, but these spikes are ridiculous. An incredibly crude method that only deals with the problem superficially. I would think it would be much better for cities just to put more money into care facilities for them, ones that actually try to get them of the streets, or even mental hospitals (or whatever they're called these days).

mental hospitals aren't necessarily a solution for some people. adequate and affordable mental health care in general might be a start, but that's the sort of thing people in this thread have been arguing against. they don't want to pay for it.

i have been harassed before, any number of times. it's awful, and i'm very sorry that that has happened to you. i have been in similar situations, and it's terrifying. i'm not trying to present things otherwise. but i am saying that these things are also not unique to the homeless community, nor are they representative of everyone in it. and personally, i have also been harassed by completely "ordinary" people a lot, more so than by any other group.

no insult to you meant. no one should be made to feel unsafe in their lives. and that includes everyone.

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I agree the spikes are more then just a bit much. There should be many better ways to prevent homeless from finding your entranceway a good place to sleep. Why is that space there to begin with? It's now basically unusable anyway.

Maybe put a rock garden in there....

We have a lot of homeless here in Portland, and it gets so bad in the Summer that most everyone I know (especially those with kids) avoids the part of town they congregate in, and that area seems to be suffering, dying, slowly. I agree something has to be done, but you can't just throw them into a camp. Portland already tried creating specific camping areas for the homeless and most of them went there for a short time and then returned to their old haunts. The issue is not simple, since many of these people actually seek to live this way. When given housing that requires responsibility they quickly leave and go back to the street.

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I mean absolutely no offence to seaturtlehorsesnake and the others who have no problems with homeless people, but it really sounds to me like the ones you have are of a different sort than the ones where I live. A lot of the homeless people I deal with on a day to day basis are downright terrifying. It is common to see them harassing people, insulting and/or threatening them. I have had times where, after refusing to give them money, homeless people have followed me, screaming threats at me. One once tried to force his way into my car while I was stopped at a red light. I have been robbed by a homeless person, and a friend of mine was just recently physically attacked by one.

So yes, I do have a problem with homeless people, but these spikes are ridiculous. An incredibly crude method that only deals with the problem superficially. I would think it would be much better for cities just to put more money into care facilities for them, ones that actually try to get them of the streets, or even mental hospitals (or whatever they're called these days).

I can back him up on that a bit. Where I come from there are regulations about aggressive panhandlers which seems to work, but a few years ago I crossed the border and could not believe how aggressive, rude and intimidating some of the bums were. It was a bit freaky.
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We tried spikes in the UK to deter pigeons from roosting on window ledges in the cities... it worked quite well for THEM.

Mind you - the pigeon problem in Nottingham has gone down dramatically since a couple of Peregrin Falcon's started nesting on the roof of the University building. There just aren't that many pigeons around anymore, and the ones that are tend to hide.

I wonder.......

Edited by RoofGardener
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I was homeless for 12 months through no fault of my own. My marriage and business failed virtually at the same time. I slept rough, mostly well away from people as it was humiliating and degrading. Sometimes people would walk past when I had bedded down and make the most horrible comments.

Apparently I should have been in a work house, shot or put in prison. Why executed or prison? What did I do wrong, I had committed no crime. As a homeless person you have no rights to anything, the worst was not being able to get medical care as a GP will not help without an address. I had a stomach ulcer which was agony and worsening from my living conditions.

Finally after nights in the open in sub zero temperatures it got so bad I actually fell unconscious. A kind passer by called an ambulance and I was admitted to hospital. From then on I finally got the help I needed. I was given a local authority flat that had been vacant for ages. I did the place up and found work within weeks.

People I met on the homeless scene often had health, alcohol or drug problems. There were also many like me who had just had a run of bad luck. Life expectancy is short, it was truly terrifying during the winter when you were literally afraid of falling asleep as you felt it would be touch and go if you actually would wake up or freeze to death in your sleep.

I never begged, made a nuisance of myself or trespassed. I was still considered the scum of the earth, even sleeping in parks I would often get a visit from the police because of complaints from locals an moved on.

We really should be ashamed of ourselves we allow people to freeze to death from sleeping rough in a country like this. Hiding the problem wont make it go away.

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I was homeless for 12 months through no fault of my own. My marriage and business failed virtually at the same time. I slept rough, mostly well away from people as it was humiliating and degrading. Sometimes people would walk past when I had bedded down and make the most horrible comments.

Apparently I should have been in a work house, shot or put in prison. Why executed or prison? What did I do wrong, I had committed no crime. As a homeless person you have no rights to anything, the worst was not being able to get medical care as a GP will not help without an address. I had a stomach ulcer which was agony and worsening from my living conditions.

Finally after nights in the open in sub zero temperatures it got so bad I actually fell unconscious. A kind passer by called an ambulance and I was admitted to hospital. From then on I finally got the help I needed. I was given a local authority flat that had been vacant for ages. I did the place up and found work within weeks.

People I met on the homeless scene often had health, alcohol or drug problems. There were also many like me who had just had a run of bad luck. Life expectancy is short, it was truly terrifying during the winter when you were literally afraid of falling asleep as you felt it would be touch and go if you actually would wake up or freeze to death in your sleep.

I never begged, made a nuisance of myself or trespassed. I was still considered the scum of the earth, even sleeping in parks I would often get a visit from the police because of complaints from locals an moved on.

We really should be ashamed of ourselves we allow people to freeze to death from sleeping rough in a country like this. Hiding the problem wont make it go away.

This ^

Thanks for posting it...not easy to write when it's all gone wrong :tu:

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I was homeless for 12 months through no fault of my own. My marriage and business failed virtually at the same time. I slept rough, mostly well away from people as it was humiliating and degrading. Sometimes people would walk past when I had bedded down and make the most horrible comments.

Apparently I should have been in a work house, shot or put in prison. Why executed or prison? What did I do wrong, I had committed no crime. As a homeless person you have no rights to anything, the worst was not being able to get medical care as a GP will not help without an address. I had a stomach ulcer which was agony and worsening from my living conditions.

Finally after nights in the open in sub zero temperatures it got so bad I actually fell unconscious. A kind passer by called an ambulance and I was admitted to hospital. From then on I finally got the help I needed. I was given a local authority flat that had been vacant for ages. I did the place up and found work within weeks.

People I met on the homeless scene often had health, alcohol or drug problems. There were also many like me who had just had a run of bad luck. Life expectancy is short, it was truly terrifying during the winter when you were literally afraid of falling asleep as you felt it would be touch and go if you actually would wake up or freeze to death in your sleep.

I never begged, made a nuisance of myself or trespassed. I was still considered the scum of the earth, even sleeping in parks I would often get a visit from the police because of complaints from locals an moved on.

We really should be ashamed of ourselves we allow people to freeze to death from sleeping rough in a country like this. Hiding the problem wont make it go away.

The homeless are like cold callers. Many are a nuisance, some are normal, but the nuisance ones gives the group its bad reputation. If you aren't a waste of space then why bother with what people are calling you? Onwards and upwards! When you are at rock bottom you can only rise.

I live in a deprived area of the UK where there's a lot of homeless. 95% are scum. We have major alcoholic problems, drug problems, crime problems and anti-social problems caused by them. Many have only known a deprived life and think how there are is normal with no intentions to better themselves. I admit that I look down on them and dont want them or the problems that come with them around where I live.

I realise there are the odd ex-soliders mixed in with them, people whose businesses went belly up, etc. Where I live they are a minority of the homeless. Most are druggies and criminals (usually both together).

Edited by RabidMongoose
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The homeless are like cold callers. Many are a nuisance, some are normal, but the nuisance ones gives the group its bad reputation. If you aren't a waste of space then why bother with what people are calling you? Onwards and upwards! When you are at rock bottom you can only rise.

I live in a deprived area of the UK where there's a lot of homeless. 95% are scum. We have major alcoholic problems, drug problems, crime problems and anti-social problems caused by them. Many have only known a deprived life and think how there are is normal with no intentions to better themselves. I admit that I look down on them and dont want them or the problems that come with them around where I live.

I realise there are the odd ex-soliders mixed in with them, people whose businesses went belly up, etc. Where I live they are a minority of the homeless. Most are druggies and criminals (usually both together).

Homelessness can lead to people getting drug and alcohol problems that they didn't have before. I started to drink heavily out of shear frustration and boredom. Many people turn to drink and drugs when their lives take a down turn homeless or not.

Crime goes with territory, you have little to no money are cold and hungry. You still need the basics in life like anybody else but it is difficult to get help because as soon as they learn you have no address they claim they can't help.

I know for a fact that two of the people I use to talk too, and guided me on the best places to stay that you wont get into trouble are now dead. They weren't particularly old, maybe 30-35 but have died from being constantly exposed to the elements. They were not druggies or drinkers, just down on their luck. You never hear about the ones who die, it is hushed up to avoid embarrassment that this happens in a country that is pretty wealthy.

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Homelessness can lead to people getting drug and alcohol problems that they didn't have before. I started to drink heavily out of shear frustration and boredom. Many people turn to drink and drugs when their lives take a down turn homeless or not.

Crime goes with territory, you have little to no money are cold and hungry. You still need the basics in life like anybody else but it is difficult to get help because as soon as they learn you have no address they claim they can't help.

I know for a fact that two of the people I use to talk too, and guided me on the best places to stay that you wont get into trouble are now dead. They weren't particularly old, maybe 30-35 but have died from being constantly exposed to the elements. They were not druggies or drinkers, just down on their luck. You never hear about the ones who die, it is hushed up to avoid embarrassment that this happens in a country that is pretty wealthy.

I remember being in town and you get the odd homeless person, i remember throwing a few quid in this chaps box and this well dressed woman walking by me said he'll only spend it on Drugs or Alcohol. i replied to her well i don't think he's saving up for a fitted kitchen. - its a strange thing homelessness in our modern society. i've heard of homeless people getting help and eventually a flat and within months they are back on the street. i have to admit my first thought is its their own fault, they need to help themselves. but then there is a side of me which tells me there is more to the situations i simply don't understand, i like to think of myself as a strong minded independent person and being homeless would never happen to me - but then i've never hit rock bottom. when you read real life experiences like Skookum's i cannot comprehend what it would be like to hit rock bottom and how i would react. its maybe one of them things, we dont know how we'd react until we hit rock bottom. maybe there is potential homeless person in us all.

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They should be put in workhouses. I suspect that the behavioural and criminal problems a lot of them have would lead to them even ruining that opportunity.

Your reply mirrors my thinking, I agree with you.

are you going to pay for that?

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are you going to pay for that?

Why does anybody else need to pay for it?

Minimum wage minus their keep.

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Why does anybody else need to pay for it?

Minimum wage minus their keep.

Ok, I'm ignorant... Who does pay for workhouses? Does the workhouse come up with the money itself to pay minimum wage minus keep? Is the workhouse self-sustaining that way? Or is it government funding of the house so the house provides?

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and there it is folks..... the reason why we can't/won't stop global warming and will probably be extinct before 2100. We are an exceptionally selfish species who take joy in others misfortune. Wah wah wah they made a bad choice and they should suffer miserably until they succumb. Its only fair.

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Reality check - I don't think people are being honest here. It's not safe to invite strangers and weirdos onto your property. They're on the streets out of choice and are grown adults who've taken that route. The people owning the apartments are simply doing what most of you would do, protect your homes and families from trespassers.

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